Any idea what makes it a "race chassis"?

 

What series and what tracks? I'd take time out to see it run. Hopefully it will run the NASA Mid-Atlantic series with the FFR Coupe of Dan Elam and the rest of the Spec Cobras. That would make it easy to compare to a lot of cars, not least the SU Corvettes, Vipers and 911s.

And maybe even my little car!

-Will

 

Tacdoc No idea yet what makes a "race" chassis, Jim did not say.

 

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[ December 07, 2005, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Tacdoc ]

 

I dont think you need to really DELAY it such a long time. If you REALLY want to get a track duty frame i would talk to FFR about what would be the areas they would recommend beefing up and how they plan on doing it. Since they havent designed all the extra peices that would need to be welded on to strengthen the frame you can have an independent frame shop weld some extra metal on in the places that FFR recommends or you can go and have an independet engineer try to do it.

Thats only if you dont want to wait a year ofcourse. And you feel confident in your ability to make frame mods.

As for me.. i dont even know exactly how long it will be till i can afford to build this.. 3-5 years? when my gf ( wife by then ) graduates from college and has a job probably..

Good luck.

 

Any idea what makes it a "race chassis"?

A good starting point would be to follow SCCA or NASA safety requirements. Look in their rule books. I would imagine most of the changes would be to make the driver safer in a crash...

Craig

 

Here is the link to Nasa pdf pg 43 or pg 57 using the right scroll bar AND concerning a full tube chassis pdf pg 58 = pg 72 right scroll bar.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

GH

 

I am not in such a rush to get my GTM kit delivered if it means tracking a frame that is not intended to sustain the stresses track use will subject it to. I think about coming off the banked straight onto the apron at Texas world speedway at 150 and what that impact feels like and worry about the GTM now. I would rather delay my delivery even a year if it means getting a track duty frame

Presumably if FFR were racing a car in 2006, they'd have an idea of what the frame needed to be. You could just get an early version of that frame.

-Will

 

It would have to have a cage built to NASCAR specs before I would go on a track with it. I wonder how much weight that would add? It looks pretty hard to climb out the door window. also. Maybe a roof hatch?

 

I would also be interested in a race chassis, but I would be more geared toward NHRA specs. I would like it to be 9 sec certified at least.

 

Could this be the "Race Chassis"? I know its the older frame they showed but? In 4130 , but it would need more tubes along the sides.

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/gtmupdate/morephotos/0560.jpg

GH

 

Thats definatly not it. Thats an older chassis, the current one is an evolution of this one. Just look at the very rear of the chassis and how the transmission mounts are. They changed that completely. Now it doesnt stick out so low out the back, and allows us to have a nice diffuser.

 

I thought as much but hey it put this topic back where it belongs.
bump.
gh

 

Originally posted by Bill Hough:
It would have to have a cage built to NASCAR specs before I would go on a track with it. I wonder how much weight that would add? It looks pretty hard to climb out the door window. also. Maybe a roof hatch?

I don't know much about Nascar's new specs since Earnhardt's death, but their old specs were horrible. My uncle bought one of Roush's cars and made it into a street rod, he pointed out everything wrong with them over about an hour. He's a mechanical engineer by the way. But yeah, Safety is important!

 

"My uncle bought one of Roush's cars and made it into a street rod, he pointed out everything wrong with them over about an hour."

Any improvements he suggested? any tips for would be frame builders/frame modifications?

GH

 

Anybody have any updates on FFR's Race chassis for the GTM???
GH

 

I don't know much about Nascar's new specs since Earnhardt's death, but their old specs were horrible. My uncle bought one of Roush's cars and made it into a street rod, he pointed out everything wrong with them over about an hour. He's a mechanical engineer by the way. But yeah, Safety is important!

Wow, an real eng-i-neer eh?! I'll bet Jack Roush was eager to finally have one look at his cars and tell him everything that was wrong.
I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall in that shop after your uncle left, that would have been hilarious.

 

Originally posted by Mike D:
I don't know much about Nascar's new specs since Earnhardt's death, but their old specs were horrible. My uncle bought one of Roush's cars and made it into a street rod, he pointed out everything wrong with them over about an hour. He's a mechanical engineer by the way. But yeah, Safety is important!

