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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
During the week, we did get the 302 and the TKO 500 bolted together and dropped it in the frame.

The main reason for getting the motor in the car was to see if Whitby’s new A/C Heater/Defroster
Whitby Motorcars
would fit with FFMETAL’s Firewall Forward and a 302.

So the answer is… I am not sure?

Here are the details:

302 is mounted in the frame with the Alignment pins in the motor mount total jammed up to the top of the slot in the bracket welded to the frame – all mounting screw loose
The tranny is mounted on the tranny A frame bracket – All mounting hardware loose
There are no shims any where
The motor is about an 1/8” to a 1/4” lower on the DS than the PS.
The PS valve cover sits slightly below the heat shield on the A/C unit and the is ½’ of clearance between the PS Valve cover and the heat shield.

Questions.
1. Is that ½” enough?
2. Does the engine rock that much will having fun driving
3. The car is still on jack stands b/c my IRS rear axles are still not in, what else should I be trying to level to see how that might effect the ½ of clearance I currently have.
4. I do not think I can set the pinion angle yet and if I can I not sure how I do that
5. There are a lot of threads on raising the tail of the tranny, my tranny mount barely touches the tranny mount A Frame and the very tail of the tranny seems to be sitting on the frame. So i am assuming I have to shim it a little but I am not sure what height I am trying to achieve.

I was planning on temporarily attaching the header (ford race unequal length shorty headers, from FF5) I have so I can see if they are level

Pics...





The PS valve cover just goes under the A/C heat shield, by just in mean front to back. That there is just over a 1/2' of clearance based how things are currently installed and aligned.


 

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Not to be a "nay-sayer" - but if you ever need to pull the PS valve cover (oil leak or ???) will you be able to do so?
 

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Here is a thought I just came up with. I am kinda stepping out the box here and just throwing this out there.

I have mounted the same A/C unit in my car but without the forward firewall, so I do not know if this can be done.

  • Cut the hole per the template and try mounting it from inside the interior of the car toward the engine side. You do have to clear the lower drain vents so you may have to cut there to allow them to fit through the firewall. I would cut out some heavy paper board to simulate the firewall and practice mounting it from inside the car interior to see what kind of hole you really needed to get it through. You could also add a spacer to move the unit further into the interior but you still have to think about the drains and the space you would have to do that. You could possibly cut the bottom of the forward firewall to accommodate the drains moving toward the interior.
It would be nice to remove the aluminum firewall and replace it with a heavy paper board firewall and mock it up that way.

  • Now I'm thinking of cutting a large hole in the firewall/heavy paper mock up to allow the entire unit to fit through the hole from the engine side and then fit two 1-1/2" plywood spacers down from the top and up from the bottom to take up both the larger hole and space the unit back into the interior that 1-1/2". You could then put an aluminum cover plate to make up for the larger hole and cover the plywood for the engine side.

You may want to think about future servicing of the A/C unit. When I mounted my unit I did so to be able to remove it at a later date if it needed servicing. I mounted it with stainless steel button headed machine screws. It will not ever be easy to remove but I think it can be done. I have taken it out several times but that is with the body removed and no dash in place. With the above thoughts of mine it would just make it harder to remove but you may want to build that idea or concept into your solution.

George
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
George - Sounds like you installed the same unit with a regular Firewall. How was the room between the regular firewall and the dash for the air hoses, gauges and wires??? I am thinking of going with an ISIS for the harness?

Do you have any pics of your build at that stage?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Not to be a "nay-sayer" - but if you ever need to pull the PS valve cover (oil leak or ???) will you be able to do so?
I am a little worried about that but I have to take a closer look at that space without the heat shield. I might be forced to go with a regular firewall, yet.
 

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George - Sounds like you installed the same unit with a regular Firewall. How was the room between the regular firewall and the dash for the air hoses, gauges and wires??? I am thinking of going with an ISIS for the harness?

Do you have any pics of your build at that stage?
No, I'm not done yet. Later this winter I'll have some pictures. Yes, I have a standard firewall. I know it's going to be tight with the hoses for heat/cooling and running to the defroster vents will be a challenge but I have seen pictures of it being done. In addition, I'm running Smiths mechanical gauges. Lines for water and oil temperature, pressure line for oil pressure and a speedometer cable. The tachometer will run off electric.

Check out this site.
Quality Roadsters A/C & Heat System - Cobra Replicas - Install - Kit Car

I just found this. You may have forgotten it but you were part of the discussion asking about the forward firewall.
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/295897-air-conditioning.html

I'm close to getting back to work on the car again. I am going to put a mocked up engine in again to test fit it with a Trick Flow EFI system I've now got. I'll also fit a transmission up to get the engine level.

