I did a lot of research before deciding on FFR. Their frame is the strongest that I've seen. The aluminum panels provide more stability. My body was the same thickness all around and fit's real good. They do have a spacing system to fit the body to the frame that could be improved, but, that's not a real major hurdle either. I'm extremely satisfied with mine!

 

I am happy with the quality of the kit. Your final product is totally dependent on your ability. FFR has some faults. They have been beat to death on this and other forums. However, if the product was not a good value for the money and/or had serious quality issues they would have sold 3000+ kits.

If you buy an FFR you are not going to get a Superperformance car, but you are not going to spend 50K either.

 

the quality of your kit is what you make of it(how much time and money you spend on it). the actual kit itself is probably the best in the market. this car has been over engeneered. everything is extremely heavy duty for a 2000 lb car.

just my .02

luis lopezFFR4031

 

I have been very happy so far with my kit. The engineering is top notch. I am about half way thru the build and everything so far has fit nicely. THere will always be a little tweaking with anything you build. My friend has a Superformance kit down the street from me. He is very impressed with the value of an FFR. For $25,000 you can have an exceptional car. The fibergalss thickness was an old design problem. My father has been working with fiberglass (boats) for 25 years. He says the body looks good and has a uniform thickness. i believe the hood and trunk used to be a little on the thin side.
The frame is very rugged and torsionally stiff. FFR build s a track racing car with the same frame design (spec racer).
Good luck with your cobra experience.

trevor

 

Joel, Several years ago, Gerhardt Ghast (sp? Gahst? Gast?) of Honolulu bought a very early FFR built by Mike Mack, flew to Pa. and took delivery, then drove it all over the USA, ending up somewhere on the west coast, then he shipped the car home to Hawaii. It should still be on your island, and maybe Gerhardt is too, so maybe you can look them up for a firsthand look. He published a story about his adventures in one of the kitcar magazines a few years ago. I don't remember the details, but he had some issues with his car. Maybe Mike at Tri-States Motorsports can help you contact him. Gerhardt is a really good guy, but I've lost touch with him.

I've built 2 FFR's, an early one (FFR #1152) and a very recent Mark II (FFR #3422). I loved my first car and found no quality issues with the kit as supplied. I built it in 6 months and drove it like I stole it for 62,000 miles with no problems. My new one is a more robust design in many details: door hinges, hood, trunk lid, driver and passenger footboxes have all been strengthened, and a "backbone" transmission tunnel design now stiffens the frame. Quality has improved too: door design/fit/fabrication, hood and door fit, plus lots of other smaller details I noticed while building but can't remember now. The trunk had to be finessed to fit the way I wanted across the upper lip. No other concerns during this build. I'm VERY happy with the new car, too.

Be careful of Hawaii laws on registering a component car. I remember Gerhardt was very angry with some changes that were making it difficult or impossible to license his car. You may want to check that out thoroughly to avoid frustration when you finish your build. Hope that all helps in your decision making. Email me if I can answer any questions.

[ February 21, 2003, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: John Phillips ]

 

Advice for life that's worked out pretty good for me so far:

Stay away from taking suggestions from folks that own one thing and bash another as inferior.

If someone does own something, it's likely the very best for them in some or multiple ways.

What's best for them may not be best for you.

I'm not sure there are any real flaws in the FFR frame.

Get all the guys with brunette wives or girlfriends in a room. Then ask them if they like brunette women. Guess what kind of answer you'll get?

No different here with the cars. There are a few here with other makes, all of which were right for them.

Choose what YOU like, the car is YOURS not THEIRS.

I chose FFR 'cause I get to build it however the hell I want it, and I like the AL panels and unstressed body.

 

Originally posted by Joel Simmons:
I have run into some criticism regarding the build quality of the FFR.

Everyone is a critic. It doesn't matter how good anything is, there will always be someone who finds fault. That said they will have to work REALLY HARD to find fault with the FFR's. I'm building a very recent number (#3865) and am blown away by the quality and fit. I'm almost at the gocart stage now and the only part that was not a perfect fit was a piece of aluminum that sat a bit high due to being on top of a weld on the chassis. 2 minutes with a dremel (and 1/16" later) the fit was again perfect.

Have no fear that the quality is not good enough. It is.

