[edwardb]

Seat Installation

Today I finished how I’m going to install the seats. I wanted to get this done before starting the cockpit insulation while it’s easy to see everything. Plus I need to sort out my heated seat wiring before spraying on the insulation. My normal method is to bury the wires in the corner of the floor/trans tunnel on each side. My previous builds have all been the standard Roadster seats where the bottom cushion swings up exposing the seat frame for easy access. Plus I haven’t done sliders before. Only bolted directly to the cockpit floor. With the Corbeau seats I showed earlier, no option for either. With them in place, it became very obvious reaching under the seats to install mounting bolts would be challenging if not impossible. Especially for the rear bolts. I decided to mount them with 3/8"-16 button head alloy steel screws from the bottom into the cockpit with nuts fixed to the slider frame. After looking at several options, decided to use 3/8"-16 weld nuts from McMaster (where else?) located and riveted to the frame. These: https://www.mcmaster.com/#90955a123/=1e1xnql.

So the challenge was to establish the locations for the mounting bolts, taking into account the seat positions, slider frames, and acceptable mounting locations on the chassis. There is a seat pan welded into the chassis. But how to find the proper locations? After staring at it for a while (I do that…) decided to make cardboard patterns for each side that exactly indexed to the slider frame on three sides and extended 6-8 inches out the front. Then with the seats in the appropriate locations, marked the position of the patterns with tape. They were out in front of the seats and could be reached. Then took the seats out and used the patterns to determine the locations of each mounting bolt. As it turned out, I was able to get 3 of the 4 into the seat pan on each side. But one (the front inside on both sides) needed to go through a frame rail.

With the locations determined, drilled the cockpit floor, matching locations in the slider frame, installed the weld nuts onto the frames, and a little while ago fit everything together. Success! I’m very happy with how this turned out, and will be relatively easy to install and remove since all four bolts are accessible from under the car. The nuts move around slightly in the retainers, so makes getting them started a little less critical. Once in and tight, the seats are rock solid. Both seats will slide forward six inches or so. But not sure how often that will be required. Even for me (5’10”) the rear position on the driver’s seat is fine. Basically the same exact distance from the steering wheel and pedals as my Roadster. Side note: These seats work very well for me (discussed before) but for taller builders may not be the best choice. Different seats could locate another couple inches at least further back than these. Another side note: Found the passenger seat was most comfortable turned slightly to the outside. The passenger footbox is slightly offset to the right, and found the seating was more comfortable slightly favored to that side. Barely noticeable. But makes a difference. And yet another side note, the seat location, the location of the underlying seat pan, plus the seat type I selected, all work together to make an anti-sub belt not practical. I'm looking right now at Schroth Profi II ASM belts. Designed to be 4-point while still providing anti-submarine function. Nice but pricey to say the least. Trying to sell my kit provided Simpsons if anyone is interested.

With that, some pictures. This is the pattern attached to the passenger seat and the resulting index marks after determining the desired location. Same process for the drivers side.

These are the two patterns (made from Ram Board, mentioned in a previous update) in their desired locations. Marked the location of the seat frame, tracks, underlying seat pan and frame rails, etc. From that, determined the four mounting locations for each side.

Slider frames with the holes drilled in the frame and cockpit floor, and all eight weld nuts installed. First time checking the fit and everything aligned. Whew! I did throw a little rattle can black on the weld nuts before riveting them in place. Not visible, but plain steel.

Seats installed now in their final locations.

One of the interesting challenges of the Coupe is climbing in and out. Efforts to date have been a little clumsy, to say the least. Today I learned (and am relieved!) that having the seats bolted down makes a big difference. Passenger side is relatively easy. Driver’s side would be easier without the steering wheel (I can see why some guys go with a removable wheel) but I can manage OK. Obviously it will also make a difference with the body, the doors, etc. But way easier getting in and out with fixed seats versus when they were loose and sliding around.

 

[2FAST4U]

Wow! This build is beyond awesome!

 

[edwardb]

Tires Received

Shortest update in my history. Heard from several sources that my planned BFGoodrich G-Force Rival S tires were in short supply. Have them on #8674 and am happy with them, so not interested in finding something else at this point. Took a few tries, but found the sizes I wanted at Tire Rack and today they're in my garage. P275/35ZR-18 for the front, P315/30ZR-18 for the rear. Will get them mounted and I'll have a roller.

