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Discussion Starter #1
I need some opinions on my paint issues if anyone has experienced this before. I had to repaint my roadster due to a small engine fire on the left side. Paint blistered in a few places and hood yellowed a little on one corner. I needed to fix a few rock chips too so I figured what the heck just as easy to paint the whole thing.
My problem is the paint is lifting or wrinkling up in various places all over the car. Sprayed base coat the for the 3rd time today and places on the hood and right front fender lifted. It is different places each time except the right front fender has done it twice now.
History is I painted it with PPG base coat clearcoat about 5 years ago. Used all PPG products, top of the line. Primer, sealer, base and clear. Same products used this time. Local paint store and all the local guys we talked to have not had this type issue before. Last time we used a quicker reducer as that seemed to be the common solution on most of the technical internet sites I looked at. Base won't do it until the 2nd coat.
Anyone who paints seen this before?

Steven

 

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Cobra Colorist
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There are a few reasons it could be lifting. Rather then speculating I'll give you the cure. Sand those places down one more time past the blistering (down to the gelcoat if you have to) 3 coats of water base primer (follow the directions. Block the primer, prep the car with 500-600 wet and give it two coats of sealer, let dry over night, shoot base coat the following day. The integrity of your clearcoat has been compromised . It has lost a property that gives it a measure of chemical resistance. You need to get a barrier coat on (sealer) or you will chase it till the cows come home (and they ain't leavin the party anytime soon)...been there a few times...different reasons each time.....a gallon if paint is 132ozs of a problem looking for a place to happen !...da Bat
 

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Discussion Starter #4
There are a few reasons it could be lifting. Rather then speculating I'll give you the cure. Sand those places down one more time past the blistering (down to the gelcoat if you have to) 3 coats of water base primer (follow the directions. Block the primer, prep the car with 500-600 wet and give it two coats of sealer, let dry over night, shoot base coat the following day. The integrity of your clearcoat has been compromised . It has lost a property that gives it a measure of chemical resistance. You need to get a barrier coat on (sealer) or you will chase it till the cows come home (and they ain't leavin the party anytime soon)...been there a few times...different reasons each time.....a gallon if paint is 132ozs of a problem looking for a place to happen !...da Bat
Thanks Jeff. We went over there today to do what you said and guess what? About 6 more spots had lifted that were not there when we left it yesterday. I'm gonna bite the bullet and do what we should have done the first time it lifted. I'm going to strip the whole car back to the original primer we applied 5 years ago or gelcoat as the case may be. On every spot so far it has not lifted the original primer only down to the original sealer. Have you ever used a chemical stripper on one of these bodies? That is a lot! of sanding without chemical help. I hate body work and painting more than anything else automotive! Hats off to you for doing it every day.

Steven
 

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a gallon if paint is 132ozs of a problem looking for a place to happen !
OMG, how true (but check your math ;)). This is getting framed and hung in the paint booth---you'll get credit, in fact when you come to visit I'll have you sign it :bat:

Jeff
 

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OMG, how true (but check your math ;)). This is getting framed and hung in the paint booth---you'll get credit, in fact when you come to visit I'll have you sign it :bat:

Jeff


OH ! JK ! I have the math just where it belongs....There are 128 oz in a gallon.….but paint has 132oz of problems....more trouble then it's worth....see what I'm sayin. Let's clog ! "">>""<<""==''==;;00;;(($$%%##@@[email protected]@##%%))(())((><><> HOW DID I DO ? DID I SAVE MY ARSE? back to summer school for remedial math.....on the upside,,,, I now know why I keep coming up short on my catalyst. OH! We can put my "math" on the hood that I cut the scoop hole backwards......THIS JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER !




HYDRO !!!!! do not use chemical stripper !!!I don't care what the can says ! Chemical stripper will contaminate every substrate down to the fiberglass. Machine strip with 80gr on an orbital sander. OR! Take it and have it Plastic Media Blasted down to the gelcoat and start over.....walnut shell blasting ok.....sand, water/sand, Soda, Garnet, Slag are a NO GO !!


Now ! Me being me , I go crazy trying to find the cause of a problem so it doesn't happen again. For you, I would try to find someone who has been painting for at least 20 years and have them look at it , feel it, sand it (to try to determine how deep the problem goes and take his advise. After 20 years of painting they will have seen and made a good percentage of the mistakes that can be made......If he has made it or been a party to it don't be surprised IF he tells you it "happened to a buddy of his" that is painter code for "I F'ed up but no way in hell am I gonna admit it" ….what can I say, It's never our fault {we have a 687 page book of excuses we refer too} Prep, weather, contamination, product failure....etc. THAT'S JUST HOW IT IS! ...da Bat
 

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Painters Excuse’s (here’s a collection of some excuses many have heard (or used) in the body shop):

I thought the molding would cover it
The rep told me to do it that way
It won’t look so bad outside
It was painted before
It’s just a blend panel
It probably had over-spray before it came in
It’s as good as the bodywork
The scale needs calibrating
It’s too cold in here
It’s too hot in here
They’re stone chips, they're fish-eyes

And the number one excuse:

It looked good…….until I cleared it!

And then there is "Painter Math"
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OH ! JK ! I have the math just where it belongs....There are 128 oz in a gallon.….but paint has 132oz of problems....more trouble then it's worth....see what I'm sayin. Let's clog ! "">>""<<""==''==;;00;;(($$%%##@@[email protected]@##%%))(())((><><> HOW DID I DO ? DID I SAVE MY ARSE? back to summer school for remedial math.....on the upside,,,, I now know why I keep coming up short on my catalyst. OH! We can put my "math" on the hood that I cut the scoop hole backwards......THIS JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER !

