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FFCobra Master Craftsman
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Discussion Starter #1
After reading Mr.PotatoHeads post, I had to write this to see if I could give some encouragment to him.
Sent my 351W to a motor shop and $8500.00 later, it ran for a few minutes and the cam went flat. 13 of 16 lifters wouldn't even come out throught the top. Cam had to be removed and they went out the bottom. Of the three I did get out, one was perfect, one was concave about .125 and the other was "dished out" in two different areas about .080.
I had a hydraulic lifter flat tappet cam and will go back with a roller hydraulic Comp of similar profile. I got the original profile from Dino.
I feel your pain bro, but hang in there. I also got 2nd degree burns from my hip to my knee cap in the process and feel it's worth the pain. :(
Anyone have any suggestions of why my cam went flat ? Builder says all his work was right :rolleyes: . He has the engine back and will do the labor for free but i have to buy all new parts. Bummer ..... Hope this helps.
 

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Who adjusted the rockers? Did the lifters come out scored/blued? I've heard of a couple of cams not being tempered correctly by one of the big names, I don't remember if it was Comp or Crane though...
We're your springs within recommended tolerances for the cam you were using? Did you have sufficient lubrication to the cam? (possible blocked oil supply?)
Many, many, possibilities... Make sure the cam goes back to the manufacturer for inspection and doesn't get "lost" by the builder.
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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2,076 Posts
I don't get it... why do you have to pay for parts?

Is service dead in this country?
 

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3,701 Posts
Tim

Man, I really feel bad for you guys :(

I have the crate 351W from Ford Racing which is run at the factory for 30 minutes to break it in. After I got it home, I carefully ran it for another 20 minutes, just to be on the safe side. A little bit after that - it started popping through the carb which I later found out was because one of the lobes got chewed up and the exhaust valve wasn't opening :(



Luckily for me, Ford stepped up to the plate and paid to have it shipped back, completely rebuilt and upgraded to a roller cam this time, and shipped back to me - all at no charge


I feel your pain.

ps - Ford isn't using the flat tappet cams any more in their crate engines, I think the words they used were "ancient technology"
 

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580 Posts
Dino Cams
You must have gotten his 3/4 race cam. Flat that is. He also sell his controlled valve float cams. Don,t ask for that speck sheet. If you brought that cam into my shop I would pack up all your parts and throw then and you out the door.Most cam mfg. are good at what they do and stick to known facks and profiles not black magic or voodo .Don,t blame your engine man for using that brand he is learing the hard way. Get a cam kit from Crane, Eskie, Edle,Comp or FMS and they will stay with you . To eat up a cam like you did you had some type of binding.You need to tear your engine down and clean the block and all passages and change your brg's again.Get a FMS cam and lifters and start over. It cost money for a education but have you priced stupity?
 

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Befuddled
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560 Posts
Originally posted by Advil:
I don't get it... why do you have to pay for parts?

Is service dead in this country?
That's what I'm thinking... either the engine builder screwed up or the cam manufacturer did, but either way there's no way you should pay for a new cam.
 

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Pro FFR Builder and Moderator
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14,686 Posts
Tim, If that many lobes went flat you have bigger problems than you may think. Call me in the morning, I will be at the shop.
 

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Premium Member
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Bummer! Every time I get the itch to build up my sweet little 5.0, I read about something like this, Mr. PotatoHead, then The Butcher, now Tim! There's more to this story than meets the eye: it's gotta be a bad cam or something. I'd be interested to hear what Gordon has to say.

I feel your pain, guys. Takes me back 30+ years, when every failure, and there were a few, was followed by my father admonishing me "If you just left it stock, it'd run fine".

Forrest

[ May 31, 2002, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: forrest1 ]
 

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OK guys...I'm sorry I have to even respond to this post. First off..I don't build engines, OR grind cams!!! Tim emailed me and asked what grind I was using...it's was a COMP Cam 280..no big secret there. Any idiot who has some little dick build them an engine, with no guarantee gets what they deserve. Tim...I DON'T BUILD ENGINES!!! I gave you my cam specs because you asked!!! :mad: Thunderball...thanks so much for continuing the myth of "dino " cams...I don't grind, manufacture, or even build engines for ANYONE but ME!!!! :mad: Capt Don...are you a COMPLETE IDIOT??? I don't grind cams, build engines, or manufacture cams. His cams are flat...I DON'T MANUFACTURE CAMS!!!! And YOU said get an Isky, Crane, Comp...etc..it's a STOCK Comp cam profile!!!!! Sold to everone...all day long!!! Matter of fact, I sold my "special grind" Comp 280 cam, with USED lifters, to a Ford mechanic..he put it in his 302 Mustang...and it runs fantastic!!! Tim, I can't even beleive you posted this....don't EVER email me, call me, or have ANYTHING to do with me EVER!!! I'm just a regular guy who built a FFR Cobra...and built my own damn engine!!! :rolleyes: I BUILD ENGINES FOR ME!!!Noone else!!!! dino
 

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Senior Member
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Yep. I bought one of those Dino cams myself. Engine just sat there and turned but would never start. Turns out the freakin cam had NO LOBES WHAT SO EVER!! 000" lift!!! I heard that Dino guy grinds his cams with a cheese grate. LOL!!!!!