 

[edwardb]

Roller and Harness

Another eventful week or so on the build. First up was finally finishing all the panel installations for now plus getting all the gaps and openings filled, e.g. around frame members, door hinges, etc. Lots of different products possible for gap filling. For #8674, with the special white and glimmer frame and panels, found a product called Marine-Tex Epoxy Putty. Just so happened to come in white and grey (very dark, almost black) so perfect for the Anniversary Roadster build. The stuff’s been around for a long time I guess. I really like how it worked, so went back to that product on this build. Used the grey which blends well with the gloss black frame and dark grey powder coated panels. I mentioned before that where I pre-installed the sound and heat insulation, I left the products long where there were gaps and openings to fill. That worked perfect as a backer for the Marine-Tex. Mostly it’s kind of like caulking a bathtub or whatever. Except I use masking tape to keep it from going everywhere. Process: Mask around the area, glop in the filler, smooth with precision digit (e.g. my finger), and pull the tape. Little tedious, but everything is done. Also I installed the seat heater wires. As I've done before, glued into the inside corners of the cockpit and up the footbox tunnel on each side. They're be buried by the insulation and carpet. Next step is to spray Lizard Skin, which I plan to start next week. The usual process. Multiple hours masking, minutes to spray. I’ll do the sound product on one day, and the heat product on the second.

In the meantime, couple other updates. I showed my new tires in a previous post. Today I was able to get them mounted, balanced, and on the chassis. As always, a bit of a story. For #8674, I had the same exact rims and almost the same tires. Took them to a tire store that was highly recommended. They immediately got hung up on the valve stems and tried quite unsuccessfully to install bolt in stems and scratched up one of the rims in the process. I’ve posted about this a couple times before. After a call to Factory Five, right from the store, received instructions to use plain old TR413 rubber pull through stems. With a little lube and a twist, installed fine. They got the job done, but I wasn’t too happy with them and I think they were happy to see me go. Obviously, wasn’t interested in going back this time. Took the tires and rims to my local big chain tire store. The guy there was very friendly and helpful, but didn’t want to install the tires because of the rims. They don’t have touchless equipment, and he pretty much promised they would scratch the rims. So did some more checking and ended up at a high-end shop that our club visited a couple years ago. They’re used to Ferrari’s, Lambos, Bimmers, etc. but were happy to do mine. They have a nearly new Corghi touchless tire wheel mounting machine (made in Italy, approved for Ferrari ) and also a pretty new and modern Hunter Road Force wheel balancer. When I explained about the TR413 valve stems (didn't want to repeat that problem again...) the guy immediately understood and said "Yea, just like a Ferrari." Have to like that. Got to watch the whole time, which I found very interesting and the guy doing the work was super careful. For a couple of the tires, he broke the bead and rotated the tires on the wheels to reduce the balance weights required. It worked. Nice. The price was less than the quote I had from the big chain store. Got them home and mounted. Now we’re getting somewhere. Finally a roller. The 275's in front look like they're going to fit just fine.

Another open topic has been the seat harnesses. Of course my kit came with the usual Simpson 5-point harness I’ve used previously and most other builders do as well. I’ve always used the 5th anti-submarine belt on previous builds. For some seats and some installations, they don’t fit too well and people leave them out. Not a good idea IMO. Early on I realized the Corbeau seats I selected weren’t going to play nice with the anti-submarine belt. Plus where the seats ended up the steel seat pan wasn’t available for mounting. Early in the build thread another forum member suggested I look at Schroth Profi ASM harnesses. Over the last couple of weeks I did and short version, have them and test mounted. These are designed to be 4-point and still provide anti-submarine protection. Their website shows how it works, crash tests, etc. Pretty interesting. Shopped around and found the best price for their Schroth Profi II ASM FE product. These have a Push-Button Cam lock which is really nice. Note they also have to be sided. So there is a different part number for the driver and passenger side. They come in several colors. I chose red. Big surprise. Now I’m fully committed. Mocked them up today and I’m very impressed. I’ll do the wrap on the roll bar when it’s time for final assembly. I was able to sell my NIB Simpsons for a decent price on the forum, so that helped offset some of the cost. But they still needed another chunk of change. They’re very high quality, made in Germany, and not cheap to say the least. Once again, what budget? Couple pics:

Checked in with my contact at Ford Performance again earlier this week. Still very promising the Gen 3 crate Coyote will be released to the general public by the end of August. Looks like the timing is going to work as I’ve been hoping. Tomorrow is the Woodward Dream Cruise here in SE Michigan, projected at 1 million participants and more than 40,000 cars of every shape and size. If you're a car person, you probably would like it. If not, it's just one big giant traffic jam and loud party. Many that don't participate leave town this week. Too bad. Our club has an event right in the heart of everything with lots happening. Weather looks promising, so looking forward to it as always.

 

[JimS]

Looking Good!

 

[edwardb]

Lizard Skin

Today I finished spraying Lizard Skin heat and sound insulation and got everything de-masked. There’s no sugar-coating it. Lizard Skin is a lot of work. I really like the final result, so stayed focused on that. Takes a while to get everything properly masked, then two separate days of spraying (24 hours between the sound and heat products), then clean everything up. I’ve done the previous Roadsters in my garage. Even though I was careful, and spread lots of drop clothes, still managed to sling the stuff all over the place including on the walls on the other side of the garage. The undercoat gun used for this application, along with the jelly like viscosity of the material, makes it interesting. So this time I chose to spray outside on my driveway on a great big tarp. The backdrop was the woods along the side of my driveway. So not too worried about that. Was a good plan until zero chance of precipitation turned into a shower just as I was pushing the finished chassis back into the garage. Didn’t hurt anything but would have been a disaster if 20-30 minutes earlier.

