Has anyone heard of a cobra being built using a S2000 chassis and drivetrain? I would think this would be ideal with the weight and strength of the Honda not to mention the power to cubic inch ratio of the motor. Any constructive comments would be appreciated. David
rothamd
I've driven the S2000.
With all due respect to the amazing S2000 engine, I would venture nobody would want to use one for a donor unless they were unconcerned about:
1. Correct sound from the side pipes
2. Low end torque ( enormous lack thereof )
3. Resale
4. Being blown away by a stock 302 powered FFR
5. Being razzed worse than Chevy powered FFR owners
Other than that, as has been said here in the past, it's your car. Build it like you want.
With all due respect to the amazing S2000 engine, I would venture nobody would want to use one for a donor unless they were unconcerned about:
1. Correct sound from the side pipes
2. Low end torque ( enormous lack thereof )
3. Resale
4. Being blown away by a stock 302 powered FFR
5. Being razzed worse than Chevy powered FFR owners
Other than that, as has been said here in the past, it's your car. Build it like you want.
I've also driven the S2000, great little car that feels pretty stiff and handles great.
I almost bought a wrecked one to pull the drivetrain and use it in a Datsun 510, that is as far I would take it, it would look, sound and perform wrong in a Cobra.
But if you have the money and tools GO 4 IT !
I almost bought a wrecked one to pull the drivetrain and use it in a Datsun 510, that is as far I would take it, it would look, sound and perform wrong in a Cobra.
But if you have the money and tools GO 4 IT !
I have an S2000. Actually, my second. Traded a 2000 (one of the first batch) for a 2004.
Let me put more details on this. If you are using an unmodified motor, you probably could use the drivetrain. If you modify the motor, and you can get over 350hp on pump gas NA, maybe 500 with forced induction, you would be better of sticking with TKO/T-5/T-56 transmission and 8.8" rear. I can't see how the frame and suspension would be a practical swap. The seats would be great though.
The sound would be different. The car would handle better. It would be very fast.
To understand why just look at VTEC. You have milk toast cams around town...just a strong 2L (or may be 2.4L modified). However you have full race cams when you push it to 8-10k revs (depending on bottom end and valvetrain).
If you build the motor out, only the fastest Cobras would beat your 2000# 350hp car with maybe a 46-54 or5 44-56 weight distribution.
Let me put more details on this. If you are using an unmodified motor, you probably could use the drivetrain. If you modify the motor, and you can get over 350hp on pump gas NA, maybe 500 with forced induction, you would be better of sticking with TKO/T-5/T-56 transmission and 8.8" rear. I can't see how the frame and suspension would be a practical swap. The seats would be great though.
The sound would be different. The car would handle better. It would be very fast.
To understand why just look at VTEC. You have milk toast cams around town...just a strong 2L (or may be 2.4L modified). However you have full race cams when you push it to 8-10k revs (depending on bottom end and valvetrain).
If you build the motor out, only the fastest Cobras would beat your 2000# 350hp car with maybe a 46-54 or5 44-56 weight distribution.
I don't think an s2000 has the guts to be transformed into a cobra. Just not fast enough. I've managed to keep my 02' mustang GT a leg up on them (right until we hit the corrners then they are rideing my butt waiting to pass). If you riced it up (not a mean term, just my term for tuneing a 4-banger) then it might have the power but still not the heart of a cobra.
As sergio says if its got your heart pounding go for it.
Eric.
As sergio says if its got your heart pounding go for it.
Eric.
Don't let what others think smite creativty. Have had dirty thoughts of useing their 6 banger w/vtech in one but can't find a tranny/bellhousing for manual rear wheel drive. in stock form it makes the wifes van haulass for a bus. take some weight away and juice it up a bit who knows Pat
The question still is why? The only advantage may be weight, why not just build somthing lighter all together?
As far a creativity, fine, but whats the point?
Its your car, build it the way you want.
Rick
As far a creativity, fine, but whats the point?
Its your car, build it the way you want.
Rick
David,
The FFR engine and trans mounts could be reconfigured to use just about any drivetrain you could dream up. The S2000 would be an interesting powertrain.
However, since the chassis is designed to utilize the Mustang suspension, the frame mounting points would have to completely redesigned and in my opinion, not worth the trouble.
