This is an old gag that has been floating around the net for years but sure is a goodie.

 

Needs updated.

Bill Gates is probably worth more than GM now.


d

 

So GM cars are different than this how?

Hehe, couldn't resist.


Eric.

 

Hi,
Those sure are funny lines from GM to Microsoft. As for GM.... We ALL need to pray their rebound and all of us buy more American products.
It's been less than 30 years and look at the face of our economy. Our dollar is almost useless. A million dollars isn't a lot of money today. Undocumented immigrants can receive welfare, FREE health insurance, housing, car insurance. US citizens pay upwards off $1000.00 or more per month for health insurance and we export US labor to other nations at a rate I can't comprehend.
Let's stay strong, buy American as much as possible and vote. It's now or never. We could become the United States of China without 1 bullet, just their (China) dollars.

Happy Holidays,

Mike Forte

 

Gotta agree with Mike. I am British, love this country and drive a ford.

It kills me to hear Americans proud to not be buying American product.

 

Mike, I just found out my grandparents get less in SS than an illegal can get and my grandfather fought in WWII on Iwo Jima. Just crazy.

 

Hi farerikcartman,
That just pisses me off so much. How is that possible we support the immigrants more than our veterans.
I was told to listen to Michael Savage. He's written several books I'm just learning about Borders, Curlture & Language. The more I listen & learn, the more outraged I am.
I can't believe our children can't salute the flag because it says "GOD" in it. No more Christmas Songs or Holiday songs. Not even Frosty the Snowman or Jingle Bells!!!!! Am I still in America? What happened to the Christmas tree? Who hate's the Christmas so much that everyone looses the Joy of the season???
Who is the ACLU anyways???
My Dad says it's because of the VOCAL minority.
Perhaps the Majority needs to speak up and vote some changes to stay American.

Mike Forte

 

Not very popular with the Vocal Minority on this Forum (e.g.; guys who can't wait to recommend a rice burner when ever anyone ask what they should buy) but Mike is absolutely right (as usual). If American don't buy American products the U.S. economy is doomed. Buy American, Drive American and Support the Troops.

 

I agree with the "Buy American" sentiment, but only when there are adequate products. I bought my first Toyota this year, not because I really wanted a foreign car, but because I've had 3 GM vehicles in a row that haven't held up. They chased me away as a customer.
Peter

 

and how many of you shop at Wal-Mart, Costco, Sam's Club, Home Depot??

 

Originally posted by Aspaholic:
I agree with the "Buy American" sentiment, but only when there are adequate products. I bought my first Toyota this year, not because I really wanted a foreign car, but because I've had 3 GM vehicles in a row that haven't held up. They chased me away as a customer.
Peter

When I bought my first and last american truck (Ford) the first thing the sales man did was introduce me to the service manager. I knew that I was in for trouble, I had never met my Toyota service manager and didn't need to.

 

I'm tryin to keep buying american my friends! I have bought Fords almost my entire life. And they keep goin. I don't know why everyone seems to have all these problems with american cars. My Taurus now has 110K and looks as good as the day I bought it used (lol). The only thing that makes me want to trade it in at this point is that the seat is a little compressed (probably due to my large 250 lb ass!) but it is now becoming a problem on my lower back.

So now what to buy? I am liking the new Five Hundred's but they have little in the way of power. I like the Caddy devilles but am afraid to buy GM because of all the probs I have heard about. So what to do?

 

In our driveway is a '97 Dodge Dakota, '97 Chevy S10, '00 Dodge Neon and '01 PT cruiser. The Roadster is in the garage. I have never had any desire to buy a Japanese car but I have fixed more than a few. Typically the engineering is much better executed, the little details are taken care of. The US vehicles are a little crude, rough around the edges, in comparison. I have my own theories as to why this is which would get a little off track.

