Factory Five Racing Forum banner

1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
468 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
After about 9 years I finally said it and am sure I am not the only one, nothing about this car fits and is precise by any starch of imagination, you would think once in a while you will run into something that just nicely fits but no cannot be.

This weekend I thought I get the headlights on, sound like it should be easy right? But no, no with this piece of Sh..

With the car body all painted, holes for head light cut to manual spec, 3.5inch ( 89mm) after paint and work this is about 87 or so, but head light are 90 to 91 mm, so what were they thinking saying Drill a 3.5 inch hole, should have been 3.625 ( 3 5/8 ) just bunch of amateurs at FFR, what happened to tolerances and stack up calculation, these are simple math, after having hell of a day drilled slightly larger hole which is hell without a center got the lights to fit better without screwing up the paint work.

Sunday, let try the signal lights, ok that should really be easy, Oh no, no cannot be, they also do not fit, it is even worse than the head lights, same issue, hole too small with paint work, hit the side of the high beam, and so on and there is no easy fix since there juts is not enough meat in the buck for larger hole.

Through it on the grounds, and said Fu.. this, went and grabs a beer.

So I had to get this out, not sure it makes me feel any better built may be it will help other builders.

Mostafa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,313 Posts
Just so you know, and it is no different with a GTM, but all the cars I have built/modified, when I am doing something major the car will be built, torn apart, and built again probably 5-6 times before anything like paint or powder coat is put on.

We all know the assembly guide is just a guide, and have been after Shane to put out an actual assembly manual with all the tricks and tips in it, but to no avail. I am betting he could sell those for $1000 a copy and people would happily pay that for his expertise with these GTMs.

If you have worked at all on even an OEM and had to replace something like a fender or door, then you know how difficult and frustrating even the OEM stuff from the big manufacturers can be.

Very few people appreciate the gapping and straightness of their OEM Ford or Chevy, etc. daily driver, but I bet you do...now. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Mostafa,
I totally feel your pain. I have been in your shoes so many times these past few years and its so very frustrating. It is hard to understand why more items don't fit correctly. There are precious few that do.

Hang in there, it is worth it in the end. I just went to a dealership today to have the alignment done on my recently completed GTM. It was incredible. Everyone in the place had to come over and see it. Everyone taking pictures of it, asking what it is etc. Everyone is shocked to find out I built it ( I should probably be offended at that).

Anyway, hang in there. You will get 'er done and then you will have countless stories of the journey to reminisce over!

Keith
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
It's like Crash said, everything should be mocked up and then taken apart for paint, powder coating, etc. Everything that attaches to the body should be installed and fit before paint. You want it to go together as easily as possible after paint. Don't let it bother you too much at this point, you're too close to the finish. Fix each thing right and you won't have to mess with it again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
468 Posts
if anyone had just paid a lot for paint and simple headlight does not fit and have to screw the **** out of it, they would have been pissed too.

I would agree with Crash for modification but these are not modification, they should have just worked it is no too complicated to get the hole size this right by FFR. In fact I cannot think of too many things that just worked right but no complaining about then, but this should have been worked.

In fact Dave smith will agree with me that they just did not do a good job with this car, and hence it will be discontinued soon since GTM stands for %10 of their sales and %90 for their support.

Also thanks for support, I just need to finish this before ending in hospital and have to call Shane to finish it.

We have to call it what it is otherwise it will not get better next time, it is also good for FFR to know customers feeling and not to embellish it as everything is good.

Thanks,
Mostafa
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
809 Posts
We all share your pain.
This is why I used the manual and FFR's original product as a vague suggestion.
I agree that they did a crappy job on some really simple items.
After finding this out early in the build I adopted the process of check, measure, check again, research the forum,,, repeat. For everything.
BTW I have found that even big name aftermarket manufacturers get it wrong on a regular basis as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,389 Posts
With a forum like this, the build manual is more of a paperweight than something I refer to. I can't remember the last time I opened it. This is hardly the first complaint about accuracy of the FFR manual, so I recommend measuring before drilling to make the hole fit what you have.
Ask the builders of the GTM's main competitor and you will see that these issues are universal in the component car industry.
We bought into the supercar lifestyle for a $20k entry fee. You have to expect massive imperfection at that price point.
I see the GTM as nothing more than a blank canvas with a ton of potential. It is what you make of it. I don't how many GTMs vraptorspeedworks has built now, but he keeps churning out beautiful examples, he would have stopped after 1 if it was a lost cause.
Keep your head up, if you already have paint, you are much closer than the rest of us.
If you majorly screwed up your headlight buckets, I have a pair of Gen1's I don't need.
 