 

Sounds like I'm going to be the one dissenting vote here. I'm early in the build and have found incorrectly manufactured lower tubular front A-arms and lower IRS arms. Both sets had to be replaced by FFR, about a month and a half process, although they were replaced no questions asked. It's set me back in the build significantly, however. Sure, I, like most, have had to grind things down or wedge them in to fit - that's fine. But the lack of quality control in these parts surprises me. It was obvious that they weren't right - a blind man could have seen it.

I spoke with Mark Weber at FFR, their head of quality control, and got a hem and haw answer about this.

Generally I'm satisfied with the kit and agree the frame is of excellent quality. Like I said, this happened early in the build and frustrated me because I couldn't make significant progress in it until now.

FFR is making improvements in quality - the body seams are much better than they used to be and generally things fit fine. The aluminum I've worked with so far fits well and I expect few problems as I progress.

I'm glad I bought it and can't wait until it's finished and I'm driving it.

 

Gerhardt Gast's car is alive and well in Broomfield, CO. I purchased it from the interim owner, who only had it a short while. After buying it, I took it to the trusted mechanic of my neighbor (a Porsche and Z28 owner). The mechanics raved about it- nothing but good things to say. They checked it out from top to bottom. Only issues were a dent in the oil pan and a replaced water pump, other than new belts,hoses and other various regular maintenance items. Everything else was in good shape. I asked for recommendations on improvements and there only comment was "why?!? Unless you want more HP"

Sure it has a little road wear, which is to be expected for its age. But, it runs very hard for a stock 302 and handles pretty well (a little bump steer).

Mark Lemberger
Proud Owner of FFR1086
Gerhardt Gast's original car

 

An added note regarding Gerhardt Gast. He has moved to Austin TX. After purchasing the car and then speaking with Mike Mack, I searched the internet and tracked Gerhardt down in Austin. Haven't e-mailed him in a while, but I should. He had Carroll Shelby sign FFR1086 and I want to get copies of the pictures from the signing. CS signed it on the inside of the drivers side door - nice and big. If I ever get a digital camera (or cajole a neighbor into letting me use his) I'll post pictures of the car.

Mark Lemberger

 

Joel-

The FF Cobra is very good quality for the price. Yes, there are some fitment issues, but overall it's a good car. There are others that are better and more authentic - ERA, Unique and Superformance are three that I know of. Those three don't use the aluminum panels riveted to the frame concept. They use the fiberglass "tub" design. All three a re considered to be more accurate replications of the original, especially ERA. However, ERA is a two year wait.

My advice is to develop a budget of what you can spend, then visit each manufacturer's website to see if their cars fit your budget. Once you have wittled your list of potential manufacturer's down, visit them, look at their cars, ride in one, talk to owners, and then......make that final selection.

2FAST

 

No matter what you hear, you will never find a kit car that throws together like an assembly line car. There will always be fit issues that you will have to take care of. That is the joy of building a car by yourself. The car itself is very well designed, which is why most of us bought it. There was a survey done a while ago buy Bill about the reasons we bought FFR instead of some other brand that confirmed this. Sure we're biased, but you'll sure get an awful lot of help here.

 

Originally posted by John F:
No matter what you hear, you will never find a kit car that throws together like an assembly line car.

And the funny thing is that the "real" car builders will view the FFR as too simple. No joke. "No welding or fabrication? Why not just buy a new car?"

 

I'm currently on my 2nd build. First off, I don't know of a " weak point in the design of the tube-frame". The frame is one of the best parts of the car.

The body however is not the greatest. I was disapointed with the body on my first build. So much so that I bought a Tristates body for my 2nd one.

I have seen recent posts of folks concerned with the trunk lid not matching the lines of the back of the car. Here and here

The hood and hood hinge are not great. The old hood hinge down right sucked. The new one appears to have addresed some but not all of the fitament issues.

The fiberglass work was poor. These things can be addressed with

and work. There are folks out there that are experienced with the FFR body work that can make them look great. If you are planning to build it on the Island, you may not have access to someone with fiberglass experience.

I would also be concerned with backorders, missing parts and having the wrong parts shipped with your kit. This is something that many have experienced. To the best of my knoweledge the Smiths have always got the correct parts to thier customers. Just not always in a timely manner or on the first try. This would be very frusterating being out on the island.