As far as the actual process, I followed Lizard Skin’s instructions, as I have before. I did a write-up a few years ago. Pretty much followed my own recommendations. https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fa...forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/342954-lizard-skin-application-experience.html. The Coupe is a little challenging, as I’ve mentioned before, because of the number of panels that don’t get installed until after the body is on. Plus there’s the roll cage to mask off. In a previous update, I described using stick-on materials in the footwells. So the Lizard Skin application was the balance of the cockpit, the hatch area, and the loose pieces to be installed later. I sprayed two coats of sound material on everything yesterday.Then 2 coats of heat material in the cockpit and loose cockpit parts and one coat in the hatch area and loose hatch parts. I’ve got just enough left over from the 2 gallon bucket of each product to spray the body headliner area. Would like to cut down on sound and mostly heat by spraying there when I get to body work.

That’s about it. Here are a bunch of pictures. First scuffed up my nice pretty powder coat where the Lizard Skin would be applied. Before anyone questions, the other side in all cases is still shiny new powder coat and in my world is showing. I used stretch wrap film around the roll bars. That worked pretty well and I think was easier then a lot of masking tape or paper. At the last minute, decided to also put some stretch wrap film around my brand new tires since they would be rolling around where I was spraying. Glad I did. They picked up a lot of overspray material. The rest of the masking was the usual mixture of tape, paper, etc. Those are the wires for my heated seats that are wrapped and hanging out of the way.

Out on the driveway while spraying:

 

[edwardb]

Lizard Skin (continued)

Finished product. You can kind of see where the rain drops hit. May go away once it’s completely dry. Or not. Don't think it's an issue.

Now onward to electrical, engine, etc. And finally can start leaving things in once installed.

 

[Gbeck]

Nicely done!

I'm really impressed by how neat, tidy and well thought out your work is!
The Lizard Skin application is a good example. I didn't mask as thoroughly as you did, expecting this fairly heavy material to drop to the ground. Instead, it wafted in the air and got on everything!
Your application is neat and consistent. Don't sweat a few rain drops!
Experience shows. Thanks for sharing!

 

[edwardb]

Gen 3 Coyote in the House

Look what showed up in my garage workshop today.

If you've been following this build thread, no secret my goal has been to use the new Gen 3 Coyote crate. Over the months I’ve been following the progress closely as Ford Performance prepared for its release. I was able to establish a contact at Ford Performance who has been very gracious to let me know the status whenever I asked. They are still a couple weeks away from general public release. But late last week I was given the opportunity to purchase a Gen 3 engine and control pack in advance of the general release. Working through a dealer I completed the deal. No surprise the Gen 3 is more expensive. Yesterday the control pack was delivered. Today the engine itself. I’m just starting to digest the new instructions and what differences I’ve uncovered so far. But thought I'd throw some pictures out there. My plan right now is to drop just the engine into the Coupe chassis, like I did with #8674, to determine and finalize the best routing and layout for everything. I’ll get going on that right away.

The control pack is pretty similar to the Gen 2. Same PDB and a lot of the same connections. Same exact DBW pedal. Just one clutch switch like the later Gen 2’s. Combined ODB2 plug and MIL also like later Gen 2’s. And also simpler power connection, also as I believe is on later Gen 2’s. Differences I’ve noticed so far: The overall harness is much simpler and shorter than the early Gen 2 I have in #8674. Should fit without a lot of extra. The pigtail connection has been slimmed down to just three wires. Fuel pump, start sense, ignition sense. Still no tach wire. I asked Ford about this and they told me starting in 2015 the PCM’s didn’t have a proper tach signal for aftermarket gauges. So back to tapping one of the coil wires like before. The O2 sensors have their own harness. Unlike the Gen 2 that were attached to the engine. The instructions describe setting the fuel regulator at 65 PSI vs. 55 on the previous models. I’m guessing because of the added direct injection? But it has its own pump on the engine. Who knows. One big difference is the Bosch PCM vs the Continental PCM from before. My old company lost the contract I guess. I didn’t put the two side-by-side. But it does appear slightly larger. From what I hear at Ford Performance, a lot going on there compared to before with the additions to the Gen 3. I’ll describe more as I learn more and proceed with the installation. But here’s a pic with the parts received. The stock air box pieces are still in the box. Other than the MAF sensor, nothing usable. Too bad.