·
Junior Charter Member
Joined
·
588 Posts
Mostafa,

I did not build my GTM originally, so I can't say I know your pain exactly as you are experiencing it, but I have damn near rebuilt everything on mine now with all I have done. And mine is now in the paint and body shop undergoing a complete new paint job (with a few select body mods being incorporated along with it this go round). Anyway, you must be very close. It has got to be harder the nearer you get to the finish line. To see the light at the end of the tunnel and then be set back on the small little details is totally infuriating, I know this from pretty much ALL the car projects I have ever worked on. In the end, you will at one point say that all the pain and effort was worth it. Because by that time, the BS will all be in the past and you will have nothing but enjoyable GTM ownership experience going forward at that point. Good luck, man!

Oh, and beeman- if Mostafa doesnt want/ need those gen 1 headlights, put me on the list of recipients that would gladly take them off your hands. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,389 Posts
Cool, you have second dibs on them Chad.

Nothing wrong with venting about how painful these builds can be! Just remember it helps with the exclusivity of the finished product..
 

·
OT Moderator
Joined
·
13,931 Posts
Not to beat a dead horse, but I never liked this car from the very beginning, and I've been here a while. I thought the design looked dated and cheesy from day 1. Never understood who'd spend 60-90k, or more on one of these things, when for that money there are SO many other much better choices. Then you factor a major bath will be taken once you're sick of it, and are dying to unload it. Save the hassle, and build a Roadster. Or, if you want a sports car, buy a production pre-owned one, (Many great options out there) and save yourself the headache, enjoy far less depreciation, and a much higher quality product. My 2 cents on the GTM.

Will be glad when they kill it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,389 Posts
I did buy and build a roadster and it's a great car. But it's very different from a mid engine car with a roof, air conditioning, and un-brick-like aerodynamics. So the GTM appeals to people with zero interest in a Cobra. And it appeals to guys already have a Cobra who are faster than their friends in all the corners, only to be left behind on the long straights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,313 Posts
Not to beat a dead horse, but I never liked this car from the very beginning, and I've been here a while. I thought the design looked dated and cheesy from day 1. Never understood who'd spend 60-90k, or more on one of these things, when for that money there are SO many other much better choices. Then you factor a major bath will be taken once you're sick of it, and are dying to unload it. Save the hassle, and build a Roadster. Or, if you want a sports car, buy a production pre-owned one, (Many great options out there) and save yourself the headache, enjoy far less depreciation, and a much higher quality product. My 2 cents on the GTM.

Will be glad when they kill it.
I find your position funny. Really.

I just got back from Utah where we raced against Lamborghinis, an Audi R8, all kinds of Porsches, including GT3 Cup cars, BMW M series race cars, etc. We out qualified them all and gave them a run for their money...with a $6000 GM crate engine running 91 pump gas!

We estimate we could recreate the car we have for under $50k. Compare that to a Porsche GT3 Cup car or an R8 or Lambo factory prepared race car and we run for about 1/5th the cost of those vehicles. It really must be an ego beat down to have a car like ours beat their high dollar, racing track bred foreign rides. Despite your claims, nothing really does what a GTM does, at the same price point. It's not even close.

BTW- The guy I work with built a GTM for just over $30k. It was a "by the book" build. The problems come in when people try and make the GTM what it is not...a "best in show" show car. That's just not what the GTM is about. For those types of people, I agree, go buy a used Ferrari or whatever. It will save the individual and this community a bunch of grief.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
RobJ,
When I set out on the GTM journey, my wife wondered the same thing as you: Why not just buy a high end sports car and forego the headaches?

