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Senior Charter Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My car is set up for the 351W block. It will be carburated. I want 450 to 500 HP and I want to be able to drive it to work with mild racing applications.

Please tell this non-engine guy what parts to order from the PAW book. I have an engine builder down here that will help me put it all together. Please don't go crazy with every single part, I'm not made out of money.

Many thanks in advance.

Tifford
 

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Tifford, I have researched this ad nauseum, my wife thinks I need professional help because I've been studying it for over two years. I don't have the PAW catalog on the road with me, but I can tell you exactly what I'm going to do.

But...can you wait a few hours? I'm at work, to do it justice I'll wait till I get back to my hotel and type in the whole recipe.

AJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can wait a long time. I'm going out the door to go vote right now. I'll be back on later tonight.

By the way, thanks for helping me out!

Tifford
 

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Junior Charter Member
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Tifford,

How come you want to go with PAW if you are not going to build the engine yourself? Their only real advantage over a crate engine is that you can save a few (really not much) bucks by assembling it at home. Once you figure in the machinist time etc, I bet you will come to the same $ result.

With a crate engine, many builders will give you a warranty (2 years or maybe more). Plus they will make sure that everything works and will know the parts that fit together.

As regarding the parts, a 351 would have to be pretty radical to meet your HP goal. I think you should look closer at either a 393 or 408 to reach those kind of numbers while still idling nicely in a traffic jam.

If I were you, I would look at a finished shortblock from a reputable shop like DSS Racing or Keith Craft (maybe CoastHigh). Then you can still do some assembly, but in areas where you are not likely to screw up.

Lukas
 

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What's the builder charging you for his "help"? If its free, then doing your own build will be fun and fiscally doable. If he's charging you and your not sold on having your (as well as his) fingerprints on every part, buy a crate. Regardless of which direction you go, to get the ponies and twisty your "wanting" (because if it was a "need" we wouldn't be talking about insane horsepower to weight ratios would we?) keeping it under $6K without flying apart the first time you stick your foot through the radiator is unrealistic.

I stroked my 5-oh and am looking at between 430 and 450 hp. Total cost: $7300 and some change but that includes a lot of Bling Bling to accompany a rock solid build. Looking good at light speed, baby. That's my motto!

Here's to good friends, dancing with snakes, and blown budgets--not motors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Free
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I was counting on a 351W stroked to either 393 or 408.

Tifford
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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711 Posts
Go with the 408. That way you can achieve your HP goals easier without sacraficing streetability.

Comp Cam - XE282HR
Edelbrock Intake - RPM or Torquer
AFR 185 Heads - Aluminum 2.02/1.60 Valves.
Holley Carb - 750 CFM

Raymond
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Alright 408 it is.

Now what parts do I need to order out of the book?

Tifford
 

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I'm baaaaack.

I see now that you are thinking in terms of a 393, that's a completely different animal than the 351W that I am building. But what the heck, let's have a go anyway.

First, if I were building a 393 stroker, I am pretty sure I'd start out with a crate motor. (PAW doesn't make a 393 kit, although they do make a 427W kit.) Ford Racing is one obvious choice for a 393, another is Coast High Performance (see this web page ).

The reason is that they both have good stroker cranks. CHP is well known for its Probe pistons too. Good packages.

To hit your horsepower target, I would plan a killer ignition (MSD 6AL, Pro Billet dist with vacuum advance, Superconductor wires).

I would go with AFR 205s (please, no flames) on the theory that you'll have more bottom end torque than you know what to do with, so trading a tad of that for top end HP ain't a bad deal. Regardless of which ones you buy, you have to have aluminum heads to handle the compression required to build the power you are after. Commonly accepted limits say that aluminum heads will accept about a 10.5:1 compression ratio on 91 octane pump gas, while iron heads will accept only around 9.5:1 (on the same gas) because aluminum is better than iron at carrying away heat. And of course, once the diplacement issue is settled, the next big factor for producing power is how compressed the mixture is when the spark plug fires.

Choosing between a single-plane and dual-plane manifold in your case is tough, because there's advantages on both sides. But if you look at your entire motor as a system, I think one choice might be the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap.

