Im looking at 2 FFRs and both are outfitted pretty much the same except the engine-- one has a stock 5.0 225 hp with EFI the other has a 428 police interceptor. For those of you who have experience with both set ups -- beyond both being fast what are the differences from a driving perspective. thanks !!
pierre
I have driven my MKI 5.0 Stock Build 10,000 miles, Power Brakes but No Power steering and it is ok, then I have driven my MKIII (powered by a 2003 Cobra Donor, with the engine even HEAVIER than a Big Block) for around 1800 miles and it is great, obviously I have Power Steering in it and PS really helps a lot. and I also drove a 427 FFR but for a few feet around the California Cobra (company) shop with manual steering and it felt really heavy (but SuperPowerful) compared against my MKI.
I'd say that any engine should be fine WITH the use of a PS system, obviuosly a BB car requires more attention because of the size of the engine.
I was very satisfied with my 5.0 stock powered MKI until I drove my MKIII.
I'd say that any engine should be fine WITH the use of a PS system, obviuosly a BB car requires more attention because of the size of the engine.
I was very satisfied with my 5.0 stock powered MKI until I drove my MKIII.
I have a 325 hp 302. ITS PLENTY, oh I have 175hp NOS shot too. THATS MORE THAN PLENTY. The 325 hp is very usable on and off the track. I couldnt imagine being able to use anymore power. THe NOS feels like an F18 afterburner.
true for dogs and sailboats, but i'd disagree on that...all in how ya build it.....bighead!
love ya man really, just breaking stones...the sig is back huh?
A stock 302 with 215-225 hp just an't gonna cut it boys.
Big blocks can't handle? Who cares. I'd rather head into a turn 75 pounds heavier than get out run by a Mustang Cobra or a Corvette. It's not gonna matter if you can handle or not when you can pass the 302'd Cobra in a straightaway half throttle in 4th gear.
Small block/big block. It doesn't really matter as long as you got enough horsepower to not feel threatened when you're sitting beside of ANYTHING at a stop light.
Big blocks can't handle? Who cares. I'd rather head into a turn 75 pounds heavier than get out run by a Mustang Cobra or a Corvette. It's not gonna matter if you can handle or not when you can pass the 302'd Cobra in a straightaway half throttle in 4th gear.
Small block/big block. It doesn't really matter as long as you got enough horsepower to not feel threatened when you're sitting beside of ANYTHING at a stop light.
Pierre,
Now that we've had some fun, let's try to actually help.
What do you plan to do with the car? How will you use it? Are you going to cruise to the malt shop in it, or do you plan to race (Strip or road race)? I'm sure you wouldn't street race it, would you?
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Have you driven either car? Ridden in either?
What are the emissions laws in Ohio? Are both cars already registered in that state?
What kind of cars have you owned in the past? What is your experience level in racing, if any?
Kevin
Now that we've had some fun, let's try to actually help.
What do you plan to do with the car? How will you use it? Are you going to cruise to the malt shop in it, or do you plan to race (Strip or road race)? I'm sure you wouldn't street race it, would you?
Have you driven either car? Ridden in either?
What are the emissions laws in Ohio? Are both cars already registered in that state?
What kind of cars have you owned in the past? What is your experience level in racing, if any?
Kevin
my experience is with Porsche 911's mostly and BMWs. New to cobras. I have driven just one Superformance with a 351 build-- 393 or so. It was a handful and big time fun. My Porsche is plenty fast but looking for something with more edge. Mostly cruising around and an occasional blow-blast down the highway with the pedal down. I dont want to be disappointed but a cobra that is the same experience/ performance as my porsche
OK, you are used to cars that handle (and also have an evil side, if the Porsche is more than about 12 years old).
What suspension did the Cobras have? IRS would be best, followed by 3-link and last 4-link.
I suspect you would not find a stock 5.0 to be enough motor in the long run. You could mod it and get more HP, but the 428 will always make more torque.
Tires will be vital with the 428.
Did the cars have 15" or 17" wheels? 15" means drag radials are the only sticky tires available and they won't handle as well. 17" gives you more choices.
The extra torque will make the car an animal, but a manageable one if it has good tires. The torque is what will make the experience different from the Porsche.
Where the Porsche is finesse, the Cobra is a brick through a plate glass window. Brutal in a good way.
If it has the right suspension, wheels & tires, and will be OK on emissions, I think you would be happier with the 428 as long as you don't plan a lot of long distance driving. (gas mileage and heat).
Kevin
What suspension did the Cobras have? IRS would be best, followed by 3-link and last 4-link.