For me, the end product was not as important as the experience of building it. I'm 55 years old and my Dad, 87 years old, have had a very memorable couple of years putting this thing together. I'm not a mechanic and only minimally a car guy. I knew that this would be a huge challenge outside my wheelhouse. There is nothing like driving this thing up to a location and having people coming around taking pictures of it and staring at you in disbelief when you tell them you built it. I'm not sugar coating the frustrations Mustafa is expressing, I have lived it, but reaching the top of the summit is something not very many people can claim. Thats very different than just walking out the door of a dealership with a nice car that no one gives a second look. It just depends on what you're looking for.
Keith
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,186 Posts
With a forum like this, the build manual is more of a paperweight than something I refer to. I can't remember the last time I opened it.
Well, of course beeman, you only have about 10 pounds of original material left in your GTM anyway. >:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
These larger problems shouldn't exist, I agree. I've been very vocal about FFR body issues on multiple models. Even getting banned on the other forum for STANDING UP FOR an 818 builder being BASHED by an FFR Fanboy that basically accused him of trying to get a second set of panels for free. The first ones were junk and all he wanted was what was advertised. I stood up for him and I'm the banned guy? The Moderator said I'd be banned for a week in the thread and then banned me FOREVER in private, SUPER SHADY if you ask me, have the BALLS to call it permanent in the thread) If FFR cared more about their product and their customers it wouldn't be this way. Smaller fitment issues are to be expected with any component kit, but the GTM is really bad. It can be fixed to OEM standards if you have the skills to do it yourself or the cash to pay for it to be done by someone else. I disagree with Crash on it not being able to be fixed to that level with reasonable effort. There have always been custom coachworks companies since the early 1900's that would tear down brand new production cars (Luxury & Exotic) and make them even nicer than the production version. Look at the Riddler Car Show as an example, there are cars there with nearly no stock parts on them, all handmade, and mostly by small builders and shops compared to oem manufacturers. They blow away the original cars they once were. It's about skill, time, money and determination as to the outcome of any project. It makes even more sense if you're gonna do something really custom like Crash with his racecar, Beeman or myself with our cars, that you're base investment is low to cover all the custom parts and mods. The most important takeaway from this thread is the lesson of mocking EVERYTHING up BEFORE paint and final assembly, ON ANY BUILD. And yes it would be great to buy a build manual that had ALL the problems HONESTLY listed out and How to fix them. FFR won't do that. Who's going to point out that many flaws In their design? This car is what you're willing to make of it. You have to decide whether it fits your skill level/wallet/end result expectations. And do lots of research, Shane makes reinforcement plates for the stock headlight buckets (the fiberglass is to thin and brittle to mount the clips) and there have been multiple threads involving mounting (opening up the holes for clearance), adjustment and upgrade lighting options. That could have saved the problem your having now.
 

·
OT Moderator
Joined
·
13,931 Posts
I hear you guys, and agree the GTM is a heck of a performing car for the money, as crash stated.

I love building and restoring cars too. Heck I have my own shop outfitted with all the tools, lift, etc.

I guess it comes down to what appeals to you. For me, I just don't like the design and styling of a GTM. I'd prefer to have a more "finished, factory" looking car.
 

·
OT Moderator
Joined
·
13,931 Posts
I find your position funny. Really.

I just got back from Utah where we raced against Lamborghinis, an Audi R8, all kinds of Porsches, including GT3 Cup cars, BMW M series race cars, etc. We out qualified them all and gave them a run for their money...with a $6000 GM crate engine running 91 pump gas!
Sounds like they need to get some better drivers. LOL.:evil:

I'm sure for racing, the GTM get's the job done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,389 Posts
I'd prefer to have a more "finished, factory" looking car.
I agree with you for a pure street car.
It comes down to weight. You pay huge weight penalties for what you want. Which is fine for a road car but painful on the track. As soon as I started tracking my roadster, I now hate tracking my Corvette. It feels so bloated and resistant to do what I want it to do. It feels like taking off my running shoes and putting on mud boots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,941 Posts
Building a car just isn't for everybody...
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top