Some of you guys are REAL dangerous. Like Gordon said, you've got bigger problems. It ain't the cam (by itself anyway)and certainly isn't of Dino's doing nor his recommendation.
 

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This thread demonstrates the need for a spell checker...and a ban on caffeine....

Happy motoring
 

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Senior Charter Member
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Dean Boothe
I got your E-mail . I was talking about Dyno Cams. If you make those cams you should get full credit for what they are. They go by Dino . I am sorry if you thought I was FLAMMING you.I was just responding on the Flat Tapet cam.
 

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FFCobra Master Craftsman
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4,481 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
HEY , hold the phone here guys !!!!! This is one of those posts that got out of hand !!!! Captdon, you should be more carful with you responses. Now you have Dino all pissed off at me. He has never been anything but a help and a friend to me on the phone. The cam profile he uses has been mentioned several times on these forums and has always had positive comments. I mentioned Dino's name because of this and not to point blame in his direction in any way, shape or form.The cam was a COMP CAM and had nothing to do with Dino other than he was kind enough to share the numbers with me !!!

Dino, I will not call, write or e mail as you request but will extend this apology to you as public and hope you see through this misunderstanding. I mentioned your name as a reference that the cam profile was not the problem as you are using the same cam and not to suggest that you contributed in any way to any negative results.You have the respect from all members on both forums and my mention of your name was to indicate that it couldn't be the cam profile but had to be something else.

I will continue to read these pages but will post no more. I had a similar problem on the other forum and it's just not woth the B.S. Thanks.
 

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Tim:
Everyone's posts are considered valuable here. This place is way different than the "other" forum. Don't feel like you shouldn't post. There was a misunderstanding that's been resolved. End of story.
 

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FFCobra Master Craftsman
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Discussion Starter #16
Oldguy,

Thanks for the support !!!

My final comment is that I live in a small town in Idaho. Here we live by and practice three things: Honesty, integrity and respect. Without all three of these qualities, you will only partially suceed in life. I try to live , not always successfully, by these guidlines.

Typically, you need no guarantees here. You expect to be treated fairly. Call it stupidity if you like. I call is respect and integrity. Will I do buisness with this shop again ? Most likely not. Will I change my values because of a bad experience with an engine shop ? Absolutely not.

I have also learned in life that if it doesn't effect the welfare of friends and family, it just doesn't matter much. I live by that too. Call that stupidity if you like as well. Although money is money, the failure didn't effect friends or family. However, I'm sad to know that the comments on these pages has caused the loss of a friend. That does matter.
 

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Well, I seldom get involved in these pissing contests..I've got more important stuff to do..like building the damn car. I just looked back at what Tim originally wrote: "I got the original profile from Dino." He could have said "I got the tire pressures from Dino" or I got the ride height from Dino" (whoever Dino is). The point is, somebody jumped in and assumed that "getting the profile" was synonymous with "buying the camshaft" and then compounded the misunderstanding by assuming that "Dino" was the same as "Dyno". So, I'll stand by my original comment. More spell checking and less caffeine. And, Tim, hang around awhile. Don't ever let someone chase you out of your own neighborhood.

Happy motoring

[ June 01, 2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: oldguy668 ]
 

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OK guys..all is forgiven. Tim, sorry I overreacted...Capt, sorry to you also. Tim...I honestly think your engine builder screwed up...maybe thought he was building a Cleveland and put oil restricters in...or put much heavier springs in than needed. I have used comp cams in about 4 engines and never had a problem...don't think it's the cam manufacturer error. Again...I apologize for losing it...but hope you can look at this post from my point of view. dino
 

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Tim,
You didn't mention how you broke in the cam or valve spring pressure you are running. When I build engines for my race car I Remove the inner springs and run the new engine for about 45 minutes. Then I reinstall the inner springs and run it for another 45 minutes. with this practice I still have about a 5% failure rate but the cam manufactures will usually replace the cam for free.

Weather is geting nicer, I would like to get up there to see the car.

best of luck,
Ken
 

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Not a waxer
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As I read down thru this saga I was struck by two things. First of all that somehow Tim's reference to Dino's cam recommendation got misconstrued to the point of some posters taking smacks at Dino when all he did was tell Tim what cam worked in his engine. Where did some of these vultures come from anyway?
Second, only Ken brought up cam break in which I suspect is a more likely cause of the failure than a manufacturing flaw. With a flat tappet cam the first 20-30 minutes of running time are make or break. As soon as the engine fires you have to get it to 2-2,500 RPM and keep it there for at least 20 minutes. The cam and lifter are under tremendous point loads and need LOTS of oil as they "marry" during the initial running in. The gooey assembly lube provided by the manufacturer is not enough and will only get the engine started. Letting a new flat tappet cam idle before it has broken in will virtualy guarantee a failure. This is not the case with a roller BTW. I'm sure no Gordon but have put together more than my share of engines and have not ever had a cam failure using the method described.
Sorry about your luck, Tim. I think we'd all be interested to learn what is ultimately determined as the cause of your problem.
Jeff
 
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