[Aaron Silidker]

Thanks to CobraEarl, my master cylinder now works. After bleeding, I go to test the brakes and the distribution block literally blew apart. The little ruber seal in the cap came right out(blew across the garage to a deep dark corner never to be found again). I had gutted it and then reassembled it, but I had another by my side to make sure I was doing it correctly. So I put the other one on and the exact same thing happened. What the heck is going on? I am confused. Can someone post a pic of the routing to make sure that I am doing this correcly, and how is it supposed to be assembled?
Can I get one of these at my local friendly parts outlet? I really want to test brakes, but I don't think expolding parts is a good sign!

 

[oldguy668]

Aaron:
What do you mean when you use the term "gutted"?

 

[wnstwolf]

Aron,

If you are gutting A-La-M-2000 cobra kit instructions then you are missing one part. In that gut job you take out the proportioning device and replace that plastic projectile thing (you now lost two) with a bolt and o-ring supplied with the Cobra R kit..

What you are doing is taking out the device that keeps all the pressure isolated from the plastic piece, in turn the little plastic piece now gets a lot of (PSI!) and wham across the room to be lost for ever!

 

[Aaron Silidker]

Stock brakes. I had them gutted so that I could bleed it and the piece did not burst out. Then I put it back together with all the insides to test the brakes and that is when it blew out. I had a spare that I put on and it blew apart too. What the heck is going on?

 

[oldguy668]

Aaron:
If you did what I think, then Wnstwolf is correct. Either put the valve back the way it belongs or get the right "modification kit" from Ford.

 

[Wayne Presley]

Or remove the valve.

 

[Aaron Silidker]

It was back the way it belongs when it blew apart. I had all the guts back in it. I took it apart to bleed the brakes because it was not allowing pressure to the rear. It had guts in it!

 

[Aaron Silidker]

Can't remove it or I will have in effect, one circuit braking. No good for safety.

 

[wnstwolf]

Not sure AAron...

The directions that came with the cobra kit have you "gut" the system but when doing this it seems I had to really pull on the internals as if they were pressed in. Once out they give you a plug and o-ring and clearly state this has to be used or you will do what happened to you.

As you say the unit is needed to allow for 2 circuit braking as a safety measure. Possible to get a new dist block at NAPA? maybe the guts are a one time item and once removed are history. Is your block threaded where that projectile plastic goes? If so go the Cobra r route and plug it and then buy a proportional valve for back brakes. I think you can get a prop valve for under $40 at summit (10% off too)...

 

[Aaron Silidker]

I think I may have to make a trip to dreaded Mr.Rip-off(junk yard) and get some of these. Time to analyze one and figure out why the heck it broke and how it works so next time it wont happen. I am going to scour the garage floor for the part that I lost.

 

[cscott67]

Aaron......I am assuming that you are running front and rear disc? If so, I ran into the same problem modifying the proportioning valve by taking out the plunger and spring. I started bleeding the brakes, and the prop valve blew.... I called Richard Oben, and he said that you don't even need the prop valve if you are using a manual master cylinder. So, I took it out, re-flared a few lines, and hooked it all back up. I now have a solid pedal, and the brake bias feels fine on the street. If you want you can always put an adjustable wilwood unit in, no big deal. Hope that helps, Scott

 

[Aaron Silidker]

Okay, you are all going to have to listen, this is frustrating because you all think it was apart when it happened. IT WAS TOGETHER!!!!! THe guts were installed when it blew apart. When the guts were out of it, it was fine. I am running completely stock brakes.

 

[CobraEarl]

Originally posted by cscott67:
Aaron..I started bleeding the brakes, and the prop valve blew.... I called Richard Oben, and he said that you don't even need the prop valve if you are using a manual master cylinder. So, I took it out, re-flared a few lines, and hooked it all back up. I now have a solid pedal, and the brake bias feels fine on the street. If you want you can always put an adjustable wilwood unit in, no big deal. Hope that helps, Scott

LISTEN TO SCOTT. THis is FAR BETTER than gutting the proportioning valve. If you gut it, you only have ONE SYSTEM.

