Jack,

Hate to say this, but what you’re saying sounds like a spun bearing holding up the crank. If it turned with the starter but wouldn't turn by hand at the crank, it shows a great deal of drag in the rotating mass somewhere. Water in the cylinders would give you a hydraulic lock and the engine would stop turning very quickly. The only way to check this is to drop the pan and check the mains and rod bearings. First look for any evidence of heat on the main or rod caps. You'll know it when you see it. Good Luck...

 

Check to see if the starter is hung up(engaged then locked). A buddy of mine bought a mustang for $100 because the guy thought the motor was seized.
Cheers Ray

 

Do you have good connections? How long is your battery cable? You say your ground fries? This makes it sound like your connections are inferior. Whenever I had a bad ground connections, it would "fry". Try to start her up like normal, then check to see if your + or - cables are warm, if so, then they are too small/long.

 

I agree with Cleveland33 - sounds like you have a bad ground. Check the engine ground and the battery ground. I had the same problem and the engine was trying to ground through the throttle cable. New something ws wrong when smoke started rising from the throttle cable. Like a numbskull I grabbed the cable and still have the burn line acrosss my hand.

Henry

 

Pull the starter out and then see if you can turn the engine easily (with plugs out) via the crankshaft pully nut. If it turns easily, then the starter handing up any have been your problem.

 

Thanks everyone for responding! I'm sorry to say nobody so far had the right answer. Here is the update. 1. I checked the grounds and no prob there. I took the starter off (One day old) and could not turn the crank. I dropped the pan and took the crank journals and the rod caps off (the ones I could). There was no metal in the pan or around the drain plugs. The bearings are very good shape. Next, I removed the tranny to free up the crank. (removing the tranny in a Mark II is not fun, (I did one last week the night before the Tour de Vin run). Still the crank is stuck........I have another motor to put it in but that's to easy. I want this motor. Thanks again, Jack Stand I could use som more advice.

 

stuck rings ?

bent rod twisting the piston ?

valve train binding up ?

 

I hate to admit this, but...

I have seized a ford motor or two. Oops! As you are still in the destruction/reconstruction phase, try pulling the distributor off - easy enough. Reach down with needle nose pliers or a magnet and pull the oil pump drive shaft out. After that, try manually turning the motor at the crank.

I pulled a shaft out that had a 30 degree bend on one occasion and found a seized oil pump (driven by the bottom end of that very shaft) on another.

I hope you answer is that simple, as it would indicate no significant damage and be a $5 fix for a new shaft or $30 for a new oil pump.

Best of luck!

 

Jack,

The bug might have a point, but just remove the distributor. The pump shaft will be free of the distributor shaft and the distributor will be free of the cam gear. This will most likely rule out a seized pump, but not some thing wrong with the timing chain. Let us know what you find, this is a stumper. Just sorry it's causing such grief.

 

I'm working on the "stuck ring thing" right now. This repo tow guy that drops of orphin mustangs at wee hours of the morning on my lawn says he picks up cars that sit for 20 years that motors are stuck and he puts deisel fuel in a coke bottle with a small hose and injects it into the cylinders then lets it sit over night and claims it eats the rust enough to turn it over and start. We will see... Stay tunned. Jack stand

 

Jack Stand, You did not mention in your first post that this engine had not previously ran since you owned it, or that it has sat for some considerable period of time. If this is the case, then yes, the ring could easily be rusted.

 

Lesson from the past:
20% Diesel (if I remember )in the gas was the trick that my engine building journey man taught me, after a rebuild.

His reasoning was that it provides more upper cylinder lube during that very first run of a new engine. ?? Watching him do it on the engine stand (Coke Bottle above the carb for a gravity fed gas tank), with the 4 cylinder we had just rebuilt, it smokes a little bit, but engine ran just fine.

As my time with him was limited to 6 weeks (as part of a Summer mandatory 1st year engineering practical) I never ever used it myself.

 

jackStand> I am now confused. To quote you from your original pos..."When I turn the key to start, the motor seems to be locked up and the motor ground fries. I removed all the spark plugs and I got the motor to turn over until the battery went dead. I tried to turn the crank with a wrench at the pully but it is locked up."

OK, in the first sentence you could not get the starter to turn the motor, Right?
Now in the second sentence you removed the spark plugs and was able to get the starter to turn the motor over until the battery went dead, Right?
Last, you tried to turn the motor via the crankshaft with a wrench and could not, right?

If I have understood all 3 sentences, your problem can not be stuck rings or a locked up motor as you got it to turn over with the starter with the plug out. Am I understanding correctly? What happend now if you take out the plugs and try the starter? Will it turn the motor over? If not, what changed from your second sentence above?