I will always say that any Cobra should have a mechanical secondary carb regardless of motor size, because with what our cars weigh a vacuum secondary is NEVER going to kick in consistently. I'd expect to see a 750 cfm on a 393.

I'm planning to get the Quality Roadsters autocross/road race oil pan, which is pricey at $400, but purpose-built. I will end up with over $5,000 in my budget motor build :rolleyes: and the last thing I want to do is starve it for oil during a track day at Pocono.

Speaking of oil, don't use a high-volume pump, they are plain and simple a bad idea on a smallblock Ford. Use a standard pump, and invest a couple hundred to have Big-Foot from this forum (ASP Performance in Minneapolis) blueprint it for you. If oil is the blood in your engine, the oil pump is the heart. Make it perfect before you bolt it in.

Finally, with a kick-butt motor like yours, I would definitely go with a McLeod scattershield (assuming you enjoy having a right leg to go along with your left one), and a driveshaft safety hoop. That motor is going to have serious twist, it is going to constantly try to rip the steel behind it apart.

Good luck!

AJ
 

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Wow, you jumped to 408 pretty quickly while I was typing that. You realize that you're getting into pretty wacky rod angles here, right? The more a motor gets stroked, the shorter its life expectancy is.

AJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Can I get 100,000 out of it? If not then how many miles can I get out of it?

Tifford
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've got the PAW book infront of me right now. They have a "PAW 420 Windsor" for $3,000.

I don't see a 408 kit so I'm assuming that I have to order everything from the block to the pistons seperately and have the block machined.

Tifford
 

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If you want that kind of horspower you will need lots of green. I was just looking at Ford GT 40 crate engines. They are $3200 just for the engine and aluminum heads. You get 345 hp and will still need an induction system, efi or I guess you can put a carb and alum. intake. Plus you still need a distributor and waterpump, and alternator and starter and flywheel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
As much as I need too if I can order the parts over a period of time.

Tifford
 

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Here is a list
donor car (79 t bird w/351W) 350
keith craft stroker kit
rods,bearings,pistons,steel
crank, steel flywheel, balanced, 1700
pistons dished .090x3.5"
cloyes tc 100
mcleod scatter sh 240
Ford racing clutch 160
AFR 185's 1200
machine work bore, hot tank, deck 450
align hone, etc
CC XE284H w/lifters 220
vic junior intake 240
holley 4150 590
smith bros pushrods 100
roller rockers 240
arp head bolts 60
arp rocker studs 70
valve covers 110
gaskets 150
hv water pump 60
oil pump (standard) 40
donor pan, harm bal., tc cover,
starter,pulleys, brackets, volt reg, No charge
duraspark distrib.
New Alternator 25
New duraspark unit 25
plug wires and looms 60
dual pump feed for carb 30
cobra oval air cleaner 90
K&N 3" oval element 60
sold donor tires -140
ARP oil pump driveshaft 20

total 6380

I ordered many parts from PAW and other places as well. This is subject to my failing memory. The stroker kit will require clearancing for the rod bolts at the bottom of the cylinders, the block by the oil pump, and the oil pump itself.
 

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FFCobra Fanatic
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1,326 Posts
Why are you stuck on PAW? I checked out their catalog and found it missing lots of good 351W 'stuff'.

Give Rob Weatherby at Speed and Assembly a call. He's one of the forum vendors and is a dealer for DSS Racing. BTW - I highly recommend that with the 408 stoker kit you select the upgrade from a cast crank to a forged crank ($250 extra).
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Joe,

Thanks a bunch!!!! That is exactly what I was looking for. I'm cutting and pasting to word and I'll start down the road to gathering parts Saturday. Thanks!!!!

Blue,
I'll keep that in mind as I order parts. If someone is cheaper and they have a good rep then I'll go with them.

Tifford
 

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A word of caution, there are a lot of little tricks going on when piecing one of these together. Not difficult, I just don't want to give the impression you just slap stuff together. When I had the block align honed, it moved the cam and crank closer together. That made the timing chain sloppy. Only cloyes would hand fit a timing chain to my specs. I guess that's why they cost 100 vs 30. Buy a book on blue printing.
 
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