HYDRO !!!!! do not use chemical stripper !!!I don't care what the can says ! Chemical stripper will contaminate every substrate down to the fiberglass. Machine strip with 80gr on an orbital sander. OR! Take it and have it Plastic Media Blasted down to the gelcoat and start over.....walnut shell blasting ok.....sand, water/sand, Soda, Garnet, Slag are a NO GO !!


Now ! Me being me , I go crazy trying to find the cause of a problem so it doesn't happen again. For you, I would try to find someone who has been painting for at least 20 years and have them look at it , feel it, sand it (to try to determine how deep the problem goes and take his advise. After 20 years of painting they will have seen and made a good percentage of the mistakes that can be made......If he has made it or been a party to it don't be surprised IF he tells you it "happened to a buddy of his" that is painter code for "I F'ed up but no way in hell am I gonna admit it" ….what can I say, It's never our fault {we have a 687 page book of excuses we refer too} Prep, weather, contamination, product failure....etc. THAT'S JUST HOW IT IS! ...da Bat
Thanks for the tip on the stripper. Man I dread sanding that thing down by hand. Did I mention I hate body work! Guy that's spraying it for me has been painting for 30 years and he hasn't seen this before. I ran out of 20 year experts around here so that's when I posted and I know a LOT of painters. Lifting goes all the way down to the original primer I put on 5 years ago but never deeper than that. We are now blaming it on the original sealer but don't know why. By the way I agree with your math. :grin2:

Steven
 

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Cobra Colorist
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I feel your pain brother....but I've got to say that if it were mine I would hit those spots with "waterborne primer" it is an incredible barrier coat and try to save it ONE....MORE....TIME.....Is it only happening where you have broken through the clear, or where you have sanded through the base? What grit paper are you finishing with before new base?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I feel your pain brother....but I've got to say that if it were mine I would hit those spots with "waterborne primer" it is an incredible barrier coat and try to save it ONE....MORE....TIME.....Is it only happening where you have broken through the clear, or where you have sanded through the base? What grit paper are you finishing with before new base?
That's the strange part. It will lift in places where the clear was just scuffed. As a matter of fact it has not lifted in any places where we broke through the clear. No rhyme or reason. Had the PPG paint rep look at it today and he was puzzled too. It laid down perfect on the original paint job that's why i'm going back to the primer. If I used the water based primer I wouldn't feel good about it unless I primed the whole car.
I'm thinking about robbing a bank. I have no finger prints left and I need the money to buy more paint. Red is expensive!

Steven
 

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I like the idea of making sure you do not have water in your compressor or that you are not making a mistake mixing the paint. Its easy to make a mistake mixing the paint. Been there done that! I would run a test on one of the smaller panels like a door and let it sit. This will give you the confidence that what you are about to invest 100+ hours into is going to fix the problem. Just saying....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I like the idea of making sure you do not have water in your compressor or that you are not making a mistake mixing the paint. Its easy to make a mistake mixing the paint. Been there done that! I would run a test on one of the smaller panels like a door and let it sit. This will give you the confidence that what you are about to invest 100+ hours into is going to fix the problem. Just saying....
This is not moisture in the paint. I know what that does and looks like. The paint is actually lifting from the surface below it. You can see it plainly as you sand. No mistake in mixing the paint unless the 3 different people at the paint store have made it. Possible but not likely. I have bought it 3 times and each time a different person mixed it. As far as mixing it to spray I do that myself and it is correct.
I do appreciate the thinking and response to my problem.

Steven
 

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And you used compatible products, but you have bubbles in your paint. Looks to me like its chemical compatibility issues that can be caused by mixing incompatible products are errors in mixing.
 

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Maybe some wax embedded in the clear? Did you ever wax, or use polish of any sort, after it was painted?
 

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And you used compatible products, but you have bubbles in your paint. Looks to me like its chemical compatibility issues that can be caused by mixing incompatible products are errors in mixing.
I agree with the chemical compatibility issue. Just can't figure out exactly what.
 

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It's not an incompatibility problem....it is a sensiitivity problem, not contamination, not time, heat, moisture or improper mixing. What we have is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum and to be honest I dropped out of quantum physics . It's true,,,,MY NAME IS JEFF AND I CAN'T SPEAK NERD. I was just there for the bohemian type chicks...WHAT ! I was curious......that's all, just curious...da bat
 

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My .02 Worth.

I've sprayed a lot of paint but I'm Not a Body Man/Painter (Like Da'Bat or Jeff or SR Painter) so I read the instructions, if there's Armorall or Silicone in the paint area you'd better break out the Jesus Statue and Pray. All manufacturers tell you what to wipe the car down with. I know I have a Gallon of Dupont stuff I paid big bucks for a gallon of what they suggested to wipe a car down Before painting. If the MFG says run three laps around the building, I'll do it Because I am an Amateur.

I can tell you this, I am with Da'Bat on Stripper. I wouldn't use a stripper on Fiberglass for any reason. Sand the Hell out of it and Use a sealer and Follow the instructions. "Wait, 21.08 minutes before sanding... YES SIR"! From all the stuff I've painted "Slick Sand" is the Bomb. I also learned on my last FFR about Filler. I'd used $12.00 a gallon filler for 40 years. Hell, most of it lands on the floor anyway but reading here I decided to use Rage, Man-O-Man what a difference!

And I'm still with the Pro's. Find someone locally to look at it before you make it worse.

Good Luck.
 
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