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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone used a return spring on the Wilwood brake pedal? I have just a little bit of slop in the pedal before it pushes on the masters. About 300miles on the car now and a few time I have gotten out and the brake lights were on. I adjusted the switch once and still happened. If I push the pedal kind of hard and then let off it will go out. Seems like with a very light stop I don't get enough return. I could keep adjusting the switch in more but when I do that I feel like I have to use too much brake to get it to turn on. I like the thought of the brake lights coming on as soon as my foot hits the pedal.
 

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I don't think brake pedals should have return springs. The last thing you want is to pull the push rod away from the master cylinder.

You need to adjust your brake light switch to where a light touch of the pedal makes the lights come on. The lights should be coming on before the brakes engage. The other end of the spectrum is that you don't want your brake lights to flash when you hit a bump. But you want to be close to that.
 

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Official OLD GUY
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Absolutely

Quote: "I don't think brake pedals should have return springs. The last thing you want is to pull the push rod away from the master cylinder.

You need to adjust your brake light switch to where a light touch of the pedal makes the lights come on.
"

Absolutely - adjust your switch, DO NOT add a spring to the pedal or pushrod.

Doc :beerchug:
 

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If you still have the switch FF used to supply with their kits, that itself could be the problem. On #8674, I would come out to the garage the next day after driving and the brake lights would be on. Adjust...adjust...and it would be OK for a while and then do it again. Took the switch out and found it had a very narrow range of switching motion. So just the slightest variation and it would leave the lights on. Changed to an ACDelco D885 GM Original Equipment Brake Light Switch (Amazon or elsewhere) and it has a much wider switching window. I've had zero issues since. For my Coupe kit, I see that FF is supplying different switches now. Haven't checked them yet.

Here's a picture. Original FF supplied switch on the left. Delco D885 on the right. The longer plunger on the Delco switch is pretty obvious and it's much less critical to adjust.

 

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Discussion Starter #6
If you still have the switch FF used to supply with their kits, that itself could be the problem. On #8674, I would come out to the garage the next day after driving and the brake lights would be on. Adjust...adjust...and it would be OK for a while and then do it again. Took the switch out and found it had a very narrow range of switching motion. So just the slightest variation and it would leave the lights on. Changed to an ACDelco D885 GM Original Equipment Brake Light Switch (Amazon or elsewhere) and it has a much wider switching window. I've had zero issues since. For my Coupe kit, I see that FF is supplying different switches now. Haven't checked them yet.

Here's a picture. Original FF supplied switch on the left. Delco D885 on the right. The longer plunger on the Delco switch is pretty obvious and it's much less critical to adjust.


Thanks edwardb! I actually had to buy a replacement for the FF5 switch. It fell apart before I even got the car on the road. I think I bought a Ron Francis switch to replace it. It also has a very narrow on/off window. I'll give the ACDelco switch a try.
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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I think 'don't use a spring on a brake pedal' is too general a statement.. I have one on mine because the spring in the brake switch is a bit too strong. Also there are many MCs where the push rod is captured so no chance of pulling it out.
 

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If you still have the switch FF used to supply with their kits, that itself could be the problem. On #8674, I would come out to the garage the next day after driving and the brake lights would be on. Adjust...adjust...and it would be OK for a while and then do it again. Took the switch out and found it had a very narrow range of switching motion. So just the slightest variation and it would leave the lights on. Changed to an ACDelco D885 GM Original Equipment Brake Light Switch (Amazon or elsewhere) and it has a much wider switching window. I've had zero issues since. For my Coupe kit, I see that FF is supplying different switches now. Haven't checked them yet.

Here's a picture. Original FF supplied switch on the left. Delco D885 on the right. The longer plunger on the Delco switch is pretty obvious and it's much less critical to adjust.

I shortened the black housing on the ffr switch. This way, it increases the travel of the plunger. The plunger can go deeper in the switch without problem. Otherwise, it very difficult to have the switch adjusted correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well its doing it again.... Now I have 3,800 miles on the car and the brake lights stayed on yesterday when I returned from a drive. Stepped on the pedal a couple of times and it went out. I switched to the ACDelco D885 GM switch in 2018 when Paul recommended it. I adjusted one other time between then and now. So this will be the third time it needs adjusted in 3,800 miles. Do others have this same problem? I have a complete Wilwood system. Pedal box, balance bar, masters and brakes. I have some slop in the pedal at rest. I assume that is due to the function of the balance bar. I asked about using a return spring back in 2018. A couple guys said no due to pulling the pushrod away from the master. But as Craig said you can't do this with these masters. I can't think of a reason why you couldn't use one. But at the same time I feel like it shouldn't be necessary. Is it the pedal slop changing or the switch backing out of adjustment? Could some pad knock be affecting this? I don't think so but..... (that's another issue I would like to make better). What are your thoughts on a pressure switch instead of the mechanical? I really just want the lights to work correctly.
 

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Balance Bar and Push Rod Adjustment - This is what I did:

I think adjusting the push rods would help here as you say you’ve got some slop before the pedal starts working. I adjusted the push rods to the point where they were just beginning to put tension on the brake cylinders. In doing this it raises the brake pedal toward you taking that slop out of the system. When I did mine, I had everything open and removed the push rod rubber boots so I could see the back of the cylinder as it just came home against the retaining clip and the brake pedal was at its highest point without putting pressure on the cylinder. As I adjusted the rods I would also look at the clevis pin and the tension it was putting on the clevis and then the push rod. I adjusted the rods to just take away any movement in the clevis pin without pushing on the cylinder causing it to move, in turn, putting pressure on the fluid.

George
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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I disagree. I use the position of the brake switch and it's threaded adjustment (pedal against the outer threaded sleeve so plunger is fully depressed) as my pedal up travel stop. Captured pushrods can also be used but not all FFRs have them and they are a lot more of a pain to access. So I adjust the brake switch to put the pedal where I want it and then use a spring to pull the pedal against the plunger spring inside the switch. This has been an ultra reliable system which overcame the exact problem the OP has 12 years ago.
 
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