[BobAruba]

UPDATE-2

I thought I enjoyed driving the Cobra the first 20k miles until I took it out for it’s shakedown run with the new AFR heads circulating a fresh 10-1/2 system quarts of 10W30. A clear overcast day with mild temps allowed me to drive the Roadster home rather than trailer her back. The extra beef is obvious, due no doubt as a result of the much-improved head flow and breatheability... adding that the Edelbrock F28 intake to head port match was excellent using Fel Pro intake gasket PN: FEL-1262. Driving her is comparable to taking a wild bull out for a walk on a leash! This small block Cobra is no twinkle-toed, candy a$$ed grocery getter! Wwwoooiiieee! This is a giant killer! Uhhh... sorry, I almost lost it there for a minute. What I should have said was... I am impressed with the increased performance... these great heads really are instruments for speed that should be considered a welcome “Bolt on” addition to any Big SBF.

It’s going to be interesting to see how much RWHP was gained with the addition of these babies. The Cobra could rip through the gears before with 240 RWHP... and it still does now... only =faster... thank the Big Guy for bright shift lights (for us older guys). After mixed driving of over 150 miles from West Brookfield, MA to Newport, RI... I realized I could cruise on fast blacktop in a higher gear at lower RPM without lugging... yet the beast still remains manageable in barely moving traffic without stumbling. There is loads of low-end torque going on here. Chris Richards, as always, does great “Surgical” work. I am a happy man.

Shameless plug here: I’ve posted a few goodies with photos in the Parts For Sale classifieds for local pickup that are well worth the trip. Now it’s time to schedule a day at East Coast Speed for a little dyno tweaking... and UPDATE-3

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[BillKnight]

Bob, Did you avoid flycutting pistons?
What's your cam lift and duration.
I'm glad your back in action for good weather.
You've a great guy and I look forward to seeing you again at open house. Bill

 

[Mass Flo EFI Inc]

No flycutting. The lower end is completely stock. AFR 165's, E-303 cam, Crane 1.7 rockers, Stock length hardened pushrods. In this case no flycutting was nessecary, but if anyone out there is considering this combo, that doesn't mean that yours will fly. You should check piston to valve clearance. Deck heights vary from block to block. Bob's had enough clearance, but it didn't have any extra.

 

[BobAruba]

Thanks, Bill. I’m looking forward to seeing you at the OH too. I hope we’ll have better weather than last year. Maybe I’ll have a chance to check out your awesome looking “Bikini” top. I hope you bring it to display.

Because of Chris Richards’ meticulous attention to detail and clearances the pistons did not require “Fly cutting”. But rather than consider relieving any precious material no matter how slight in that sensitive area... I probably would have passed on the mod if it were required and gone with new pistons, which would have added to the final cost but would have left me with piece of mind.

The Ford Racing HP E-303 Hydraulic Roller Camshaft specs are...

Duration Int., Exh.: 282º, 282º (220º, 220º @ .050 inch Lobe Lift)
Lift: .498 intake, .498 exhaust
Lobe Center: 110º Intake and Exhaust
Peak RPM: Torque 2,500/HP 5,500

The “E” cam provides excellent low and mid-range power through 6.000 RPM and is a great little cam for use with superchargers, which was my original plan three years ago. It may be the mildest spec cam from Ford Racing but I like it just fine. It is working out great with the rest of the valve train components.

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Chris, you’re younger and faster on the post than I am and of course know more about engine building than I ever will. I hadn’t even considered that there could be a difference from block to block with the exact same components. I even enjoy reading this thread from the beginning occasionally. It is loaded with good info from knowledgeable guys like yourself. And thanks for setting the Roadster up the way you did. It is a sweet running dual quad block and it performs beyond my expectations.

 

[BobAruba]

The moment of truth is fast approaching... I’m scheduled for the distributor blue printing and dynamometer runs tomorrow, Thursday, May 6th at Karl’s East Coast Speed in Warwick, RI.

Now we’ll see what test results we can obtain with the addition of the AFR 165 heads. What ever the computer graph registers after the final tweaks will be posted here. Wish me luck!