Wow, an real eng-i-neer eh?! I'll bet Jack Roush was eager to finally have one look at his cars and tell him everything that was wrong.
I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall in that shop after your uncle left, that would have been hilarious.

I love flaming, it makes me

. My uncle actually owns his own fabrication shop and at the time was building a new garage to potentially support my cousin who was racing in the IRL at the time. He spent plenty of time as a crew chief in USAC and raced sprint cars for years. I respect that maybe you don't understand that I was referring to their safety specifications and not their performance specs. If you disagree that at some point in time nascar went pretty lax on their safety devlopment then you apparently disagree with nascar as they have made changes.

As far as build suggestions if you really want his contact info pm me but I would personally call a frame building shop for racecar series and get their input. But i'm not on here too often. Flame on.

 

I wouldn't call it flaming you, I simply find it amusing when someone comes in and 'knows somebody' with all the answers that people like Roush (who've been at it since I was a toddler) and all the other teams in NASCAR haven't been able to discover. Of course I could be wrong, if so I'd expect he could do well as a consultant.

The fact that NASCAR made improvements doesn't mean anything. That's the nature of racing, things get better (and safer) with time and development. Building on previous knowledge is how most engineering is done, including in racing.

BTW, gh426 asked if your uncle could could pass along any suggestions on frame construction.

 

Originally posted by Bill Hough:
It would have to have a cage built to NASCAR specs before I would go on a track with it.

Then it would weigh 4000 pounds.

 

Gents, the NASCAR specs aren't all that big of a deal. It would only take a few mods to comply with the safety specs. The spec racers already comply.

 

Dan, are you suggesting that the SPEC Racer chassis meets Nascar specs? I cant see flipping a Spec Racer end over end at talladega going 200mph and walking away.

 

Nascar door bars in the specs are two bars in the driver's door. My oval car (and all the late models I know) have 4 bars, interconnected, gusseted, with 3/16 steel plate on the outside, and additional bars going to front of the petals, also with 3/16 plate.

 

* edited *

 

Originally posted by NUMBER 1 STUNNA:
Dan, are you suggesting that the SPEC Racer chassis meets Nascar specs? I cant see flipping a Spec Racer end over end at talladega going 200mph and walking away.

Basically - yes.

But I am talking about the cage, not the chassis.

The NASCAR specs mostly have to do with tubing, angles, and welds. On the spec racer FFR complies with everything but an anti-intrusion plate. The other critical difference is that the sedans use full cages while the spec racers use what is basically a half cage. We're more at risk for flying debris, but not from a roll-over because of the height. I have every confidence in FFR that they are doing the exact same welds and safety things when it comes to the GTM cage.

The chassis is a little different. Stock cars are a lot heavier - more than 50% heavier. My understanding is that they do have a few things to help disappate energy but those are relatively new advancements. Those new things probably aren't on the GTM, but we're really starting to split hairs. When you consider the lighter weight, it is probably about the same.

Unfortunately, we do have a fair amount of data from some really bad crashes with the spec racers. Rob Mau when bouncing through the trees so hard that the second bounce still had enough energy to break a tree - sideways. Harry Elam hit the wall at VIR at an estimated 100+MPH at a bad angle. Gary Cheney's car hit a car that had run out of gas; the accident was so bad that when I was standing there it took me 5 minutes to realize it was two cars. Spencer Sharp went tumbling end over end down a hill in December. In all of those cases, the driver's basically walked away. (In the Cheney accident, the driver did have foot surgery, but that was almost certainly due to a seat belt problem. In a regular space-frame car he could have been killed.)

In each of those cases the cars held up very well and FFR learned a lot about what works and what doesn't. FFR cars have a very impressive safety record even if our racers have been somewhat unwilling guinea pigs!

My point isn't that the GTM is appropriate as a race car - that is a different issue. (I am as curious as anyone to what they are going to change for the 'track' version.) My point is that from a cage perspective the current GTM is going to be about as safe as anything you'll ever find on the track - and a lot safer than a Vette, Viper, or other production car.