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Discussion Starter #1
I'm doing a MkIII non donor build and am ready to locate a pedal box. I would appreciate all opinions on the following questions, especially if you've experienced both types of pedal boxes firsthand...

1. Is there any difference between early(Fox) padal boxes and later(SN-95) pedal boxes that I need to consider when selecting between the two?

2. Is it necessary to bend/spread brake & clutch pedals(I'm 6' tall w/size 10.5 clodhoppers)?

3. Is it necessary to shorten the pedals? If yes, are there any negative ramifications(hard to engage cluth, modulate brake, etc.)?

Thanks Gentlemen!
Chris
 

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Chris

1. I don't know. Sorry, bud.

2. I've got the Fox pedals and I can attest that you absolutely must bend the pedals to get a size 10 foot in there. If you leave the footbox stock (ie. big block or 4.6), then you'll likely need to bend them a lot.

3. You need to shorten the pedal if you use a non-powered master cylinder. If you decide to modify the frame to fit a brake booster, then you do not need to modify the pedals.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Feddersen

Since I'm going carbed, I was not planning to use a booster.

Regarding #3. If I shorten the pedals, won't that reduce the amount of leverage the the pedal applies to the master cylinder?

Will I regret not using a booster?

Sometimes the planning aspect is more grueling than turning wrenches...

Chris
 

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Actually, you're changing the pivot point, not the leverage. Here's an example:



The image is looking up from the floor. If you notice, when you move your pedal down, the point of attachment for the master cylinder push rod also moves down. Thus, you have to cut out a center section of the pedal so the push rod attachment matches up with the master cylinder.



The manual brakes take some getting used to. I feel like I have to really stand on them to stop in a hurry. I'd seriously consider using a booster.

HTH
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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Mike, Can you tell us the difference between the early and late pedal boxes, and the advantage and disadvantages of both. It would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks
 

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Hey Mike I PM'd you.,..check it when you get a chance. THnx

Elie
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Fedderson

Thanks for the pics...that helps.

Anyone aware of the pros/cons of the early vs. later pedal boxes?

How difficult are the pedals to bend?
 

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I have a 99 pedal box and it has ben a pain in the ...well you know. I had to drill out the spot welds on the back of the box to remove the spacers, then re weld the back plate back on. The holes aren't in the right place, nor are they all the right size to bolt up to the mount plate on my Mark III. The midle cross bar had to be cut out or my peddal would have lost about an inch or two of travel foward. My master cylinder will have to be raised about an inch or the brake rod will bind, unless it is low on the pedal(don't want to loose leverage). I am also having to cut the pivot shaft about 1/2" and slide the pedal to the right to get the brake rod to line up straight. It looks like after all that I will need to bend the pedals to where I want them. I also had to cut the clutch pedal stop so the gas pedal would not hit it. There is no telling what mods you would have to make if you plan on running a power booster. I was begining to wonder if FF had screwed up on my car. My mount for my steering block was also set about 3 1/2" inches to the right. If I would have known there was a diffirence I would have went with the old style box.
 

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The early and late pdal boxes are physically completely different. I have not heard of all the problems that duck hunter is having. I have not installed a late model box in a car though.
I personally like the late boxes better. they look much stronger and more compact. In the end they both do the same job.
All my pedal boxes come with the pdal mod done if needed. Also the bushings are removed on the late model boxes before they are shipped. That way you will not have to cut off the plate and reweld.
here is a hint for those that are modifing there own late pedal box. Instead of cutting off the plate to remove the bushings, put each bushing in a vise and crack it. Turn the bushing 90 dgrees and do it again. Then pull out the peices. they are made of a real brittle metal and will break very esily.
 

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To add another opinion from someone who has the power brakes and is over 6' tall....I second exactly what Fedderson has already said...plus

Mine stops HARD with very little effort using the stock length pedal, power booster and slightly bent pedal (approx 1" to the left) with all stock 4-lug front disk/rear drum setup. The only thing I would add is a distribution block for the front to rear adjustment. The fronts lock up way before the rears, I will be adding this in the summer.
 

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I'm using a late pedal box and while it did take some work to get it all right it was not that difficult. My experiences are similar to Duckhunter but I did things a bit different.

My box was from another builder and it appeared the pedals had been bent but I needed to actually bend them back and now they are nearly straigth and fit well. I have offset my AC pedal pads to the best advantage for my size 13 feet.

I just removed the rear bracket. It was not too difficult.I did need to cut the clutch stop a bit and trim the upper front corner from the box. I drilled an extra hole where my master cylinder bolts in.

I both lowered and moved my brake pivot toward the front of the car to get a better angle to avoid the frame crossbar and also gives a better angle for the brake stroke to not go past vertical.

I ground off the pushrod pin from the brake pedal and drilled a hole, once the pivot was relocated, to mount a bolt to attach the pushrod to. I made an adjustable pushrod from a 5/16 female heim joint and a bolt with the head ground off. Right now the pushrod needs to be spaced 1/2" from the side of the brake pedal so I have spacers to do that but I may need to weld something in more solid to the side of the pedal.

In the end my pedal has about a 7 to 1 ratio a good angle and aligns well with the master cylinder. All things you seem to need for a good manual setup. I like the way things are and the late box is more compact but I think the mods to an early box may be more straightforward. In any case I would put time into making sure you have things set up well when you are done.
 

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Originally posted by Duckhunter:
I have a 99 pedal box and it has ben a pain in the ...well you know. I had to drill out the spot welds on the back of the box to remove the spacers, then re weld the back plate back on. The holes aren't in the right place, nor are they all the right size to bolt up to the mount plate on my Mark III. The midle cross bar had to be cut out or my peddal would have lost about an inch or two of travel foward. My master cylinder will have to be raised about an inch or the brake rod will bind, unless it is low on the pedal(don't want to loose leverage). I am also having to cut the pivot shaft about 1/2" and slide the pedal to the right to get the brake rod to line up straight. It looks like after all that I will need to bend the pedals to where I want them. I also had to cut the clutch pedal stop so the gas pedal would not hit it. There is no telling what mods you would have to make if you plan on running a power booster. I was begining to wonder if FF had screwed up on my car. My mount for my steering block was also set about 3 1/2" inches to the right. If I would have known there was a diffirence I would have went with the old style box.
Very interesting/odd. I'm using an '00 donor pedal box, with the hydrobooster and all donor equipment intact, and it went in my MKIII frame with no trouble at all. Once I got the hydroboost tool from FFR, I think I had the whole thing in there in ten or fifteen minutes. It might pay for you to ask a few more questions about what's really doing on, DuckHunter.

Cheers, John
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks again guys...you definitely have given me more insight. I will probably be giving Mike a call shortly.
 

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Mike, is there anything wrong with using the old box? It seens alot less work.
 

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I got a finished later model box from Mike Everson. Well worth the $, IMHO. It looks great, fit perfectly, and saved me several hours and a handful of curse words.

-Scott P
 

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My experience is similar to dukegrad98. I've got a '98 donor box with hydroboost and everything went right together. Duckhunter, check Sergio's site for detailed information on how he installed his.
 

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I don't know about Duckhunter, but I can imagine that using all matching donor parts would have been cleaner than what I did. It's always going to be easier to use parts that were designed to work together from the start. I used a CNC dual master cylinder but I would think that once you decided to use anything but the hydroboost system with a late model box you will start down a path of modifications of some kind. I imagine it may take a similar amount of modifications to get the hydroboost working with an early pedal box.
 
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