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· STACKED Senior Charter Member
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590 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok I know that this is only guessing Im just
Curious Im going a little crazy on my powerplant
and Im trying to est HP this is the combo
Stack EFI

AFR 185cc Heads
Comp Cams XE266HR 266/276 dur .544/.555 lift
Ford racing Shorty headers
undecided on lifters
No Emissions
other wise stock Any guesses?? cause i have no
Idea and how much do you lose going to the rear
wheels??
 

· Premium Member
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437 Posts
Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords magazine has done a series of articles on various engine configurations in which they dyno test them for comparison. You might check the back issues or their web page, www.musclemustangfastfords.com to see if they have done a setup similar to yours.
George
 

· STACKED Senior Charter Member
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590 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well after further Investigation I can not use
the 185cc heads so the combo is this (so far)

302 ci
AFR 165cc runners/64cc cambers
Ford racing shorty headers
Stack Inj (Wayne Presleys setup)
24# injectors
Comp Cams XE 266HR 266/276 dur .544/.555 lift
roller rockers
 

· Senior Member
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3,217 Posts
I've got a copy of Engine Analyzer. Feel free to contact me if you want to play with it, or send me the specs and I'll plug 'em in. I don't have any specs on Wayne's stack system and my copy of EA doesn't show the AFR 165 specs either. Relatively easy to plug that stuff in and create your own profile. Using World Jr heads, the Edelbrock Performer EFI, and your cam shows 295 HP and 331 TQ at around 4700 RPM.
 

· Rapscallion
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1,969 Posts
While estimating horsepower is a good excersice you will never know just how much you are ACTUALLY putting out until you dyno it.

Repost from a much earlier thread:

My Dyno Experience

Well last week I decided to put my Cobra on a dyno and just see all those four-hundred and yadda yadda horses I've been bragging about. Just like talking to a new date, we tend to embellish things.

Now my engine certainly has the potential for power: 351W bored +40, TRW forged pistons, Edlebrock performer plus cam and timing setup, 58cc AFR alum heads with Harland Sharpe Roller Rockers, Edelbrock Performer intake, 650 Speed Demon, etc. and running 93-94 octane.

I was really disappointed when I saw my rear wheel hp at 267 and torque at 330. I really thought that I would be more powerful than that. Hey, with a 2400 lb car that will still propel it down the highway at tremendous velocity but, still, I should be getting more…right? Even allowing for 18% power loss through the drivetrain that is still only 315 hp at the crank.

Well I faxed the dyno sheet down to the Demon tech guys. They were very helpful and I made the following changes:

1) Replace the progressive linkage to one-to-one
2) Raise the throttle cable on the carb to the big 1/2" hole to allow for full stroke of the linkage and better leverage.
3) Rejet down 2#'s from 70/78 to 68/76
4) Replace my 1/2" open spacer with a 1" 4 hole spacer.

Well I did all this, at very little cost, and took another run on the dyno yesterday.

I made three runs and all were about the same: 291 hp at the wheels and 365 lbs of torque!! What an improvement!! This is almost 350 hp at the crank and there is still room for improvement.

I just faxed the results down to Demon for more suggestions. Now running 66/74 with 315 rwhp and 392lbs of torque.

Anyway, I guess the point is that we all tend to talk up our cars but you never really know what you have, or where you need to tweek, until you get it on a dyno. I certainly had the potential but was not tuned properly.

You would be kidding yourself if you try to estimate what you are running. You can only estimate potential and not actual. You could sit around all day and say "well I should be running 375hp in that puppy!" It is a feel good experience only.

Then you find when you dyno it you are actually running 300! Not a feel good experience.

Best to get to a dyno and get that engine tweeked and running at its peak potential otherwise you will never know.

I guess some people just go around telling everyone they've got 400hp and that satisfies everyone but don't you really want to know what you have under that hood? Don't you want that engine maxed? I do.

Roscoe
 

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2,546 Posts
IMHO the single most important number you can get from a chassis dyno is the air/fuel ratio.Make sure the runs are made with a wide band O2 sensor.If you get a proper a/f ratio all the way through the the pull it dosent get any better than that.These are the numbers you can look at and know that regardless of the hard parts you have in your combination and whatever the HP. and TQ. figures are saying your engine is running at its optimum and producing all the power it is capable of in that form.Therefore it dosent get any better than that.
 

· Junior Charter Member
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3,485 Posts
Originally posted by Smitty:
IMHO the single most important number you can get from a chassis dyno is the air/fuel ratio.Make sure the runs are made with a wide band O2 sensor.If you get a proper a/f ratio all the way through the the pull it dosent get any better than that.These are the numbers you can look at and know that regardless of the hard parts you have in your combination and whatever the HP. and TQ. figures are saying your engine is running at its optimum and producing all the power it is capable of in that form.Therefore it dosent get any better than that.
While this is somewhat true, you don't really know exactly where you want the AFR to be unless you experiment with it. Some people say put it at 12.5, but I have seen plenty of cars pick up power when leaned out higher than that. Different engines will have a preference for where they want the AFR to be. In addition to that, I've seen 10hp from a filter change, 3hp from an oil filter, increases from changing plug gaps, etc. etc. Of course, ignition timing is huge, but cam timing can be important too. There is a lot more to it than AFR.

A lot of guys bolt it together with the cam in the straight up position on the keyway, and the stock jets in the carb and assume that they are getting as much power as somebody that has spent the time to optimize this stuff. There can be a lot of power found on the dyno for relatively little expense.

John
www.dynapackusa.com
 

· Junior Charter Member
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3,485 Posts
Originally posted by Dave Sheehan:
Well after further Investigation I can not use
the 185cc heads so the combo is this (so far)

302 ci
AFR 165cc runners/64cc cambers
Ford racing shorty headers
Stack Inj (Wayne Presleys setup)
24# injectors
Comp Cams XE 266HR 266/276 dur .544/.555 lift
roller rockers
Since you are still going to have realtively low compression, That cam might be too big for your combination - especially the duration. If you mill the heads to bump up the compression a little (10.0 - 10.5), and back the cam duration down to the 220 - 240 range, you should be capable of close to 450HP. This is assuming that you have a tuneable EFI system that will allow you to really dial in the fuel and timing curves.

John
 

· Premium Member
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8,004 Posts
Dave,

Why no 185's?

My guess is your combo will produce between 370-400 hp.

I recommend shaving the heads for a good 10:1 compression. If you stay with the 165's and that cam, you should have a real streetable motor with good torque right off 2000rpm's. Your peak power will probably be just under 6000 rpm, so your stock short block will be safe.

Heres some data from AFR's web site:
http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ford_dyno.htm

check the 2nd combo from the top. Pretty close to yours. Also note the Torque down low compared to the bigger heads and cam examples.

David
 

· STACKED Senior Charter Member
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590 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Like I said in my original post I know This is just guessing but as allways I get valuable info
from everyone,David B.I cant use 185cc heads
because of valve clearance on stock pistons
How much do I want to shave the heads ?? i wonder
if they can be ordered that way??? I will have
Mike Forte look for me The SDS system wayne sells
is very tunable so I will play often to try and
get it right I just want a Bad Cobra,Not as Bad
as QUIK 1!!! but its nice to carry a big stick
and no more icky ford EFI this is all about fun
and staying out of trouble
 
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