 

Bill, The car came from a TOW YARD AS A THEFT RECOVERY. mY GUESS IT SAT FOR ABOUT 60 DAYS. There was no evidense of abuse to the car. Items taken off the car were selective that leaves me to believe it was not a joy ride event. Back to the ffr. Picture if you will: gocart in the driveway ready to start. We turn the ignition switch and the starter clicks only once, like its only engaging and not turning. I had cleaned the starter with paint thinner about two days proir. Since it is not turning the motor it apparently shorts and causes the braded engine ground to magneticly pull to the block and smoke. After a couple of tries it repeats the same.?? Starter shorting out i think. I take a continuity tester to the starter thinking the solvent had something to do with internal parts and the positive and neg show continuity. I go and get another starter.Then I'm thinking that while I was cleaning the motor I may have got water in the cylinders and may have locked it up that way, so I took the plugs out, put the new starter on and the motor turned over but no aparent water came out of any holes.I thought now I'm on the right road. I put the plugs back in and proceeded to crank it. Starter just engaged and no rotation. I took each plug out one at a time to see if I could isolate the cylinder that could be locking me up but it stayed locked up. After going through all 8, I wrenched it and it is so tight. Now the rest of the story is I have done everything that was suggested and a little more. All responses have been very good. This morning I took the dist. out and the pump stick to see if the oil pump froze but still I can't turn the crank with a wrench. Thanks again with all your help guys and I will keep it updated, jack stand

 

OK, so the engine would turn over OK with plugs out using the new starter. The fact that it turnover with plugs out indicates nothing internal to the engine is hanging up, otherwise it would not thun over at all.

Have you installed a second ground strap from a starter mounting bolt to a good frame point? Also, rechecked the Hot lead connections at all point from battery clear though to the starter? Also the battery grounds?

 

Jack,

We are all with you on this. No H2O in the engine, starter is OK, Trans is not a problem, no metal in the pan, looks like the cam should be OK if the Distributor gear looks OK. No seized bearings, looks like its some thing up front, timing chain, or maybe a sheared cam pin that locked up the cam and crank sprockets. Let us know how it goes. Bill32, it does sound like it did spin at the start of this,and all went down hill after that...?

[ June 12, 2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: hankl ]

 

Ridiculous question, but is it in gear?!?

 

this may be too stupid and simple to be the right answer. but i have been given incorrect plug from suppliers before. the plugs that were given were too long and protruded too far into the cyl. not letting the piston travel its entire stroke. so maybe the piston is hitting the plug electrode and causing your none spinning engine. again, this may be too easy to be true. that's my $.02, take it or leave it!

 

Hankl
I took the timing cover off and everything is ok. There is a little slack in the chain and can't turn the crank either way to take the tension out. I don't think this was the problem either. I took the valve covers off and everything is in its place and looks very good condition. This is really bumming me out...I know! I'll take my wife's cobra out and pretend its mine right now. "HONEY do you need anything from the store?" Be back soon, Jack stand

 

Jack,

The only thing to do is remove the timing chain, and see if the crank will turn on its own. If it doesn’t, there is somewhere, one bearing frozen. If the crank turns, then see if the cam will turn. It has to be in the rotating assembly somewhere. I know two guys, that if we didn't live so far away would be knocking on your door to help.

Just to let you know, we have built a lot of racing engines, they have on occasion, after a long season of wear and tear, with no blatant sign( high metal content in oil), decided to spin a bearing. So it has and can happen in a high mileage engine, but it is a very rare occasion. The only other thing that comes to mind is a broken ring. But doing the above test would eventually lead to that if it is the case.

[ June 13, 2003, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: hankl ]

 

Ray,2723 and Will,2724 came by and looked, ate pizza and a Dew, and told me what a loser I was to just put the other motor in it . We all were supposed to have the car done for the Amercan Graffiti in Modesto Saturday. Jeff, soon to order his car this week, was here and they all decide that I will know what the problem is when we take the motor out and put it on the stand. In the meantime, I'm going to get the other one ready and ray is going to help me install #2 on monday. Will is going to help with the body on Wednes and Jeff, my racecar buddy, will help too. Thanks for the offerings. I have met so many great people on this forum and the only down side is that many are to far away to visit. Saturday I will just take the wife's car (3025)to Motown and cruise. We do go to Santa Cruz often and will have to look you up.I'll keep everyone posted On Sunday as to what went wrong with the locked up motor. Jack stand

 

Jack,

How did Sunday turn out?

 

Did you check/replace the starter solenoid?

 

Jackstand:
Did you have your flywheel off or change from an auto to manual tranny? If you didn't find gold in your oil pan go look at the bolts you used fasten the flywheel to the crankshaft. It is very common pratice to install flywheel bolts that are to long and cause this problem. If the brg. were the problem you would have seen heat or a burn look on the crank.But not to turn at all ,you have some frozen pistons or the old bolt problem.Hope its bolts

 

the flywheel is the same one that came off the motor and the bolts are the same, however I did double check this. We are pulling this POS out tonight and checking it out. I have another moter we are putting in. Overall visual on this motor is good and that's why I just can't see anything obvious. A neighbor down the the sreet has blown up about 200 of these ford blocks( circle track fords for about 40 years) and we tried a couple of his tricks and ideas to no avail. After it comes out tonoght I'll post the results. After all the advice here, all that is left in the car is heads and block, chain is off, fly wheel off, dist. out, and still the crank will not forward our backward. See ya tonight with the news. Jack stand