But I have to say if you own older vehicles that require some mainatainance the prices for foreign vehicle spares is outrageous compared to US vehicle spares. Having just performed similar work on both a Toyota Corolla and the Neon I found that similar parts for my Daughters Neon are about 25%-30% of the price of Toyota parts. While I was at the Toyota parts counter a guy came in for a chrome center cap for a Toyota SUV. Just a simple chrome plated plastic snap in piece. Probably cost all of about 50c to make. The price was shocking. With tax it was over $100

 

The whole "buy American" thing gets confusing when you look at the global market. What is an American car anymore? Is a BMW X5 American? It's built in Spartanburg SC by Americans, even though the profit goes to Germany, but so does the profit for your Dodge, owned by Daimler Chrysler! How about a Mazda Miata, made in Japan? Ford owns controlling interest in Mazda...as well as Volvo and Jaguar. GM owns Saab, is that American? Many car companies, including Mazda and BMW have design studios in this country. In a global market, there are very few cars with 100% American design, content, and manufacture.

 

Toyota, Honda, and Nissan all have multiple design centers in the US for the American market vehicles.

 

To be fair, I consider a 100K vehicle just broken in. I like my old GM vehicles (which I've kept), and I liked my old Ford truck, but I haven't been impressed with the newer ones I've owned (and sold).

The problem with GM and Ford is not primarily a question of skill (though with poor tech enrollment that is an issue), but of market decisions by the execs, and of shifting gov't and societal expectations. GM and Ford are faltering because of poor vision coupled with hefty retirement plans. Such plans depended on hefty margins to cover costs, and were probably overly generous to begin with. You can't expect Ford to compete evenly against companies from other countries that don't carry retirement costs.

Unfortunately, I think GM and Ford will both go bankrupt and the Fed's will pick up the pension plans. America's trend is toward centralizing the flow of money and power in the fed gov't, but I don't think we'll be very happy with where it's going to take us long term.


Peter

 

I just love it when one of the GM and Ford bashers (you know who you are) try to argue that Honda, Nissan, and Toyota are American cars too.
Sure they have facilities in North America, but where does the money go and who makes all of the real decisions. Everything is controlled by Japan while the Japanese government continues to manipulate the value of the Yen to give their companies an economic advantage while at the same time block the importation of U.S. goods into Japan. And why is there no Union representation at most of the transplant facilities in the U.S.? Because the executives in Japan have been very clear that they will close those plants in the employees unionize. And what kind of health care and pension plans or offered to the employees at those facilities? GM and Ford were hailed as great companies and socially responsible for providing great benefits and good wages to their employees a couple of decades ago and I bet I wouldn't be too far off to say that the vast majority of members on this Forum benefited in one form or another by the increased standard of living for the hourly workforce those wages and benefits created. Now that GM and Ford are in trouble because of unfair foreign competition everybody says that they should never have provided a descent wage and good benefits to their employees. Where would this country be if every major employer out there had adopted the Wal-Mart approach years ago? I've driven American cars all my life, but I've also had the opportunity to do extensive testing in foreign cars and despite what the VOCAL minority says, American cars are very bit as good and dependable as the Japanese. When is the last time you actually drove an American car? GM and Ford are producing the best cars they have ever built, yet no one seems to care. Go out and actually drive a real American car and decide for yourself.
Okay now that I've ranted a little, all you Haters can flame away!

 

I think you miss my point. I have nothing against American cars, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee in my driveway, and it's the latest of a long series of Jeeps. I've worked for GM dealerships, a Mazda dealership, and now a BMW dealership. All cars have issues, even Toyota and Honda. My point is that my Jeep dollars are going to Munich...is it still American? How about a domestic truck built in Ontario?

 

You live in a dreamworld of national protectionism and paternalist company strategy, Gil. It's not the 1970s anymore. The consumer, the American consumer, demands more, for less, all the time. The company that provides that wins. Period.

"unfair foreign competition"

There's no such thing.

Oh, just as an aside, I drive an American car in America, a British built car from an American company in Britain, have an American fiancee, work for a US bank (principally analysing fleet vehicle financing), and have only owned one Japanese car. Which was rubbish. (Since I'll doubtless be accused of favouring 'rice').

