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Hello All, Just joined the forum. I am in the early stages of the quest for a Cobra. (non donor car path) and have started to collect bits and pieces for the build.
I have a coworker that has a Cleavor Boss 302 for sale that he built for his 65' mustang. In the end he decided to redo the stock 289 that came with the car instead.
I am looking for some insight on the value of the engine and thoughts on how it would work in a Cobra. (Non EFI) I appoligize for the long post but his description of the engine is very thorough and detailed.
Thanks for your thoughts, Andy

This engine was assembled using a Ford Boss 302 short block (original OEM block, crank, main bearing caps, dampner, and piston rods) and 2V open-chamber Cleveland heads machined for this application.

This combination requires a Street Boss intake manifold (supplied) made specifically for this application. It is known as a “Clevor” engine combining both the advantages of a stout 4-bolt main-cap Boss block, forged steel crank, and extra-strength rods with the smaller 2V Cleveland intake/exhaust ports for better low-end torque and streetability. The open chamber heads using stock Boss 302 popup pistons will provide approximately a 9.1:1 compression ratio that is more suitable to the street than the original 11:4:1 to 12.2:1 ratio for the Boss 302. There is some controversy regarding the use of open vs. closed chamber (also known as the Australian head) 2V Cleveland heads for this application (although I do not know if an intake manifold is available) due to the potential of detonation problems with the open chamber style head. It is recommended that premium gasoline be used even with the 9.1:1 compression ratio. I will supply all of the information that I have from the various sources that were used to assemble this engine.

Although, it is offered for sale as a semi-complete engine, stock Boss 302 heads (which I do not have) can be readily fitted to the short block since nothing has been modified except the Cleveland heads. I do have a stock Boss 302 intake manifold available (for sale separately) with a corner of the head flange broken off near the distributor. It may be possible to repair, but I do not have the missing piece.

Please note that this engine has been sitting assembled on an engine stand for about 10 years with the rocker arms loosened and the cylinders lubricated. It can still be turned by hand, but some disassembly is suggested to ensure that the cam and lifters are properly lubricated before completing the motor. The engine does not come with a carburetor, distributor, or accessory brackets. Other parts to be supplied are listed later. This engine was assembled with care and top quality parts. It is expected that there should be no problems with completing this engine; however, I cannot offer any warranty since there are too many unknowns in how the motor is eventually completed. It will be up to the buyer to confirm all of the clearances and assembly. The following information is as complete and honest as I can provide.

Main Components
Block – C8FE-6015B, 8L15 Ford Boss 302 OEM, stock bore, used. This block is supposedly an early Trans-Am racing block that was installed in some ’69 Boss 302’s after Ford encountered production problems with the early ’69 castings. It can supposedly be over-bored 0.040” vs. the standard 0.030”. This may or may not be correct, and it is not meant to indicate that this block is any rarer than other Boss blocks. The previous history of this block is not known as far as use and machining, except it was cylinder honed before receipt, and it was a very clean block with an original bore within stock specs. It has the original 4-bolt main bearing caps. Screw-in freeze plugs and oil galley plugs appear original, but the oil galley plugs may have been replaced. Head and intake manifold deckings were checked and within stock specs. Cam bearings were already installed, but checked and are within specs.

Crank – D0ZE-6303A, Ford Boss 302 OEM, used, machined 0.010” under. This is an original Boss 302 forged steel crank, although probably not for this block based upon the casting numbers.

Rods – C3AE, GL45 BYG, Ford Boss 302 OEM, assumed used. These are original Boss 302 rods. They have been shot peened and polished, and are drilled for piston pin lubrication. They were so clean as received that it is not known if they were used.

Pistons – TRW L2325, aluminum, full floating standard bore , 12.1 cc dome volume, 1.53” compression height, 12.2:1 compression ratio with stock Boss 302 heads. These are replacement pistons due to the skirt cracking problem encountered with early Ford Boss 302 OEM pistons. 7 of these are new. The 8th was obtained used from Total Performance with little dynamometer run time and wear.

Dampner – Ford Boss 302 OEM, used. This damper is required for this motor/crank.

Heads – 1970 2-V Cleveland heads, open chamber. Ford OEM, used. Water passages machined to fit Boss 302. Slight intake, exhaust port matching and internal casting cleanup were done.

Intake Manifold – B&A Ford Performance Street Boss, aluminum 4 barrel. This is required to fit 2V 351C heads to a Boss 302 block.

Cam Shaft – Competition Cams 280 Magnum Cam, 31-226-3, 280 IN/EX duration, 0.529” IN/EX lift for Boss 302. This cam is a street machine, high performance cam which should provide a somewhat nicely choppy engine lope while maintaining strong intake manifold vacuum.

Valves – 1970 2-V Cleveland, Ford OEM, used, 3-angle valve seat reface.

Lifters – Rhodes hydraulic, new.

Valve Springs – Crower Racing, dual spring, new.

Rocker Arms – Dove 351C aluminum roller rocker, new.
Other Components
Head Bolts – B&A Performance, chrome-moly, new.
Push Rods -- B&A Performance, Ford Boss 302 OEM, new
Push Rod Guide Plates – B&A Performance, Ford Boss 302 OEM, new
Timing Chain – Milodon Tru-roller, new.
Cam Retainer/Eccentric – Ford OEM, new.
Valve Locks/Retainers – Lunati 7 deg, new.
Windage Tray – C9ZZ-6687B, Ford OEM, new.
Valve Seals – Sealed Power, teflon seal, new.
 