You could easily use Cobra/ SN95/ T-bird components for the chassis and pick a unique drivetrain and have a relatively easy build. I think I saw here that someone was putting together a Fox donored, 2.3 turbo car, that package has the potential for impressive handling.
I guess if your end use is a cruise-in/ car show conversation piece, do whatever you want. However, the FFR with a Mustang donor ultimately would outperform a hybrid kit due to the huge support base already in existence.
My opinion-- whatever advantage you would gain in laptime in a 300hp 4 cyl. would be negated by the simplicity/ reduced expense of a 300hp V8.
Bottom line, it's your car, do what you want.
-Matt
The FFR engine and trans mounts could be reconfigured to use just about any drivetrain you could dream up. The S2000 would be an interesting powertrain.
However, since the chassis is designed to utilize the Mustang suspension, the frame mounting points would have to completely redesigned and in my opinion, not worth the trouble.
You could easily use Cobra/ SN95/ T-bird components for the chassis and pick a unique drivetrain and have a relatively easy build. I think I saw here that someone was putting together a Fox donored, 2.3 turbo car, that package has the potential for impressive handling.
I guess if your end use is a cruise-in/ car show conversation piece, do whatever you want. However, the FFR with a Mustang donor ultimately would outperform a hybrid kit due to the huge support base already in existence.
My opinion-- whatever advantage you would gain in laptime in a 300hp 4 cyl. would be negated by the simplicity/ reduced expense of a 300hp V8.
Bottom line, it's your car, do what you want.
-Matt
Matt, your absolutely right, no real reason or way to use the S2k suspension. If you want to fab a suspension, the current Corvette is probably a better way to go. The problem is always the uprights/spindles. Link are easy to make or buy.
Pat, I believe all FWD Hondas spin the wrong way for the transmission/axle. To make it right a lot of pieces become expensive customs. You might have more luck with a VVT-i Toyota, which I believe has a form of VTEC.
To match a 300hp Honda, the Ford would need to be 350-400hp. On top of that, 300hp isn't so high. 350-380 NA would be high. Note that VTEC allows you to use cam lobes that no one would consider on a street Ford. You are basically driving a 600hp SBF tune on VTEC and a 250hp SBF off VTEC. Well, maybe more like a Modular, since the pushrod valve train can't really duplicate an OHC setup.
Stock S2Ks are not that light, nearly 2900#, and not that fast (I've never broken 14sec@mid-90s.) In a Cobra, what you have is light weight. If you sized the rest of the car accordingly, you probably shave another 100# off. We are talking a 200-400# advantage. And a big improvement in weight distribution.
My 5¢
Pat, I believe all FWD Hondas spin the wrong way for the transmission/axle. To make it right a lot of pieces become expensive customs. You might have more luck with a VVT-i Toyota, which I believe has a form of VTEC.
To match a 300hp Honda, the Ford would need to be 350-400hp. On top of that, 300hp isn't so high. 350-380 NA would be high. Note that VTEC allows you to use cam lobes that no one would consider on a street Ford. You are basically driving a 600hp SBF tune on VTEC and a 250hp SBF off VTEC. Well, maybe more like a Modular, since the pushrod valve train can't really duplicate an OHC setup.
Stock S2Ks are not that light, nearly 2900#, and not that fast (I've never broken 14sec@mid-90s.) In a Cobra, what you have is light weight. If you sized the rest of the car accordingly, you probably shave another 100# off. We are talking a 200-400# advantage. And a big improvement in weight distribution.
My 5¢
David,
I think an S2000 would be a good donor, but not for a strict FFR car. Perhaps a custom designed/built frame using similar geometries and techniques to those used in the FFR, but with the right pickups to mount the S2000 drivetrain. In addition, the frame should be made far lighter since the power and weight is less than what FFR intends. This is where FFR's get their advantage over Mustangs. It's the comparative weights. I would guess that to do this, you'd use smaller, thinner tubes....maybe 3" or even 2" main tubes. I'll also guess that you'd end up with a car in the 1500 pound range. With something like this, you'd have a formidable track car. I currently run an 87 CRX that's been modified from SCCA IT trim to sort of supertouring. It's 1600 pounds and carries its stock 1.5 90hp engine. There are very few Mustangs or Mustang Cobras faster on a road course than this silly little buzz bomb. It's all tires/suspension/lightness. I've driven another CRX with a 170hp VTEC engine and it was easily challenging STi's and E46 M3's.