The engine itself I’d seen before at Autorama and also posted pictures. But a little different now that it’s actually in my garage. Not a lot to say at this point since I literally just unwrapped it a couple hours ago. Nice to see Ford shipped it with a proper engine cradle vs. blocks on the skid. Some new plumbing to figure out. Looks like the CMCV setup is plumbed differently. That was a subject of a bunch of forum posts with the Gen 2. Looks like we’ll get to start that again! Obviously the top of the heads are now completely covered with wiring, plumbing, etc. because of the DI. Most have seen the new UFO looking engine cover for the Gen 3. Will think about what to do after it’s in the chassis. One major thing I noticed, and I hadn’t learned about this before, is that the 2018 Mustang manual setup has a dual mass flywheel and twin disc clutch. You can see the different flywheel in the pics. Will have to figure out what this means. Nice upgrade, but hopefully doesn’t affect my already on-hand QuickTime bell housing and Tilton hydraulic throw-out bearing. I purchased the Coyote engine lift brackets offered on the forum by TD Motion. Decided those would work better than the homemade ones I used before. Just bolted them on and they fit perfectly. Here are pictures and will provide more updates later as I dig into it.

 

[edwardb]

Gen 3 Coyote Fitment

Have spent some hours since checking how things fit after receiving the Gen 3 Coyote yesterday. This is where the excitement of doing something new meets with reality. Still a long ways to go, but thought I’d post what I’ve learned so far. Some things seem OK. But a couple of challenges. Open to suggestions here!!!

First the good. Energy Suspension motor mounts, QuickTime bell housing, A/C compressor, Moroso oil pan bolt pattern, all fit OK based on actual assembly check. Exhaust headers, starter motor, alternator, location for KRC power steering, radiator and heater and PCV hose locations and connections all LOOK exactly the same comparing to the Gen 2 Coyote in #8674. Obviously I’ll be checking with real parts once received. But looks OK for now. I’ll also mention I studied the vacuum connections on the CMCV setup, and it appears to be connected to a vacuum source right from the factory. I'll need to confirm, but looks like this won’t be something that needs to be addressed on the Gen 3. This has tripped up and confused a lot of builders before. Now hopefully no longer. I removed the oil cooler, like was necessary before. That also is exactly the same needing the shorter oil filter adapter. I also learned from my last build and caught all the oil in a brand new 5 gallon plastic pail with a sealing lid. Just over 2-1/2 gallons drained out. I’ll put it back in once the engine is installed. That’s $50 or so of 5w-20 synthetic oil that I didn’t make allowances to save the last time. Lesson learned.

Now for the challenges. I’ve uncovered two (so far…) and both are relatively significant.

1. The dual mass flywheel (already installed from the factory) and twin disc clutch (purchased separately) new with the Gen 3 Coyote will NOT work with my already purchased QuickTime bell housing and T-56 transmission. The input shaft on the T-56 is 4.5625 inches from the face of the bell housing to where the shaft would be against the race of the pilot bearing. With the QuickTime RM-8080 bell housing on the engine, that same distance with the dual mass flywheel is 3.375 inches. A difference of 1.1875 and no possible way to work. The RM-8080 bell is the only option for the Coyote + T-56 combination at this time. The GM version of the T-56 (the only other one available) is almost an inch longer input than the Ford version I have. So no relief on either front right now. My plan at the moment is to remove the dual mass flywheel and replace with a M-6375-M50 billet flywheel like I used on #8674. I’m HOPING the crankshaft has the same 8-bolt connection underneath the currently installed dual mass flywheel and the usual pocket for the pilot bearing. The bolts are large Torx heads that I don’t have a bit for. I’ll get to the store tomorrow and get them off. Holding my breath. I’m happy with the Ford Performance billet flywheel and clutch (dual friction Centerforce part) in #8674, so as long as it fits I’ll be OK with it. Maybe the dual mass flywheel has some eBay or Craigslist value.

2. I was warned about this one, and turned out to be true. Like most everyone doing Coyote builds, I used the low profile Moroso 20570 with Moroso 24570 pickup on #8674. Had the same parts ready to go and now have found Ford has changed the oil pump on the Gen 3 Coyote. No longer uses a bolt-on pickup but instead a slip-in fitting that’s part of the new composite oil pan. Additionally, the new oil pan has the windage tray/pan gasket as part of the pan where it was separate before. Easy enough to buy and install the windage tray/gasket. Not so easy on the pickup. I just sent a message to Moroso asking if they have plans to offer a new/updated pickup. Not optimistic, at least in the short term, but see what happens. Might be possible to modify the current Moroso piece, but haven’t studied that yet. Need to proceed with caution here as an improper connection would quickly destroy the engine. I'm going to leave the stock pan on the engine when I do my initial mock-up, so I'll see just how far it hangs below the frame. Expecting that to be a no-go, but I'll check. So no answer on this one yet. Here are couple pictures.

Current Moroso parts with Gen 3 oil pan.

Underside of Gen 3 engine showing new pump and pickup.

 

[edwardb]

Gen 3 Mock-Up Started plus Updates

Today I was able to get the Gen 3 Coyote into the Gen 3 Coupe chassis. All by myself. But then no flywheel, clutch, bell housing or transmission. Just the engine itself. So that’s cheating. I’ll definitely get help when it’s time to put the whole thing in. But this let’s me work on placement for everything in the engine compartment. Glad I’m taking this step because things are pretty tight.