 

I thought I'd go for a flame Tricky, as I happen to agree with much of the sentiment posted. (Aside from thinking that Michael Savage is a deeply unpleasant, bigoted little man, who would be downright dangerous if sufficiently coherent (see also: Ann Coulter, Michael Moore, Michelle Malkin and a dozen others ))

[ December 23, 2005, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: UK_Coupe ]

 

1 of our vehicles is a Chevy Tracker. Running gear including the engine is Suzuki (according to all the stickers and casting marks), yet it was built by Chevy and sold as a Chev. Good old badge engineering.

Is it American or Japanese ? Was it built by American after it was bought from Japan?

Gone are the days of a local supply to a local market.

 

I compared a Focus to a Civic this fall. The Focus costs more, is obviously more crude while driving, gets worse gas milage, has a lower resale value, worse repair history, on and on.

When I bought my new 2001 Supercrew, the first three months saw a trip to the dealer for a stress cracked windshield, paint peeling, interior lights not working, speedo off by more than 10 mph at 55, recall for seat belt, leaking diff.

At 60,000 miles I have multiple electrical issues, won't go into 4-low, changed all the coils (some twice), nearly had a faulty brake switch burn the whole thing up (fixed at my expense, later recalled), changed the idler arm, 4 sets of brake pads, and my diff is still leaking.

My Civic has only seen the dealer while giving me a ride for an oil filter. Same goes for my 2002 WRX.

Ford basher, you bet!!

 

"American cars are very bit as good and dependable as the Japanese. When is the last time you actually drove an American car? GM and Ford are producing the best cars they have ever built, yet no one seems to care. Go out and actually drive a real American car and decide for yourself."

Not true...at all. Our CR-V is cheap, has never ever broken down and has required basic maitanence. It has almost 100k miles. The VW and Audi we have/had suck however.

My ranger on the other hand has had 2 sets of timing chains, 3 sets of front brakes, a transfer case, rear end rebuilt, blah blah blah, needs ball joints now..all at or before 45k miles

 

My '92 Suburban has been great. It went 140K miles before it started having problems and in the 100K since then has required all the expected items (engine rebuild, tranny rebuild, engine accessories, suspension bushings), but all the "little" stuff like power locks, windows, stereo (except speakers), lights, etc. all still work. It has more than met my expectations, esp since I bought it used. I'll probably keep it forever for my "parts run vehicle".

I had a new '99 Suburban, too, as my wife's car. In less than 2 years, before I sold it with 50K miles, it had a tranny, gas tank sender, two door locks, one window regulator, and the threat deterrent ignition replaced, about half out of warranty. Our '01 GM minivan has been just as bad, and we both hate it. I've stopped trying to keep the electronics working.

My brother has a Saturn, and it's been perfect for him since the day he bought it new. From what I can tell, the GM Saturn experiment was exactly the right idea, it was well executed, and it was killed. It's the closest to a Toyota experience I think I've seen by the Big 3.

I don't think it's just labor costs -- Europe is less productive and has higher taxes than here, but their car companies like BMW, Volvo, and Porsche seem to do fine. All I've seen about VW and Audi makes me think they're great for about 70K miles, and then they're worthless. All the above have cars that "feel" better than almost any GM or Ford. I travel enough to drive most of the bottom-half of the rental car fleets, and while most are "adequate" for almost-new cars, few are at all remarkable, and several have been downright unpleasant. Quiet, clean handling, good gas mileage, and decent power is all I ask. Is that so hard to deliver?

Peter

 

I always said that if the americans would build a decent car, I would buy it. Bought a Saturn SL2 wagon new in 1994. Sold it at 30k after changing a battery, cat, timing chain (the last forever one). Some genius bult the gutters so that they would dump rain right in the drivers seat when you open the door. Of course this was "normal" and not a defect.

Bash GM, you bet!!