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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone found an engine start/stop button and/or module available on the 'net? I'm looking for something like what the Prius, FX35, new Caddys, etc use, NOT like the S2000-style engine start only.
 

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I tried to do it with a BMW 3 series button but it was too much work with that button. I could not find a wiring diagram anywhere. My brother made a simple circuit with a couple relays and you would need sensors attached to know when the car is running so the starter would not operate.

I was going to install a clutch switch and ebrake switch. all in series before the starter would work. Then a oil pressure switch so the starter would not operate when the engine was running.

If you are a litttle knowledgable in elecronics you can experiment with any switch, a couple relays, and some leds

stack
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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I took a quick look at the Lexus start/stop button wireing diagram at work a few months ago. It has about 12 wires.Looks like there is also some circuit board/simple ECU in there.Seems way too much trouble to try to use it to me but your thoughts(enjoyment of electrical challenges) may be different.Good luck
 

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At this point, I'm still planning on developing my own (with fingerprint recognition for the "ignition key"). But, I probably won't get around to it until this winter some time. Let me know if you're interested. If there's enough interest, I may get started sooner...
 

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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
fingerprint recognition sounds awfully pricey, but I would be interested in a normal start/stop button if u want to develop one as a trial before working in the complexity of the fingerprint stuff. I already have my key alternative in hand, so security is covered.

you wouldn't happen to have part #s or prices for the lexus setup, would you?
 

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What should the shut off procedure be? I've never actually tried a car with start/stop button...

Hold button down for x.x seconds to stop car?
- or -
"double-click" to stop car?
- or -
????

Will the stop procedure ALWAYS shut down the engine? Or only if the car is at a standstill? What happens if you're flying down the hiway at 60MPH and your passenger decides to find out what the shiny red button does...? I definitely vote for ALWAYS shut it down, otherwise how would you handle emergency stuck throttle, etc. situations.

What input(s) would be best to look at to determine if the engine is running? Oil pressure has been mentioned. Tach signal would be an obvious possibility... Others?

How about a "patent-pending Morse Code Ingition Key". Just tap in a quick code like
... ..- .--. . .-. -.-. --- -... .-. .- ..-. .-. .- --. .. .-.. .. ... - .. -.-. . -..- .--. .. .- .-.. .. -.. --- -.-. .. --- ..- ...
and the ignition is enabled...

OK, I'll admit
... ..- .--. . .-. -.-. --- -... .-. .- ..-. .-. .- --. .. .-.. .. ... - .. -.-. . -..- .--. .. .- .-.. .. -.. --- -.-. .. --- ..- ...
may be bordering on insanity (unless you've a ham license), but I'm actually quite serious about an "ignition key" based on a user-settable button press sequence.

[ July 12, 2006, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Arachnyd ]
 

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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by Arachnyd:
What should the shut off procedure be? I've never actually tried a car with start/stop button...

Hold button down for x.x seconds to stop car?
- or -
"double-click" to stop car?
- or -
????

Will the stop procedure ALWAYS shut down the engine? Or only if the car is at a standstill? What happens if you're flying down the hiway at 60MPH and your passenger decides to find out what the shiny red button does...? I definitely vote for ALWAYS shut it down, otherwise how would you handle emergency stuck throttle, etc. situations.


What input(s) would be best to look at to determine if the engine is running? Oil pressure has been mentioned. Tach signal would be an obvious possibility... Others?

How about a "patent-pending Morse Code Ingition Key". Just tap in a quick code like
... ..- .--. . .-. -.-. --- -... .-. .- ..-. .-. .- --. .. .-.. .. ... - .. -.-. . -..- .--. .. .- .-.. .. -.. --- -.-. .. --- ..- ...
and the ignition is enabled...

OK, I'll admit
... ..- .--. . .-. -.-. --- -... .-. .- ..-. .-. .- --. .. .-.. .. ... - .. -.-. . -..- .--. .. .- .-.. .. -.. --- -.-. .. --- ..- ...
may be bordering on insanity (unless you've a ham license), but I'm actually quite serious about an "ignition key" based on a user-settable button press sequence.
I vote for a 2-second hold to kill the engine. Also I think that it should be killable anytime, just like a regular ignition. When in doubt, just look at how the OEMs have theirs configured and mimick, they've surely put lots of thought into their systems. Will you be able to manufacture or source a qualtiy-looking start/stop button?
 