To be continued... in UPDATE-3

[ May 06, 2004, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: BobAruba ]

 

[Jerry]

Good luck Bob. May the HP gods smile on you and your red roadster!

 

[BobAruba]

UPDATE-3...

Setting up on the DynaPack 3500 Chassis Dynamometer at Karl’s East Coast Speed…

As the Roadster’s rear axles were bolted up to the dyno... the moment of truth was fast approaching, now I thought, we’ll see how close we can come to the target of 340 RWHP.

After Karl Sr. at East Coast Speed patiently brought the vintage Ford DuraSpark distributor up to specs and fine tuned the dual quads’ air/fuel ratio resulting in optimum tuning capability with the timing set at 15º BTDC (total advance of 35º under power), the Autolite 3924 plugs gapped at .054 inch, carb secondary changes to .089, retaining primaries at .086, 10-1/2 fresh quarts of 10W30 and a full tank of Sunoco 93 we began the final run mid afternoon with sunny skies and mild Spring temps.

The unstroked 302 cubic inch naturally aspirated Ford small block using mostly bolt on aftermarket components gave it her all with a final run of 284 RWHP @ 5759 RPM and 283 Lbs. Ft. of RWT @ 4138 RPM resulting in a net gain of 44 RWHP with the installation of the AFR 165cc heads with 58cc combustion chambers.

Although we came up a little short of the 340 RWHP I would have liked to get closer to... she still has plenty of smooth power that will nail you to your seat while twisting to 6 grand and, I might add, she did 6000 RPM frequently last Thursday... and stayed glued together... beautifully. Another plus revelation... with the new AFR aluminum head installation the Roadster has shed 70 cast iron pounds!

Karl Sr. and Karl Jr. of East Coast Speed well known at area drag strips for their Mustangs capable of 8 to 9 second runs carried out the fine-tuning for optimum power. In my opinion no roller chassis dyno can come close to the accuracy and reliability of their DynaPack chassis dynamometer in Warwick, RI.

Chris Richards, pro FFR builder and dealer of Quality Roadsters, Inc. in West Brookfield, MA is responsible for the well thought out engine modifications and installation. Besides building my Roadster Chris also did the eye popping EFI to Dual Quad conversion carried out in beautiful detail last October of 2003.

Now I’m going to take a break from the HP Quest to enjoy the warm Summer months. Thanks guys!

5-6-04 Dyno Printout after The mods with the addition of the AFR heads...

Check out my new album “Quest for a Carbed and Unstroked 400 HP 302!” for the continuing saga and hopefully... the eventual attainment of that elusive 400 HP target... without using blowers or nitrous!

The Quest will continue after some Summer fun...

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Edited for grammar...

[ May 11, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: BobAruba ]

 

[BillKnight]

Bob...peak Hp..so what! Look at the torque curve from 2500 to 4000. That's the rush you feel when you punch it. Torque is what you feel. Not Peak HP.
I'm a torque junkie! I know what you mean about avoiding buying new pistons. That really added to my bill.
I think dollar for dollar, slapping on a KB over New pistons, crank work, etc. Is a good way to go.
Neither are cheap. But if you love torque, that KB will do the trick, in the future, of course!
I like spending your money!

 

[Jerry]

Looks Great Bob!!

 

[BobAruba]

Bill, you know that the Kenne Bell is the right way to go for monster torque... or any supercharger for that matter. But I believe the KB is at the top of the list.

Jerry, believe me, I’m happy with what I have. I can’t complain... besides, “It isn’t over until the fat lady sings”! We still have a couple of more bolt-ons planned for the future.

An interesting and surprising observation on the dyno last Thursday...

When an optimum state of tune was reached... two dyno runs... one run with two 6” dia. X 2” H air cleaner elements... and one run with both air cleaners removed resulted in a loss of 5 RWHP running without the air cleaners! I was amazed and thought the opposite would have happened.