What I learned today: In general, the fit isn’t as tight as the Roadster. It’s close to sheet metal in a few places, but nothing like the clearances in the Roadster. Exhaust header bolt access is pretty open on the passenger side, and all but the very back one on the drivers side also pretty accessible. For now I’m going to leave the original studs. The only one in question will be that back one on the DS. May shorten it or just use a regular bolt for that one spot. Oil filter is accessible. Without the factory cooler of course. Front dress on the engine (alternator, PS, A/C) all open and accessible. Starter motor also is fine. The direct injection (DI) pump on the PS head, discussed at some length in earlier posts, clears OK. Amazingly similar to the computer generated plots from Factory Five I posted. But the connector body attached to it was pretty hard against the top chassis rail as the engine was going down. So chose to move it out of the way to not damage anything. It’s a diaphragm style pump with a plunger that's actuated by the cam. With the two nuts removed, and the attached fuel line, lifts out of the way pretty easily. Once the engine is in, goes back together and clears everything just fine.

Over the next days I’ll be determining locations for the remaining components. I don’t see any choice but to put the PCM on the PS above the headers. Same as typically done with the Roadster. Will be congested over there with heat and A/C lines and components. But don’t see any other options. With the Roadster, it was necessary to remove the steering shaft when dropping in the Coyote. With this Coupe, not a hard interference point. I didn’t move it this time. But it’s a little bit in the way and will move it out of the way in the next round. The PDB will be somewhere on the firewall or foobox corners. Tight but should fit. Fuel pump regulator will be on the corner of the DS footbox. Not much else to say. Lots of work ahead now getting this done and as neat and orderly as possible.

Here are pictures from all sides. Similar to other builds with the Coyote engine. Just the added spaghetti from the Gen 3 Coyote.

As can be seen in the pics, the tops of the heads are above the frame rails. Without the coil covers as the previous Coyotes, all the wiring and plumbing is hanging out for all to see. Don’t think much can be done about that. I don’t think the Gen 3 cover with the wings over that area would help at all. In fact, I’m thinking would look pretty out of place. Still an open subject. Probably will only try to do something over the intake itself.

Speaking of open subjects, here’s an update on the two issues I raised in my previous post:

Incompatible Moroso oil pan pickup due to the different oil pump in the Gen 3 Coyote: Heard back from Moroso. They are planning to offer an updated pickup. But no timing was offered. I asked for possible timing in a follow-up. At this point I’m not too optimistic that’s going to be a solution in time for this build. After staring at it for a while and thinking about it, I’m pretty confident I can modify the existing Moroso pickup with some tubing and my friend the welder down the street. Tearing the engine down and changed back to the former pump is absolutely not in the cards.

Incompatible dual mass flywheel: Today I removed the factory provided dual mass flywheel. Would have had to do that anyway to install the QuickTime block plate. Even if it would have worked with my bell housing and T-56 transmission. As best I can tell, the end of the crankshaft is unchanged from the previous version. Maybe even the same part. I’m confident a regular Coyote flywheel can be installed along with a standard clutch. Planning the same parts as used in #8674 as already mentioned. The only thing missing is the pilot bearing. The one in the dual mass flywheel is different. But that’s a standard part (M-7600-C) so will get one along with the other parts and all should be good. I temporarily mounted the block plate and bell and checked the dimension compared to the input shaft of the T-56. It’s perfect. So this is nearing resolution. This is what it looked like under the dual mass flywheel with my QuickTime block plate. I had already purchased new flywheel bolts.

One other difference I noticed. There was another connection and device of some kind in addition to the oil pressure sensor. In the area of the oil filter. Removed the part and did a little digging. Turns out it’s an oil control valve, and appears to be used to route oil into the now removed oil cooler. Seems the F150 version of the Coyote has this valve, and now it’s on the Mustang version as well. Even though it’s not doing anything, I’m going to leave it in place just in case the PCM is expecting it to be there. Same for the oil pressure sensor. For later versions of the Gen 2, instructions were to remove the stock sensor and replace with the required unit for the dash gauge. Apparently the PCM wasn’t using this signal. I don’t know if the Gen 3 is the same, and at this stage might not be able to get a good answer. Simple solution is to leave it and T in the added sensor. Also note the little heat shields around the sensors. Several of those on the engine.

Still a long ways to go. But feel a lot better about this than I did at this time yesterday.

 

[dhuff]

Has it been confirmed that the dual mass flywheel isn't weighted differently than the Gen 2 to help maintain engine balance?

Thanks

 

[edwardb]

Has it been confirmed that the dual mass flywheel isn't weighted differently than the Gen 2 to help maintain engine balance?