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You could use the hold it down but I would prefer a latching relay that held the button off for 2-3 seconds to make sure it shut off. In case of an accident anyone could shut it down with out knowing the precedure.

As for a quality button my BMW start/stop button is mint if I only could get it to work. The button itself has a chip and about 12 pins. I metered it out and none have conectivity when the button is pressed. I probably could get it to work if I had a wiring diagram.

I was trying to go no key but was talked into it in case the car was stolen. I am waiting for the RF key from isquared just like the new vettes have so I can just jump in and go.

I can post the ladder drawing that my brother made if someone knows how to convert it from visio

stack
 

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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I am going no-key. Well, no traditional key. I found a passive immobilizer setup that detects when my key is within the proximity of the driver's seat and will be wiring the ignition, fuel pump relay, etc thru that. The only thing I need is one switch that will both provide a momentary circuit for the starter as well as know how to switch from engine start to engine kill.
 

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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by Stack:

As for a quality button my BMW start/stop button is mint if I only could get it to work. The button itself has a chip and about 12 pins. I metered it out and none have conectivity when the button is pressed. I probably could get it to work if I had a wiring diagram.stack
If it has a chip, that's probably why you aren't getting any continuity when the button is pressed. I imagine the chip needs to be energized for the button function to work.
 

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The BMW button sound interesting, but I'm guessing it's probably too smart to be a stand-alone solution. It's probably tapped right into the communication bus and talking directly with the various electrical systems in the car (i.e. engine computer, anti-theft module, etc.). I wouldn't be suprised if there aren't any actual OPEN/CLOSE switch contacts...
 

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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Arachnyd PM me your phone #, I am very interested in seeing this come to light in the very near future and would be more than willing to contribute to a brainstorming session or something to help bring this to fruitation sooner.
 

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Originally posted by cheap:
I am going no-key. Well, no traditional key. I found a passive immobilizer setup that detects when my key is within the proximity of the driver's seat and will be wiring the ignition, fuel pump relay, etc thru that. The only thing I need is one switch that will both provide a momentary circuit for the starter as well as know how to switch from engine start to engine kill.
I'm interested in the solution you found. My wife just bought a Lexus with a proximity key. The key stays in your pocket; push the button with your foot off the brake is the same as turning the key to the accessories positions, with your foot on the brake, a push and release starts the car, when the car is running pushing the button turns the car off.
 

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I am interested in the prox solution as well. How do you plan to keep people posted? Just let me know what you need.

TIA,
Stan
 

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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have the proximity sensor and key fobs but no switch was ever developed to start AND kill the engine. I haven't been working on the car since I have been busy with military duties and cannot remember off the top of my head where the prox system came from, but google passive immobilizer and you should find what you need.
 

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Excellent! Thanks!
 

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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
no problem. All you need for the start stop switch is a way to integrate a switching relay so that when there is a signal from an oil pressure switch the button knows the engine is already running and switches to a stop mode.
 

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Gelcoat Driving Maniac!
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I am intereseted in working on something like this, but I'm not quite sure what the engine stop switch would have to do, electrically that is.

I plan to go with the same type of passive imobilizer that has been discussed above so that will enable the circuit going to the starter switch. Obviously, when you press the switch with the engine off, it would crank the starter and you'd release the switch when the engine started.

So, once the engine is running, what would an engine kill switch do? Is there a constant circuit that would have to run through a relay and then the engine stop button would cut that relay until the engine start button is pressed again?
 

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Zipper-suited sun god and
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The idea was to have one button do both functions. It would require some relay logic or easier yet, a microprocessor that uses something like an oil pressure switch to determine if the engine is running or not. It would be easy to do if you know how to program/install microprocessors and can find a suitable button manufacturer.
 
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