It gave new found respect for air flowing to the carbs through simply constructed and basic in design air cleaners, which with their natural air flow “chamber” created within each 6” dia. Air cleaner and with a base providing a fluid transition from a flat surface curving toward the carb’s open neck must contribute to a great amount of uninterrupted, continuous and smooth air flow.

It would have been interesting to run a similar airflow test using the huge “COBRA” aluminum oval air cleaner but I had left it at home. I won’t forget it... next time.

Thanks guys...

 

[Ophitoxaemia]

thats a little lower than similar combos on mustangs. i wonder if the lack of an H pipe is hurting the peak power.

this is what i patterned my setup after:
Ingredients for one bad-ass car:

AFR 165cc Heads, cobra intake, FTI custom cam, BBK Jet-Hot LT's, Dr. Gas X, 3.73's, and stock short-block.
Cam specs: .050" is 219/224. Lift is .533/.547 w/ 1.6 rockers.

318.4rwhp/343.9rw-ft-lbs N/A SAE corrected

james

 

[Jerry]

Bob,

Looking at your torque curve, I think your peak torque @ 4100 RPM is low for what I expected to see. I was expecting to see something like 47-4800 RPM. This leads me to think you have an air flow restriction, perhaps on the intake side of things? Maybe it's the cam??? What headers are you running?

I'm worried that the problem is the F-28 manifold. I'm sure you have enough carb! I know you love the dual quads and would never think of asking you to change! I read that you port matched the F28 to the heads. Have you considered porting the F28? Remember, the 400 HP point was hit with a weiland stealth.

 

[BobAruba]

James, thanks for sharing your custom grind specs. That is a bad-a$$ ride… and beautiful. What size combustion chambers do your AFR’s have? Stock pistons, fly cut or aftermarket? Spark plug heat range? Timing?

Jerry, prepared to do some patient port matching Chris observed a near perfect F28 intake runner to head port match. The restriction could likely be in the exhaust area with the MAC 1-5/8 inch unequal length shorty headers flowing into J-pipes to the side exhaust. So an improved exhaust flow is on my short list for future improvements.

Several intake “shoot-outs” have concluded that the Weiand Stealth dual plane intake is probably the highest flowing intake out there right now along with the Edelbrock Performer, which has always rated high on the list. And you’re also correct about the cam but we’re going to attempt to retain it and follow up with a few other bolt on goodies in the future with more testing to observe the results. It will be interesting to see the results with each step of improvements we make with the addition of added components. I know we’ve got plenty of Carb/s but right now they’re tuned for optimum performance and are running beautifully.

I’ve all Summer to figure it out and discuss my plans with some great guys that have been doing this all of their lives. I know it won’t be easy but we’re about 56 RWHP away from obtaining my goal. And I really believe we can do it unstroked with a dual quad setup, using the E303, without supercharging or resorting to shots of nitrous!

 

[Wayne Presley]

Bob, Most of the MM&FF and 5.0 magazine testing is done on a Westec dyno which is very friendly with high HP numbers. Do you have graph of the air fuel ratio on the same page as the torque?

 

[BobAruba]

I just returned from Mike Dez Racing in Seekonk, MA where a few of the guys were running their supercharged rides on Mike’s chassis dyno. A guy could feel right at home there. There were hot street Mustangs all over the place! It seems like the air/fuel ratio/delivery was like a dark cloud over the dyno testing for the morning and might have been the gremlin of the day because it cut the performance results short of the true potential of at least three Cobras.

Wayne, I believe Karl can pull up that dyno screen with a graph of the air/fuel ratio on the same page as the torque and print out a copy for me but I won’t be able to pick it up and post it here until Monday. I hope you’ll check back then and provide me with your feedback. Thanks.

 

[Qwik 1]

Hey Bob,

It sounds like New England dragway might be the next stop for ya! There is a nostalgia day comming up on Sunday 5/30/04. I hope to attend.
They are fairly lienient on "nostalgia" days. Its also a great car show as its only oldies but goodies.

I dynoed Qwik 1 on Mike Dez's dyno a few years ago when he was at the old shop. Good guy!

