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Discussion Starter #1
I asked this question of the Type 65 coupe and was told that the lotus would just walk all over the coupe on a track. I was even asking how a 500hp Subaru WRX and Mitsubishi Evo would compare to the coupe. Basically it sounded like the coupe would most likely get beat by the lotus because of handling and the WRX or EVO because of their AWD. So, how would a 500hp GTM compare to a 300hp Lotus or 500hp WRX/EVO? If I am going to invest in a car that looks as good as the GTM, I do not want anything short of a Ferrari Enzo or Lamborghini LP 640 coming up behind me on the track.
 

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I'll take a 400 HP GTM over any of those others.......and drive away from them......no problem. We do it all the time. See here:

www.pdg4.com

If you are here asking this question I suggest you do two things.

1) Really research and think about what you want. A turn key, relatively cheap, fun car that you can thrash on, ala WRX or Lotus, or something that takes you some time to build, is rather unique, and will cost you quit a bit more?

2) Buy any of those others, or a GTM for that matter, and then go spend some $$$ and time at a quality race driving education school. More than half of a car being fast, IMO, is about who the nut behind the wheel is. Be the right nut!:lol: It will also give you a great understanding of what the car will do on the street before you get in over your head. See here for an example of how quickly it can happen in a GTM......even with sticky tires.:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQwGa08sI4

And here's a school I happen to know is pretty good:

http://www.hookedondriving.com/index.cfm
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Great to hear! Thank you for the information. It was kind of depressing hearing that the Type 65 would have a hard time with those cars that I mentioned. I am assuming that the GTM was probably built from the ground up as a race car and did not have the limiting design aspects that you run into when designing a replica car such as the Type 65.
Whatever route I decide to go, I am absolutely planning on spending a lot of time in a driving school. There is no way that I would be alive after a couple of drives on public streets if I were to get into lightweight mild 400rwhp car such as the GTM with no experience.
 

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AWD is an advantage at the track in some situations but you're HP to weight ratio and better reliability are both bonuses in comparison to a modded EVO or WRX. Walk away from them in the straights for sure. I'd also say you could build up the LS motor beyond 500hp for less money than what they'll have in their motors. A 500hp Subie is an all forged Ken Block monster costing major bucks.
 

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If setup properly a GTM or Type 65 coupe would have no trouble. Do remember the lotus is a very very refined and well sorted car and it will take some work to get either car in top form. Much less on the GTM though IMHO. The couple will need some chassis work along with suspension. The GTM probably only needs bars and the proper alginment and tires.

David
 

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my 265 hp (dynapack dyno) will easily beat a lotus elise or exiege and wrx and evos Look at some in car video and you will see that a roadster driven well is very hard to beat. I would think that a coupe set up would take my roadster better areo.
 

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I'm not sure how much power the stock Elise has, but given their reputation as an excellent handling car, they don't seem to be much of a terror at the track. I've participated in several track events in 3 different cars, and have only come across them a few times (if they as good as they are cracked up to be, I would expect to see more). One time in particular, there were 2 at an event. I was driving a Mustang (convertible!) that had stock power, lightly modified suspension (shocks/springs) and R compound tires (like a stock Elise) and had no problem dealing with the Elises. That being said, as mentioned before, the talent behind the wheel is a huge factor. A few years earlier I was driving an M5 (with similar lap times) and "battling" for a few laps with a Modena Spyder. Both of us were holding up an Elise. After he got past the Modena, I had nothing for him and had to let him through. I apologized after the session for holding him up.

In my opinion there's no way the GTM, with nearly double the HP and 1000lbs less weight, will need to worry about a Lotus.

Ok, no pictures/video then it didn't happen:

bottom of the page, "Putnam Park Highlights", fast forward to 5 minutes 20seconds:
Putnam Park
 

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In my opinion there's no way the GTM, with nearly double the HP and 1000lbs less weight, will need to worry about a Lotus.
um.......last time I checked an Elise or Exige weighed in at almost 500 lbs LESS than a completed GTM. On a road course it wouldn't be much of a battle. With the VR6 conversion that is so popular in Europe, and a few mods tacked on, the Lotus would beat it in a straight line too.

You don't see many on the road or track because they are quite expensive for what you get. They are actually priced at a significant premium when you compare them to what they sell for in Europe, no doubt due to Lotus trying to manage their limited production capacity.


bottom of the page, "Putnam Park Highlights", fast forward to 5 minutes 20seconds:
Putnam Park
Showing a video of someone who doesn't really know how to drive their mustang going up against someone who doesn't really know how to drive their Elise isn't really an argument supporting anything........except maybe the value of attending a few race schools ;)




In the current economy you can buy a Porsche turbo, a Ferrari 355 or a 360 Modena for less money than the cost of building a nice GTM. On top of the professionally styled exterior you'll be getting a more proper interior, instant cachet, no registration difficulties, and dodging the re-sale problems too.
 

