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Discussion Starter #1
I had my first track outing this weekend. At the end of the first run session Saturday I lost all oil pressure. I have now pulled the oil pan and have found that the oil pump was seized by a piece of metal. (The pump gears has gouges in them)

In the oil pan there is quite a bit of very small metal fragments and 4 good size fragments (1/8 inch to 1/4 inch). The pan had no sludge in it. One of these pieces of metal is a 3/16 or so diameter metal disc about 1/8 thick.

I have been told to pull the bearing caps and look to see what condition they are in. Other than that what do you recommend.

Is it possible to replace the main bearings with the engine in the car? What is involved?

Mark
 

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It is possible to change the bearings without removing the crank; loosen all the caps a little then, one at a time, you can remove a cap and rotate the bearing around until it falls free. However, if the bearings were toasted, your crank is probably scored. If that's the case, it'll have to come out and get turned or replaced.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Do you have any idea where all of these small metal fragments came from? Is a new pump and bearings the best way to go? When is a total overhaul or replacement needed?

Thanks
Mark
 

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>One of these pieces of metal is a 3/16 or so
>diameter metal disc about 1/8 thick.

larry davi's washers are spreading across the country like an "east nile" virus!

-james
 

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Even if the crank and main bearings are ok, those metal fragments have circulated around the engine. More small fragments maybe in the cam bearings, lifters, or trapped in the oil passages.

In short, you engine is contaminated. Any repair made that does not disassemble and clean everything could fail again in the near future.

In my completely unprofessional opinion, it's time for a rebuild.
 

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Mark,

I had a similar problem with a 1970 Boss 302. I lost oil pressure and discovered a piece of metal had siezed the oil pump.
I found that the metal had come off my double roller timing chain. Turns out it was not a "true double roller after all. One of the rollars let go and found its way through the pickup into the pump :eek:
I checked the bearings and found no evidence of damage. I replaced the timing chain,changed oil and had no problems after.

You have to find out where the metal came from then you can make a decision.

Gord
 

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I ran a whole bunch of metal shavings through my engine, changed the oil, filter and cleaned off the little magnet on the drain plug and no problems since with the same oil pressure.

No I didn't just through in a bunch of metal shavings, I used eldelbrock heads with guide plates and the stock pushrods. the guide plates chewed them all up pretty good untill one bent and slipped the rocker arm off, thats when I new there was a problem.
 

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Yes, you can do it. The question is, do you want to? You have to figure out where those pieces came from. If they cam from the bearings, the new bearings will be fine. Be sure and replace rod bearings as well. After assembly, run the engine for aabout 30 minutes, then change oil and filter. That should clear out left over bits.

But if the bearings look good (unscored and evenly colored) then something else is rapidly disintigrating, and you need to figure out what it is. Those large pieces don't sound like bearing bits. Think about what might be that size - timing chain rollers, lifter plungers, etc. You'll need to do a general disassembly to figure that out.

If it were my car, I'd just pull the motor and inspect everything.
 

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Originally posted by Robert Duncan:
In short, you engine is contaminated. Any repair made that does not disassemble and clean everything could fail again in the near future.
THis Can certainly be true,,, It might not be true.....

You need to find the source of the problem. THese chunks of metal, are they magnetic??? I dont think Bearing material is Magnetic.

If your oil screen kept the big carp out, and the oil filter kept the small carp out, you might be able to fix the problem and GO ON.

the oil system does go by multiple points, but for the most parts, when it gets to where its going, it escapes and falls into the oil pan........to be filtered by the pick up screen and the filter and then and re circulated.

Bearing Material is VERY SOFT like LEAD. As long as the only damage has been done to Bearing Material Material, you can possibley get away with out a total rebuild. Just my opinion...

FIND OUT WHAT THE PROBLEM REALLY IS FIRST. Then make up your mind.

With all that said, big chunks are not a good sign. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

earl
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have now pulled 1 rod cap and 1 crank bearing cap. The bearings are not even in color on the ends and there are areas that look pitted. The crand and rod journal look perfect though.

I have also filtered all of the oil from the pan and no more large pieces of metal.

The round dot (detailed above) and the one shaving are a worry. I will try to find out where they came from. I may be able to get a good picture of them and you too can guess?

Keep it coming !

Mark
 

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Originally posted by Mark:

One of these pieces of metal is a 3/16 or so diameter metal disc about 1/8 thick.
Those disks are metal spacers that are molded into the factory rubber valve cover gaskets. VERY easy to lose one or more into the engine when replacing the valve cover gaskets.
 

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You did not say this, BUT, I assume you twisted the oil pump drive shaft off.

If all you have is one of the valve cover gasket circles in your oil, you may be OK

You can plastigauge the bearings and use them if they spec ok, OR take this a chance to refresh them. New bearings cost about $50 bucks if i remember right.

HOW Long did the engine run with NO oil pressure.

Last year at VIR, I twisted my oil shaft off. Replaced it over nite and raced the next day. I was lucky and caught the ZERO Oil pressure Immediately.

BTW, FORD Small Blocks are NOTORIOUS for wringing off the oil pump shaft.

earl

[ September 10, 2002, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: CobraEarl ]
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It is a donor 302 stock motor with an estimated 85K on it. I still have one more piece of metal to account for. I have not been able to get a good pic of it with my camera though.

Thank you for the help. I will continue the tear down and let you know what I find.

Mark
 
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