I say go for it.
I think an S2000 would be a good donor, but not for a strict FFR car. Perhaps a custom designed/built frame using similar geometries and techniques to those used in the FFR, but with the right pickups to mount the S2000 drivetrain. In addition, the frame should be made far lighter since the power and weight is less than what FFR intends. This is where FFR's get their advantage over Mustangs. It's the comparative weights. I would guess that to do this, you'd use smaller, thinner tubes....maybe 3" or even 2" main tubes. I'll also guess that you'd end up with a car in the 1500 pound range. With something like this, you'd have a formidable track car. I currently run an 87 CRX that's been modified from SCCA IT trim to sort of supertouring. It's 1600 pounds and carries its stock 1.5 90hp engine. There are very few Mustangs or Mustang Cobras faster on a road course than this silly little buzz bomb. It's all tires/suspension/lightness. I've driven another CRX with a 170hp VTEC engine and it was easily challenging STi's and E46 M3's.
I say go for it.
My sources tell me the S2k driveline is really strong enough for a 350hp S2k engine. they recommend using the engine, using a bellhousing to adapt the engine to a T-5, TKO, or T-56, and leave the rest alone. Yes, the S2k has a slick tranny. But maybe not a slick tranny after a 50% power boost.
The resulting Cobra wouid be heavier than your CRX. But much lighter than a 2800# S2k. You could probably drop a 250hp B18 in the CRX, couldn't you?
The resulting Cobra wouid be heavier than your CRX. But much lighter than a 2800# S2k. You could probably drop a 250hp B18 in the CRX, couldn't you?
I actually thought about it as a donor engine, but decided that it wasn't worth getting into the many unknowns for me. Besides, I still wouldn't have snortin' cobra. It would be a whining one.
With that said, I still want an S2K. BADLY Complete. 00-03, 02-03 preferred. It is a really fun car to drive, and when the vtec kicks at @6200 rpm, watching the tach kick to 9000 THAT FAST is a GREAT experience. I actually had almost bought two of them on seperate occasions, but it just wasn't the right time for me and sensibility prevailled. So I decided to save some money, and challenge myself to so something I have always wanted to do, BUILD a car. And thanks to you all, I have now spent more than the the white 03 S in Glens Falls that had my name on it 3 years ago...
It ain't the fastest or the baddest, but it is a really fun car. And for the money...it is still on the very short "Daddy Needs Another Toy" list.
With that said, I still want an S2K. BADLY Complete. 00-03, 02-03 preferred. It is a really fun car to drive, and when the vtec kicks at @6200 rpm, watching the tach kick to 9000 THAT FAST is a GREAT experience. I actually had almost bought two of them on seperate occasions, but it just wasn't the right time for me and sensibility prevailled. So I decided to save some money, and challenge myself to so something I have always wanted to do, BUILD a car. And thanks to you all, I have now spent more than the the white 03 S in Glens Falls that had my name on it 3 years ago...
It ain't the fastest or the baddest, but it is a really fun car. And for the money...it is still on the very short "Daddy Needs Another Toy" list.
If I were to use an import engine in a cobra, I would use the SR20DET. Less than half of the weight of 302. Turbo charged. About 205 to 250 hp stock (depending what year SR20DET you're using) Swap out a bigger turbo or upgrade the intercooler, you'll easily get 300 hp no problem. A swap kit (including harness & ECU) is about $2000 shipped.
A S2000 has been my daily driver for the last 6 years. I am also fortunate enough to have driven my SPF 9,000 miles in the last year.
I truly enjoy both cars. They are great......but they feel very very very different. The Honda feels delicate, dainty after driving the cobra. The S2000 runs a lot like a Civic until you get to 6200 rpm. The Cobra doesn't.
Drive both. Drive both in different settings.
Then do what you want.
Mike
I truly enjoy both cars. They are great......but they feel very very very different. The Honda feels delicate, dainty after driving the cobra. The S2000 runs a lot like a Civic until you get to 6200 rpm. The Cobra doesn't.
Drive both. Drive both in different settings.
Then do what you want.
Mike
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