I suspect you would not find a stock 5.0 to be enough motor in the long run. You could mod it and get more HP, but the 428 will always make more torque.
Tires will be vital with the 428.
Did the cars have 15" or 17" wheels? 15" means drag radials are the only sticky tires available and they won't handle as well. 17" gives you more choices.
The extra torque will make the car an animal, but a manageable one if it has good tires. The torque is what will make the experience different from the Porsche.
Where the Porsche is finesse, the Cobra is a brick through a plate glass window. Brutal in a good way.
If it has the right suspension, wheels & tires, and will be OK on emissions, I think you would be happier with the 428 as long as you don't plan a lot of long distance driving. (gas mileage and heat).
Kevin
Hmmm ... so many ways this could go. How about this one?
If you were lucky enough to get one of the original 34 'true S/C' Cobras, you got a 520 HP 427. If you were less lucky and got the standard production version MkIII with the 427, you got 425 HP. If you were even less lucky, you got a 340 HP 428 (in Police Interceptor trim) and still technically got a 427 S/C MkIII Cobra. Likely with good tires and a nice launch, this was still a sub 12 second quarter miler and nothing to sneeze at.
However, this hoists the lowly 302 HO up a couple of steps in this particular big block/small block pi$$ing match. While there is no doubt that the 428 makes more power, it is also heavier, probably much more expensive, and with the plentiful aftermarket in 5.0 bolt-on's, you can relatively easily get the same or more HP out of the lighter, cheaper 302 block.
Just my opinion.
If you were lucky enough to get one of the original 34 'true S/C' Cobras, you got a 520 HP 427. If you were less lucky and got the standard production version MkIII with the 427, you got 425 HP. If you were even less lucky, you got a 340 HP 428 (in Police Interceptor trim) and still technically got a 427 S/C MkIII Cobra. Likely with good tires and a nice launch, this was still a sub 12 second quarter miler and nothing to sneeze at.
However, this hoists the lowly 302 HO up a couple of steps in this particular big block/small block pi$$ing match. While there is no doubt that the 428 makes more power, it is also heavier, probably much more expensive, and with the plentiful aftermarket in 5.0 bolt-on's, you can relatively easily get the same or more HP out of the lighter, cheaper 302 block.
Just my opinion.
It has always been my experience (in an earlier life) that small blocks will outrun big blocks on a road course. Big blocks will always outrun small blocks in straight ahead compitition.
There isn't anything you can do to a small block that will make it sound like a big block, they just have a "one-of-a-kind" sound.
Small blocks will out rev big blocks by 2K almost anyday. Big blocks will pull stumps out of the ground for you if needed (torque).
Personally, I'm old school . . . there is no excuse for cubic inches. But, I will tell you that driving a big block is like swatting flys with a wrecking ball.
Doc
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There isn't anything you can do to a small block that will make it sound like a big block, they just have a "one-of-a-kind" sound.
Small blocks will out rev big blocks by 2K almost anyday. Big blocks will pull stumps out of the ground for you if needed (torque).
Personally, I'm old school . . . there is no excuse for cubic inches. But, I will tell you that driving a big block is like swatting flys with a wrecking ball.
Doc
I agree wiyh Trevor. Most of the time your just driving normally, or your lucky with police. And, more weight stinks in corners. Why not turn on the power when you need it. I had a 427 Camaro in high school that would outrun my XB3M in a straight line, but it would never touch it in a corner. If you can afford an all aluminum BB go for it. Or, better yet, get an aluminum SB.
P.S. My Camaro was a castiron headed L88, closed chamber, ZL1 cam, Holley 3 BBL, and Hooker 2 1/4" headers. About 560 HP gross
P.S. My Camaro was a castiron headed L88, closed chamber, ZL1 cam, Holley 3 BBL, and Hooker 2 1/4" headers. About 560 HP gross
I think that's "no substitute for cubic inches" or... "no replacement for displacement"Originally posted by Big Blocker - Doc -:
. . . there is no excuse for cubic inches.
Doc![Image]()
...but you're right! There's really no excuse to have more cubic inches in these cars.
I've always been on the fence on this one. I could go either way but felt the SB was easier and cheaper to maintain. I love the torque of a big block but love the sound of a high RPM SB just the same. You can easliy bolt on 400hp to that 302 in the future. Take a look at this link for a typical 5.0 build-up.
If it were me, I'd save the $4K and go with the SB and use the $4k to add the things you want to make it yours. Given gas prices may hit $4.00 by summers end, you'll drive more on the same gas budget in the small block. Driving more is what ultimately makes these type of decisions for me.
"Hmmm ... so many ways this could go. How about this one?