If you have tooooo much rear brake, later (which you will not) you can add the aftermarket proportioning valve later.

The Original proportioning valve is for a car with 40% of the vehicle weight on the rear tires. YOU have 50%. The original valve is meant to limit your rear brakes. SHIT CAN IT!!

earl

 

[RacingRob]

If your running completely stock brakes, why are you "gutting" the prop valve?
RR

 

[Aaron Silidker]

AGH THIS IS FRUSTRATING!!! I merely gutted it to disable the switching feature to ease bleeding. Then I put all the safety guts BACK IN and this is when it blew apart. I called FFR and they said to plug to hole and it would be fine. PRoblem solved. If anyone has any suggestions post em. Taking the valve out is outta the question, sorry. I spent too long making perfect lines and I cant just bend em up and hook them to the master.

 

[RacingRob]

I guess what I'm saying is that I've never heard of the stock prop valve causing a problem with bleeding the air from the line. I'm thinking there must be something wrong with the valve and it should be replaced if it's keeping you from properly bleeding the brakes.
RR

 

[oldguy668]

You guys have to all take a deep breath and think about this for a minute. The valve that Aaron is having problems with performs 3 functions. It serves as a distribution block, it serves as a spool valve to isolate a circuit with a catastrophic loss of hydraulic pressure, and it serves as a proportioning valve. The kit that Ford sells to "gut" the valve merely disables the proportioning feature with the intention of adding an aftermarket prop valve to the rear brakes. With a disk/disk setup, the prop valve isn't really a necessity for street driving. The distribution feature can be replaced by a simple tee if one does not mind redoing a few lines. The safety feature is what is causing the problem here. Aaron probably did not bench bleed the MC first, so when he applied the brakes the valve saw a large differential in pressure between the two circuits and shut off the circuit with no pressure. The only way to get the valve back to "center" is to get pressure in the offending circuit, and then open a bleeder in the other curcuit while pressing on the pedal rather firmly. That will put the valve back to normal (and also shut off the brake trouble dash light). This is the way I remember the older 2-circuit valves worked, and the newer 3-circuit ones are the same, only a bit more complex. If you can't find the parts and you get a new valve, do not attempt to bleed the lines from the valve to the wheels until you have fluid from the MC to the valve.

Happy motoring

PS: I'm sure I'm going to hear a few different opinions on this one...

PPS..If your master cylinder has 2 separate reservoirs for front and rear circuits, you don't need the valve at all.

[ July 19, 2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: oldguy668 ]

 

[CobraEarl]

Originally posted by oldguy668:
.......The kit that Ford sells to "gut" the valve merely disables the proportioning feature with the intention of adding an aftermarket prop valve to the rear brakes. .

Well said, OLDGUY...

But I never heard of anyone using a FORD kit to gut this thing. I thought most folks were simply gutting it and turning their system in to a single brake system, which is a VERY BAD THING.

ON all other points, I concur 100%.

earl

 

[CobraEarl]

Originally posted by Aaron SIlidker:
I spent too long making perfect lines and I cant just bend em up and hook them to the master.

You should be able to get some 6 or 12 inch premade brake lines at advanceauto and simply extend them.

Would beat the heck out of spending MANY hours Making the car perfect to just bend it up around a tree.

You cant rebend the lines very much at all.

earl

[ July 19, 2002, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: CobraEarl ]

 

[oldguy668]

The Ford Motorsport M-2450-A kit is specifically for the E0ZZ-2B257-A distribution block, which is a late model block designed for a 3 port MC. I know of no other method to safely disable the proportioning feature. I have no experience disabling the Shuttle valve feature, so I can't comment on it other than to say if the MC has dual reservoirs, and the shuttle feature is not desired, then ditch the block, like Earl said.

Happy motoring