Thanks

Good question. But the Coyote engines are internally balanced. They don't use imbalanced flywheels or harmonic balancers. I've seen the stock Coyote nodular flywheel, the Ford Performance billet steel flywheel and now this dual mass flywheel. None have had imbalance weights.

 

[edwardb]

Here we go with wiring and the rest

Spent some time today dragging parts out of the basement that had been mocked up before and started putting them where they’ll eventually stay. This is where the “One bite at a time…” saying has to be followed. There’s a lot to do but just go one step at a time. I’m feeling relieved I decided to drop the engine in for this stage. It’s tight plus a lot going on. I never would have been able to envision it (or get it right…) without that big chunk in there. Here’s what I’ve learned so far.

Mounted the radiator sheet metal and radiator/condenser. It will be coming off one more time to put the engine in permanently. But I wanted to check out the cool tubes from Boig now that I have the engine locations to aim at. Plus the routing of the upper and lower radiator hoses affects other things. Great news. Both of the Boig tubes fit perfectly! Bob promised they would, and he was right. I was mostly worried about that tiny window to get the lower hose through by the frame and sway bar. But it fits and the alignment to the engine is great. The upper hose also works out well with the cool tube and the control pack provided upper hose. The routing is excellent. Note I’m not using a T-filler since I’m using the Moroso Mustang pressure tank and Mustang hose routing. Same as #8674. Looks like the tank is going to fit in the center under the two cross pieces. Then the cold air intake will fit over into the opening on the DS. Similar to how it’s done in the Roadster.

Draped the various wiring harnesses into their preliminary locations, including the main RF harness, the front RF harness, and the main Coyote harness + PDB. Tentatively I’m planning to put the PDB on the firewall above the DS footbox. Then route the main cable behind the firewall and break into the engine compartment by the PS footbox. That will keep the majority of the cable hidden plus take up a little of the slack. I put enough of the heat and A/C components in to see where they’ll be and have to avoid. I see no choice but to put the Coyote PCM on the PS side above the header area. Very similar to where it's typically installed in a Roadster, as I mentioned before. Will have to get creative with some type of mounting bracket.

These pictures are just overall of what it looks like now and what I have to get buttoned down. Wiring and related doesn't bother me. Actually kind of enjoy it. But it's easy to see why some get intimidated at this stage. It should look quite different when done.
 

One final comment about a prior subject. The dual mass flywheel that came with the Gen 3 Coyote. As already stated, I’m not going to be able to use it. Ford did make some changes to the MT-82 6-speed for 2018 that’s used in the Mustang to address some issues and make it better. Obviously at the same time they must have shortened the input to match this setup. Perhaps that new MT-82 will be an option some may want to consider for their Gen 3 Coyote builds. Just for grins though I put the now loose dual mass flywheel on a scale. That bad boy weighs 34 pounds. The previous Coyote’s nodular flywheel I measured at 29 pounds. The Ford Performance M-6375-M50 billet steel flywheel I have in #8674 and will now use for this build weighs 20 pounds. I’m not a fan of the real light aluminum flywheels for street drivers. But going the other direction to 34 pounds seems really heavy. I probably would have still used it if it fit. But not sure it’s the best for these builds. Comments from someone who knows more about this than me? (Wouldn’t take too much.)

We have a busy couple weeks coming up, including some time away. So this will probably be the last update for a bit. Plus I have a lot to do to make a dent.

 

[edwardb]

Gen 3 Coyote Installation Update

Was away for several days visiting family. But back home to work, plan, and spend money. Making some progress. Still a long way to go, but here’s where I’m at today.

Dual-mass flywheel: Removed because it won’t work for me, as described before, and have received the following parts, all from Ford Performance:

• M-6375-M50 Lightweight Billet 8 Bolt Flywheel
• M-7600-C Roller Pilot Bearing - High Load - 4.6L/5.4L/5.0L4
• M-7560-T46 Clutch Assembly 26 spline, 11.0 inches (Note: Centerforce dual friction with Ford branding. Nice clutch.)
• M-6397-B46 Pressure Plate Bolts and Dowels
• M-6379-C Flywheel Bolts

I don’t have everything assembled yet, and won’t until the engine is back out. But I’ve checked and measured everything and all appears to fit perfectly. Note as I mentioned before, this is the exact setup I have in #8674. So this just appears to confirm nothing has changed at this end of the Coyote once that dual-mass flywheel is removed. I mentioned before the 2018 Gen 3 Coyote also uses a twin disk clutch. Just to be clear, that doesn’t come with the crate motor. The previous Coyote crates didn’t include a clutch either. So no change there. The only difference in the shopping list above compared to previous Coyote versions is the pilot bearing and the flywheel. Previous versions already had a pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft. Now you have to add it. Previous versions had a nodular flywheel which many used. I did choose to upgrade to the lighter billet steel version listed above for #8674. So for me wasn’t a difference there. I’ll know for sure when it’s time to assemble all of the above, but I’m 99% confident this issue is resolved.