There are kits out thier that require less work to build and include all the parts so you won't have to go looking for donors. Unique would be a good example. When you compare an optioned FFR with donor parts, the Unique really isn't much more. That may or may not be for you. I kinda liked the freedom to customize that the FFR allowed me.

The support of this Forum is the FFR's greatest asset. If you have a problem, help is only a post away.

Good luck on your search

 

Originally posted by 2FAST4U:
Joel-

ERA, Unique and Superformance are three that I know of. Those three don't use the aluminum panels riveted to the frame concept. They use the fiberglass "tub" design. All three a re considered to be more accurate replications of the original, especially ERA. However, ERA is a two year wait.

2FAST

quick correction, the ERA is not a tub design body. See below picture from manual. The ERA body is unstressed, and pulls over the frame similar to an FFR.

The FFR is great, you build what you want. Over-all the quality is high, but I will bitch about attention to detail. On my kit there was little to none. I would build another, and I haven't even finished this one yet.

See Ya

Jeff E.

 

If you want to see some of ALL of the Brands,,, Come on out to the Spring fling. There were cobras there last year I had never heard of.

earl

 

Aloha,

Discussion here of Fit & Finish of FFR Roadsters

Mahalo,
lnj

(PS I could not be more pleased, see 3850 Assembly Progress )
Maui Apr 5-15

 

Here's what I'll say - mind that my car is one of the older ones (2822, a MK1 ) and I understand things have improved - yet I am still happy. I've been doing a very slow build compared to most.

Frame? I have no major complaints at all. Minor problems with having to do the "spread the ears" bit to get the control arms in, and some grinding/drilling due to alignment on the steering rack. Of course, I have solid bushings, so I complicated things myself.

Body? Uniform thickness - if anything, I've got a few thick spots, not thin. (one in the driver rear wheel well - may be doing some grinding yet)
Still in the bodywork stage.

Aluminum Panels: Probably the biggest 'complaint' if you can call it that. Place where the most massaging was needed. Fair amount of trim/bang/file/bend to fit took place. Yet it did all fit. (one exception, and that is no longer an issue, as the MKII has compeletly changed the cockpit AL in this area was the upper corner aluminum. Passenger side was completly bent wrong. Fixed with BFH and vise.)

Best part about this car: It's mine. T'aint another one like it. Period. Might be some close, but I know for certain that I have done things in my way that nobody else has done my way. The manual is at best a mild suggestion to me of how to put things together.

 

If my memory serves me doesn't HI have some issues with a kit car and registration?

LLoyd

 

The quality is entirely up to the builder...period.

Roscoe

 

Joel
I you want to learn about FFR you should attend our build school at MOTT COMMUNITY College, in Flint MI. In three days you and 9 others will build a FFR from the ground up.
If you would like to talk to me, my number is 818 750 0029.

 

Not sure if this matters to you but here are some of the reasons I went with FFR:

1. With FFR, you ride the frame, not a fiberglass tub. The FFR body is a non-stressed member. Other kits use the body as a structural component.

2. The guts of an FFR are OEM Ford parts. Millions of $$$ of R&D went into engineering these parts for a Mustang. Plus, there is huge aftermarket support for this platform (Fox).

3. If something major ever tanks that I can't fix, there is a good number of Ford mechanics that can help out.

4. The level of support from other owners is huge. It's good to know that someone else (3000+ someones) have BTDT in case you ever get stuck.

5. There is a sense of camraderie among most FFR owners. This kit is like the "everyman's Cobra". Not too many FFR snobs that I know of. My kind of people.

6. The Smith brothers run a business. They constantly improve the product and listen to feedback from owners to R&D new features. I want to go with a company that has a philosophy that I can get behind, customer focused management and "legs" for the long-run. I.e. I don't want to drop $30K-$40K to build my car now and find out that FFR is out of business in three years.

My $0.02.

 

The quality is entirely up to the builder...period.

Amen!

 

I have to disagree with that last one - quility is up to the builder. I think there is still lots of room for improvement on the FFR side. I've had to trim, rebend, or both, just about every piece of aluminum in the car. Some of this is just differences in the frames, but some of this is just panels that need re-designed. My .02.

 

DON'T FORGET IT IS STILL A KIT,YOU HAVE TO DO SOME WORK TOO. I'M READY FOR BODY INSTALL AND I'M VERY HAPPY WITH MY KIT.