If you were lucky enough to get one of the original 34 'true S/C' Cobras, you got a 520 HP 427. If you were less lucky and got the standard production version MkIII with the 427, you got 425 HP. If you were even less lucky, you got a 340 HP 428 (in Police Interceptor trim) and still technically got a 427 S/C MkIII Cobra. Likely with good tires and a nice launch, this was still a sub 12 second quarter miler and nothing to sneeze at.
However, this hoists the lowly 302 HO up a couple of steps in this particular big block/small block pi$$ing match. While there is no doubt that the 428 makes more power, it is also heavier, probably much more expensive, and with the plentiful aftermarket in 5.0 bolt-on's, you can relatively easily get the same or more HP out of the lighter, cheaper 302 block. "
There are myriads of upgrades for FE engines. My 428FE will dyno around 615hp. That's with 10.5:1 compression, a solid roller cam...and mainly some good old fashioned CNC head work and a good intake. It will be mild mannered and streetable....with upgrades still left to go if I wanted more power.
A 302 will not make that much power unless it's stroked, blown, squeezed, and juiced.
Even if it *did* make more power...there's plenty of naturally aspirated bolt-ons still left for the FE to turn it up a notch.
Big Blocker: You can get a big block to rev as high as you need it to. I'll be shifting mine at 7k. Could I spin it higher? Most definitely. The bottom end I have will stand it...and if I wanted to make my powerband up that high, it's as simple as a cam change.
Todd: I don't understand where you're saying the big block will be more expensive to maintain? How so?
I built my last engine...a 425 Windsor. I had just under $10k in it. My 428FE (that makes 100 more horsepower) will cost me about $9600.
If you were lucky enough to get one of the original 34 'true S/C' Cobras, you got a 520 HP 427. If you were less lucky and got the standard production version MkIII with the 427, you got 425 HP. If you were even less lucky, you got a 340 HP 428 (in Police Interceptor trim) and still technically got a 427 S/C MkIII Cobra. Likely with good tires and a nice launch, this was still a sub 12 second quarter miler and nothing to sneeze at.
However, this hoists the lowly 302 HO up a couple of steps in this particular big block/small block pi$$ing match. While there is no doubt that the 428 makes more power, it is also heavier, probably much more expensive, and with the plentiful aftermarket in 5.0 bolt-on's, you can relatively easily get the same or more HP out of the lighter, cheaper 302 block. "
There are myriads of upgrades for FE engines. My 428FE will dyno around 615hp. That's with 10.5:1 compression, a solid roller cam...and mainly some good old fashioned CNC head work and a good intake. It will be mild mannered and streetable....with upgrades still left to go if I wanted more power.
A 302 will not make that much power unless it's stroked, blown, squeezed, and juiced.
Even if it *did* make more power...there's plenty of naturally aspirated bolt-ons still left for the FE to turn it up a notch.
Big Blocker: You can get a big block to rev as high as you need it to. I'll be shifting mine at 7k. Could I spin it higher? Most definitely. The bottom end I have will stand it...and if I wanted to make my powerband up that high, it's as simple as a cam change.
Todd: I don't understand where you're saying the big block will be more expensive to maintain? How so?
I built my last engine...a 425 Windsor. I had just under $10k in it. My 428FE (that makes 100 more horsepower) will cost me about $9600.
The gas mileage thing is quickly becoming important even to those (like myself) that once didn't care! Many smallblock cars on here are pushing 400hp, or more - especially those who are supercharged, and still pulling mpg in the 20's. I've never seen a big block that got over 10-12 on a good day. I personally prefer the scream of a high rpm smallblock, even though big blocks do have an unmistakeable rumble when just cruising. I do think that at the end of the day, a smallblock car will get more use overall, not just because of mileage, but also because of the extra heat generated by the big block. Keep in mind that you will have the exhaust headers even closer to the footboxes than on a smallblock, as well as other heat radiating parts of the engine, including the block, and heads themselves.
just my $.02 on the subject...
Brian
just my $.02 on the subject...
Brian
I am headed up to summit point tomorrow for racing adventure III training. I feel pretty fast with the 302. It seems very balanced. I can lay into it in 3rd without worrying too much about the tires spinning like crazy. It's just manageable. Everytime I go there is a dozen or so cobras. The big blocks are usually at the rear of the pack. I think its too much. The drivers look hesitant with the throttle. THere comments are, "the nose feels heavy, the tires spin too easy." I am probably buying a new engine this year. I am definately going with a high hp 347ci (450-475). The torque of the big block down low doesnt help. My car spins easy already.
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