Moroso oil pickup tube: I heard back from Moroso a second time. First time they confirmed they knew their pickup tube wasn’t compatible with the Gen 3 Coyote. Said they would have an updated part sometime. I followed up asking “When?” and the answer was "TBD. No schedule at this time." So this will hopefully be a solution for other builders. But I’m not optimistic it will be for me. My plan now is to modify the existing pickup. I’ve just ordered a couple pieces of tubing from McMaster. I’m going to use the composite oil pan with the new style connection to make a fixture and cut/weld the old style Moroso pickup to fit the new pump and the Moroso low profile pan. I’m confident this will work fine. Will provide updates when completed.

Since the last update, received the Ford Performance M-8600-M50BALT 5.0 Alternator Kit, same as used on previous Coyotes. It fits fine. Also since the last update, have determined the location and method for mounting the PCM. I’m going to make a bracket that sandwiches it against the chassis tube in the location pictured previously. Will provide updates when completed. I’ve started the modification to the DBW module (accelerator pedal) and am using some ideas from another builder to re-use the existing pedal rather than the FFR supplied pedal piece. Looks like it’s going to work well. I’ll finalize that later when I have easier access to the footbox. One surprise (disappointment…) is that FFR put a nice mounting plate in the footbox that exactly matches the mounting screws on the Coyote DBW. Clearly they’re expecting lots of people to use a Coyote and DBW module. Unfortunately, it’s about 1/2-inch too high. Mounted in the holes provided, the connector for the DBW runs into the steering column. Easy enough fix to drill new holes. But missed it by that much… I've also decided to go with an Odyssey battery. The stock location is in the front, but height is somewhat limited by the steering rack. The Odyssey PC925T fits nicely. Same one recommended for the Hot Rod, and recommended by lots of builders. Small and relatively light.

New issues/findings: The throttle body on the Gen 3 Coyote appears to be another change. The inlet is the same diameter. But it’s angled UP 8-9 degrees more than the previous Coyotes. So some care is needed to use a right angle connector that turns down quickly because the underside of the cowl is already pretty close to the throttle body. The FFR listed Spectre parts, which I have in #8674, don’t look like they will fit. Both because of that and also because of the chassis bar in front of the engine. I’ve looked at a number of other aftermarket cold air intakes (Rousch, JLT, BBK, etc.) and doesn’t look like they’ll fit either. Granted one of my issues is I’m also trying to install the Moroso radiator pressure tank. So have to work around that too. After some research and lots of measuring, have ordered some parts from Treadstone Performance that I think (hope) will work. They just shipped so don’t have an update yet. But will when received and checked out.

Next finding, and last one for this update, is the famous Gen 3 Coyote engine cover. I went ahead and ordered one with the other parts listed above. Popped it on last night. First impressions are that it doesn’t look “too bad.” (Be nice when you see it. Remember what your Mother taught you. If you can't say anything nice...) But looks like the front outside corners of the “wings” hit the underside of the front cowl. Right now I’m just mocking up the location of the front cowl as best I can, so it’s possible it might barely fit when the cowl is actually installed. But it’s really close. The wings also really don’t do too much to cover up the wiring and tubing on the top of the heads. So my tentative plan for now is that I’m going to cut the wings off. I actually think it will look decent at that point. I do like the cleaner lines and sharper styling of the new cover compared to previous versions. With it cut off (I added lines in the picture below to show where I’m thinking to trim it) it will cover up some things and I think look OK. Probably will get some kind of custom painting on it like #8674. Without the wings, I also think it will clear the underside of the cowl. I’m not going to do anything with the cover for now. Will wait until I’m further along to cut and finish. But that’s the initial idea/impression. And just in case someone suggests changing the intake to something different (and better looking…) the Gen 3 stock intake is changed from previous versions and is getting great reviews in multiple tests. One of many changes making the Gen 3 closer to the GT350. Some are even using it as an upgrade to previous Gen Coyotes. So changing the intake isn’t going to happen for multiple reasons. Here are pictures. Onward and upward.

 

[Tom Sharpe]

One final comment about a prior subject. The dual mass flywheel that came with the Gen 3 Coyote. As already stated, I’m not going to be able to use it. Ford did make some changes to the MT-82 6-speed for 2018 that’s used in the Mustang to address some issues and make it better. Obviously at the same time they must have shortened the input to match this setup. Perhaps that new MT-82 will be an option some may want to consider for their Gen 3 Coyote builds. Just for grins though I put the now loose dual mass flywheel on a scale. That bad boy weighs 34 pounds. The previous Coyote’s nodular flywheel I measured at 29 pounds. The Ford Performance M-6375-M50 billet steel flywheel I have in #8674 and will now use for this build weighs 20 pounds. I’m not a fan of the real light aluminum flywheels for street drivers. But going the other direction to 34 pounds seems really heavy. I probably would have still used it if it fit. But not sure it’s the best for these builds. Comments from someone who knows more about this than me? (Wouldn’t take too much.)