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turboguy- I agree with you.

There was a Lotus at the 25 last year that was competing with us and it really was pretty close time wise.......but it certainly wasn't a stock car either.....just like our GTMR. However, I would bet that his car was substantially costlier and more heavily modified than the GTMR was. The cost of all the CF alone that was on that car was staggering.

Point is, if you are a decent driver, they should be pretty close, and with the HP determined by the builder, a slightly above average GTM should have no problem beating a Lotus.

Really pretty amazing how the Lotus is that light.......and meets all the DOT requirements that the GTM doesn't have to.
 

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Really pretty amazing how the Lotus is that light.......and meets all the DOT requirements that the GTM doesn't have to.

It's that all aluminum frame, and glued together instead of bolted. I have a video on the making of the Elise, pretty amazing how that car goes together. Just don't hit anything with one, because it's pretty much throw it away and buy a new one, as the frame is said to be pretty much non-repairable...
 

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It's that all aluminum frame, and glued together instead of bolted. I have a video on the making of the Elise, pretty amazing how that car goes together. Just don't hit anything with one, because it's pretty much throw it away and buy a new one, as the frame is said to be pretty much non-repairable...
Yep... I almost bought an Elise until I found out a very small accident could scrap the car, and that rotors are something like $250 each! Body panels are crazy expensive as well.

This is another amazing thing about the GTM. New motor, 6k. New Rotors, $200 for all 4. Shoot, an entire GTM Kit doesnt cost much more than just the front hood of a Viper from what I understand.

The Elise, Exige are drivers cars. The dynamic is whats focused on, how the car feels from drivers input...not as much lap times.
 

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In the current economy you can buy a Porsche turbo, a Ferrari 355 or a 360 Modena for less money than the cost of building a nice GTM. On top of the professionally styled exterior you'll be getting a more proper interior, instant cachet, no registration difficulties, and dodging the re-sale problems too.
True in some regards. However, a 7-8 year old 911 turbo sells anywhere from 40-50K. They cost nearly tripple that new.

The GTM will probably cost 1/4th to maintain, will perform better if setup well, get more attention and as a percentage of new will probably do pretty well. The car has to be built right though...

David
 

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Really pretty amazing how the Lotus is that light.......and meets all the DOT requirements that the GTM doesn't have to.

Actually- do they? I mean that question in all seriousness. I had heard through the grapevine that the car was allowed in under some exemption for a short period of time -- not actually having to pass the tests, with the same situation here in Canada.

It never sounded "right" to me, and admitedly I never looked into it myself. Has anyone else heard this or know the truth behind it?



Even though no one took me to task for it, I'd like to say I wasn't trying to bash the GTM with my comments earlier, I just meant that as much as roadster prices have crashed so have those of mainstream exotics, to the point you can buy them for the money lots of us have tied up in parts alone. I understand building a car is about more than that, but still....



Dave- I was as surprised as anyone the prices out there. I've seen 2002 Porsche twin turbos for under 40 grand, and Ferrari 355's for 50. Given both these cars sold for just south of $200K when new that is simply amazing.


Your point about the maintenance costs is well taken, but to me that's offset by the cachet the exotics bring. Plus, we could always spend the 500-1,000 hours it takes to build one of our kits working overtime to pay for the upkeep :D :D
 

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Your point about the maintenance costs is well taken, but to me that's offset by the cachet the exotics bring. Plus, we could always spend the 500-1,000 hours it takes to build one of our kits working overtime to pay for the upkeep :D :D
Haha, you got that right... :D

I still contend the roadster is one of the best investments you can make in a cool car. Most will bring 30-35K if built right and painted the right color with a reasonable selection of parts. Most will get close to or all of their money out of the cars after a number of years of ownership

David
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have been pricing out a 2zz toyota engine(the same engine in the Lotus elise and exige) rebuild and it doesn't seem too bad. To stroke out the 2zz from 1.8 to 2.0L, sleeve the block, get forged internals seems to be less than $10,000. Do most of the exhaust work yourself and save a couple thousand, get a built transmission, and a $1,000 engine tune at my elevation, I think you would be pretty south of $20,000 for an engine that could reliably put out 350-400hp. Get a lotus with a blown engine and transmission (if you could actually find one) for around $15,000-20,000 and you are still sitting at or below $40,000.

So I have been weighing the options right now. priced highest to lowest for comparable track/performance levels, this is where I am stacking the cars:

Most expensive would be the GTM
Next would be the Type 65 Coupe
Least expensive would be a Lotus

How accurate would this be?

I think that here in Colorado, the GTM or the Coupe's brute torque would easily show over a Lotus going up some of these mountain roads.
 
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