George
 

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The motor is about an 1/8” to a 1/4” lower on the DS than the PS.
To deal with this part of your issue, and it's only important if you're running 4 into 4 headers into sidepipes... (but it might give you a better idea of how much room you're really going to end up with on the PS)

The motor doesn't care if it's perfectly level, but you're going to care if your sidepipes don't line up.

1 - Install the headers + sidepipes temporarily, tighten the motor to motor mount bolts, leave the frame side of the motor mounts loose. Leave the frame mounts for the sidepipes off.

2 - Pick the motor up slightly with a lift and rotate it to get your sidepipes even side to side (up + down). Set the motor back down.

3 - The flexible part of the motor mount will take up the slack against the frame mount. It doesn't take much movement at the mounts to get it all lined up.


You may not want to do this right now, but bear in mind that this is going to become important later (assuming 4 into 4 headers).

HTH,

Mike
 

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I run that unit without the forward firewall. I don't think you can lift the valve cover enough to clear the last rocker with it under the heat shield. If the shield is the interference point, you could cut a portion of it out and make a little cover that's screwed on to cover the gap.

Re: Mike's leveling info. I will add you can enlarge the 4X4 mounting holes one drill size and get 1/2"+ wiggle room on the end of the side pipes. This will not compromise the seal. Another tip, trash the gasket between the header and side pipe in favor of the copper high temp RTV gasket maker. Never blows out, loosens up or degrades.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Check out this site.
Quality Roadsters A/C & Heat System - Cobra Replicas - Install - Kit Car

I just found this. You may have forgotten it but you were part of the discussion asking about the forward firewall.
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/295897-air-conditioning.html


George
George - Thanks the article is great. Yes I remember being part of that thread but thought I could make it would. I am going to go back to a regular FW. Probably get the FFMetal FW as it is a little heavier than the F5.

The reasons I went thru the whole exercise of trying the Forward FW - A/C combination was because I could and I love just working on the car (plus me and my Father had fun). The other was I drilled all the holes in a zigzag pattern on the top of the 2x2 frame already and was trying to avoid drilling another long set of holes in the front of the same frame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To deal with this part of your issue, and it's only important if you're running 4 into 4 headers into sidepipes... (but it might give you a better idea of how much room you're really going to end up with on the PS)....

You may not want to do this right now, but bear in mind that this is going to become important later (assuming 4 into 4 headers).

HTH,

Mike
Mike & Greg - Thank you for the comments. I have not taken my headers out so this might become clearer when I do this weekend, what do you mean 4 into 4? Also I have seen a lot of threads about making the hole the alignment pin on the mount sits in longer to give you more room to align the side pipes. Neither of you mentioned that - Thanks again for all the help
 

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what do you mean 4 into 4? Also I have seen a lot of threads about making the hole the alignment pin on the mount sits in longer to give you more room to align the side pipes. Neither of you mentioned that
If your headers look like this, those are 4 into 4. The other option is stock exhaust manifolds (reversed) into j-pipes.





Regarding making the alignment hole bigger - it will *probably* be ok as is. If not you'll have to do something with it.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If your headers look like this, those are 4 into 4. The other option is stock exhaust manifolds (reversed) into j-pipes.


Regarding making the alignment hole bigger - it will *probably* be ok as is. If not you'll have to do something with it.

Mike
Got it thanks
 

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The other was I drilled all the holes in a zigzag pattern on the top of the 2x2 frame already and was trying to avoid drilling another long set of holes in the front of the same frame.
I should edit out the following but I'll leave it here for now-see edit below
Drill out the rivets and use the forward firewall lip as a template for the new holes in the new firewall. Clamp and drill right through the old holes. Once two holes are drilled and you are sure of its alignment use cleco's to keep it in line and drill the rest.

Actually, to make a better firewall buy a piece of .090" 6061 aluminum and use the original piece (.040") from FFR as a template for the new thicker firewall. Use a scroll saw with a fine blade to cut it out. I used a band saw on my outside cuts and a scroll saw for the inside cuts. Just take your time to work up to the line you are cutting on. You can always file to the line later. You'll have to get used to the scroll saw method in order to cut out the hole for the A/C unit to fit into, so do it yourself.

I really wanted to use the forward firewall concept too as it would allow more room behind the dash for all the stuff I'm doing. But finally realized it was a no go for me. I'll just have to tough it out. I will still end up with a glove box with about an inch of space for the A/C knobs (other members modification) and a map or registration.

George

Edit: Just visited your build site for the second time in a while. I'll spend more time there later but I noticed the forward firewall does not mount onto the frame the same way the regular firewall does. So forget part of what I said above.
 
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