We have a busy couple weeks coming up, including some time away. So this will probably be the last update for a bit. Plus I have a lot to do to make a dent.

Just a quick comment or 2, Light flywheels make engines sound racier than they really are - sound like a really big cam with quick acceleration, etc. with the low gear of the 6 speed, it shouldn't be a problem. Also, Ford sells a Coyote + clutch + trans + wiring + ECU + pedal package - I would look for a gen3 version....:grin2:

 

[edwardb]

Just a quick comment or 2, Light flywheels make engines sound racier than they really are - sound like a really big cam with quick acceleration, etc. with the low gear of the 6 speed, it shouldn't be a problem. Also, Ford sells a Coyote + clutch + trans + wiring + ECU + pedal package - I would look for a gen3 version....:grin2:

Thanks for your comments. Couple of responses. I think there's a little more to flywheel weight than sound. But that's a moot point in this case because I already had the rather expensive QuickTime RM-8080 and Tremec T-56 purchased and on hand. Based partly on assurances from Ford that Gen 2 compatible parts would bolt right up to the Gen 3 Coyote. Plus it's an excellent and well proven combination for these builds. The different flywheel/clutch and resulting 1+ inch shorter input shaft on the Gen 3 Coyote was a surprise, to say the least, and is a very big deal. Changing out the flywheel as I'm describing here is the only choice at this point for me. I'm not unhappy about it at all. Just part of these builds, where surprises come up and you deal with them.

Ford Performance does sell a combo package like you're describing (M-9000-PMCM) which is the Gen 2 Coyote. Happens to use the exact bell housing and transmission I'm documenting here for my build. I've not seen or heard of a similar package for the Gen 3 Coyote. Likely it will happen at some point. But it will have to be a different bell and trans to use the OE Gen 3 flywheel and clutch setup.

Another option would be to obtain the full 2018 Gen 3 engine/manual trans setup like in a Mustang, either new or salvage. That of course would take these changes into account but would be the Getrag MT82 transmission. Some have used it successfully. But requires some mods and fabrication that are beyond my skill and interest level. Mainly having to relocate the shifter and adapt the driveshaft. Early versions of the MT82 were suspect. But later versions, and apparently upgraded again in 2018, are supposedly much improved. So definitely an option. Maybe when Ford Performance sells a complete package that's what they'll do. Who knows.

Bottom line is those that wait will no doubt have options beyond what I did here. It's fun and interesting to be an early adapter (sort of hmy but has its risks too.

 

[colorado_mustang]

Hey Edward, I've been following your thread(s) with a lot of interest and appreciation for them. I too have a 2018 Coyote Crate in the garage, though mine will be going into a 66 Mustang. T-56 magnum, etc.

Similar to you, I will need to swap the oil pan on mine, albeit with a front sump. I've been contacting aftermarket companies as well. Canton told me they were at least a year out. Moroso is saying to check in early next year. They say the pan will fit, but that they may update it along with the pickup tube for 2018.

Modular Motorsports has a 2018 pickup for the Shelby GT350 listed. (Site won't let me link yet) Model 403360. That might be a solution for you?

I also contacted Ford Performance. They're going to check with engineering and get back to me. The rep suggested swapping the oil pump for the 2017 version, but I'm hesitant to pull apart a brand new motor if I don't have to.

I'll be eager to see how you modify the pickup tube, as I'll likely have to do the same.

 

[edwardb]

Hey Edward, I've been following your thread(s) with a lot of interest and appreciation for them. I too have a 2018 Coyote Crate in the garage, though mine will be going into a 66 Mustang. T-56 magnum, etc.

Similar to you, I will need to swap the oil pan on mine, albeit with a front sump. I've been contacting aftermarket companies as well. Canton told me they were at least a year out. Moroso is saying to check in early next year. They say the pan will fit, but that they may update it along with the pickup tube for 2018.

Modular Motorsports has a 2018 pickup for the Shelby GT350 listed. (Site won't let me link yet) Model 403360. That might be a solution for you?

I also contacted Ford Performance. They're going to check with engineering and get back to me. The rep suggested swapping the oil pump for the 2017 version, but I'm hesitant to pull apart a brand new motor if I don't have to.

I'll be eager to see how you modify the pickup tube, as I'll likely have to do the same.

This is the pickup from MMR. Pickup tube for GT350 / 2018 + Oil Pump 403360. I'm not going to spend another $150 on the chance it might fit. I have the Moroso pickup and the pieces to modify. Will be the first thing I work on when I finish the mockup with the engine in the chassis. Hopefully in the next week or sooner. I agree, not a good idea to tear down a brand new engine and go backwards on the oil pump. Especially for that reason alone.

 

[colorado_mustang]

FYI Ford got back to me. The 2017 pump will bolt to the 2018 block, and a swap is their official answer for the time being. Sounds like we're on our own for a solution to this one.