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I actually owned a '69 Boss 302. Sweet car. It would wind like an electric motor. Torque? Not so much. My EFI 5.0 has much more low end grunt. It I turned on my Lucas Flamethrowers at idle the alternator drag would almost kill the Boss's engine.
IMHO, you're asking for a real challenge. You can make the same HP or more without all the offbeat stuff. Unless you're really into the idea that you'd have a, "sort of" a Boss 302 motor, I'd pass and go with something much more conventional.
Just my $.02.
Good luck.

d



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That sounds like it would make a great engine! The main issue you will have is that you will most likely need custom made headers. If you don't mind me asking - how much does he want for it?

Brian
 

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For an FFR, ditch the 2V's and get a set of open chamber 4V's if you insist on custom headers. Otherwise, bolt on a good set of 302/351W-style heads and use all of the regular FFR parts.
My opinion.....
HTH
-Matt
 

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FFCobra Fanatic
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Holy Crap!

Too much information.. and not enough. What does your co-worker want for the engine?

As I see it, that block would be golden for someone restoring a Boss 302.

I'd say it'd be a unique, if pricey, powerplant for a MkIII. Non original to a Cobra so it might as well be a 5.0 to a period correct Cobra buff.

If the motor was yours and was sitting there collecting dust, I'd say use it. If you can get it cheap and really want to use it, by all means, buy it and use it. If you want a car that'll scoot and you're on a budget, you can probably do a lot better for less $$$.

Of course, this is without knowing what the guy wants for the engine.

Don't get me wrong, I love all that old school hardware but it is 35 year old technology (for the most part). The age of clean air has forced manufacturers to make power much more efficiently that'll run on crappy pump gas.

As I recall, the stock Boss 302's had a pretty lumpy idle so I think it'd be really cool if it was bone stock ... but that's just my opinion.

I'm sure you'll hear from some Boss buffs that'll drool over it, however.

Good luck with whatever you decide ohhhh ...

And Welcome!!

-- Tim
 

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It is a CLEVOR. The only parts that are BOSS is the Block. This a look a like engine. The 2V heads are most likely from a 351/400 M. I build these engines also and they are very good engines. Better take a look at the block mains for hairline cracks in them. This is the B/A setup from FT. Smith ARK.If you buy the CLEVOR you will have to build a custom exhaust system for your COBRA.This is the only real problem you will have to deal with.
 

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If the price is right, and you want it, do it.
I have a 351C with closed chamber 2V Australian heads in a '68 Cougar XR-7. Comp Cams 268H camshaft(very mild), C6 auto and 3.70 posi. Torque is not a problem, and the Cougar weighs around 3200 pounds.
Just my .02.

Chris :cool:
 

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I just recently (3 weeks ago today) parted with a 70 Boss I'd owned for 23 years (sigh) & although we have had countless great drives and cruises in that Calypso Coral beast, you might want to keep in mind that Boss 302 engine parts are becoming fairly scarce and QUITE pricey!! I think this might end up being more frustration than enjoyment in this case.
 

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Cleavor? half Cleveland half Windsor? never heard of this......then again, I've always been involved with Chevys....just curious.....
Ben
 

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Clevor=Cleveland (Heads) + Windsor (302/351W Block)
Not OEM way of getting Cleveland-style (read better breathing )heads on the common small block. Requires a custom intake because of the difference in cooling layouts.
With the improvements in 302/351 style parts, is te effort worth it?
-Matt
 

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Andy,
Do yourself a favor and hold off on this one.

The 2V open chambers are not worth the effort. It's not even a close call in my opinion.

You'll be going through a bunch of hoops for almost no gain in performance. The Cleveland splayed valve head design is good, but out of the box they just are not that great, especially in the case of the open chamber castings.

The only way I would build this thing would be with ported, closed chamber, Aussie 2V heads, and those are hard to find, not cheap, and you'll still be dealing with the intake and headers issues.

If your buddy wants to sell the short block, it might be worth the effort to use that, and put a set of better, cheaper, more common heads on the motor that will let you use standard intake manifolds and headers.

Your only problem there is the pistons are made and cut with reliefs for the splayed Cleveland valves.

About the only heads I can think of that would work with those pistons would be the Ford Racing N351 style, or maybe a set of Trick Flow heads. The N351 will require custom headers, and they use specific, offset rocker arms. Intake would be a Victor Jr or Performer RPM.

You would probably be better off putting different pistons in the block.

Hope this helps you make a decision.
 

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For a 302 displacement engine you have better choices using todays aftermarket Winsor style heads . Having owned 3 Boss 302 Mustangs years ago the lack of low end torque would not be a problem in a car that is 1000 lbs lighter than a Mustang , however you may be better off parting out this engine due to "collector" value . The block alone is worth $2000 to the right person , crank $6 to $800 , rods $500 for the set, the Roller rockers will fit 302/351C as well as BB Chevy. So if hes willing to sell the whole thing for $2000 to $2500 it might be worth it otherwise go elsewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks to all for the replies. My guy wants $2200 for the setup which includes a 4 speed trans. It sounds like the more sane way to go for this endevor is to buy a create motor from Ford or somhing similar. I'm looking for good street performance not anything outragous.

Any suggestions on whats available in the 3k range for a non donor build. I'm planning on pulling the tigger for the build in about 18 months.

I have a lot to learn about replicar Cobras. I'm a MOPAR guy so please be patient
. I have a 1969 Dodge Dart GT with a '68 340 in it right now. My Mom bought the car new in '69. I actually rode home from the dealer in it! I was 6.
 
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