[ May 08, 2004, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Qwik 1 ]

 

[BobAruba]

This is the dyno printout for the Fly Wheel Torque and the Air/Fuel Mixture Ratio on 5-6-04.

 

[o2world]

Bob, This is a really long thread, I hope I'm not asking something that hasn't already been covered here,.....

Your HP and Torque, seems really low, is there a reason for that? I have a 302 EFI completely rebuilt by me. Everything is new except the block, heads and crank. The block was bored 40 thou', the heads were ported, and the crank 10 and 10. I have a GT40 upper/lower intake, 70mm Throttle body, 24Lbs injectors, stock CAM, etc. I'm running a speed density setup because of the Holley Commander 950 EFI controller I'm running. Anyway, I'm getting 290 Horse, and 333Ft/lbs torque at the flywheel. Those are dyno'd results. It seems you are getting around that, a little less with the afr's. I am now going to switch to 165cc AFR's and 1.7 rockers, hoping to get 400 horse. So why do you think you are getting what you are getting? Is it feasible for me to assume I can get 400?

Oh, and does anyone know if I can use FMSM-6564-A50 Ford Motorsports 1.7 roller rockers with these heads? Seems everyone uses crane, or other. Will I need taller valve covers or spacers? I think my upper GT40 intake is already pretty close to the valve cover. If I have to use a riser for the upper intake I hope it will still clear the hood. Anyone running 1.7 roller rockers with a GT40 upper?

[ May 09, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: o2world ]

 

[BobAruba]

Brian, I’d like to make it but I have other commitments that weekend.

O2, I don’t really know why my readings are so low. After reading the car Craft Tech article “400 HP with a Stock Cam!” by Mike King I can only conclude that the Weiand intake PN: 925-8020, Road Demon Jr. carb PN: GPT-6282010V and Doug’s long tube Tri-Y headers are really pulling their weight and contributing handsomely to the setup.

The Edelbrock Performer F28 intake with two 500 CFM carbs (PN: 1404) is tuned for optimum performance on my setup right now. And believe it or not the MAC 1-5/8 inch tubed unequal shorty headers flowing through a pair of J-pipes do not perform as bad as some might think.

I’m looking for 60 to 80 more horse at the rear axle to give me a decisive 400 minimum at the crank. Would liked to have gotten there with the “E” cam and we tried but unless the parts “Formula” that CC used is followed to the letter I guess any parts variation could fall short with disappointing results.

I realize that after the addition of a set of good flowing heads the next biggest HP gain with a single part is going to be with an improved cam... a change I was trying to avoid. I’ve heard it before and it has been suggested to me that it is the E303 cam’s duration that is killing me and that it is the wrong cam to use... to go where I want to go. So it looks like there will be a cam change coming up in the future along with a couple of other goodies.

Aside from purchasing a crate motor or having the block built for my intended purpose from the start and avoiding spending the extra dollars for changed/replaced parts... it has been fun actually seeing the results in performance with parts changes recorded on the dyno.

If or rather, when I get there without using a supercharger or shots of nitrous and while going dual quad naturally aspirated... it will make that magic 400 horse at the crank seem all that much more sweeter...

 

[Eric Jacobs]

Let me chime in for a second - I have the AFR 165's with with 1.6 roller rockers and a carbed application. Oh ye a Holley 174 blower on top (6PSI for now). Last year i dynoed the car ending the pull early due to blow by through the carb and air out of the non friendly PVC valve and a shot MSD ignition box. Last year with this stellar combo i made like 370RWHP and like 375RWTQ. Since then i have replaced the ignition and corrected the other minor issues and hope to dyno again soon. This was on a Mustang Dyno (with Mo-Tec AFR meters) and i know it was not all the motor had due to the above conditions. I am eagar to jump back on any dyno for a quick pull or two as in the open house at FFR. All i want is over the 400 mark and this is with a blower. I really do not know how the 400 mark is that easy to reach with a shortblock and simply heads and bolt ons. Correct me if i am wrong on this or i am missing something. The way my motor sits i should be at the 400 mark, just the day i went to dyno i had some back luck and parts which were not 100% correct.

Eric