Factory Five Racing Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, i´m in the middle of installing the doors on my Gen1, the car has been sitting for years and i bought it unfinished. Previous owner has been painting it black before it was even finished, i dont know why because i need to paint it again when it´s done.

Anyway, i´m working on the passenger door and it hits the body when i´m closing it, right where it gets wider below the B-pillar. I thought i could move it further forward to clear this but then it hits the upper radius area below the A-pillar. I have removed some material on the door but not enough to have it closed yet. Is this normal that you must grind the fiberglass to make it fit?

Thanks
/Johan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the reply, I guess there´s nothing more to do than grind and measure until the doors fit then :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,231 Posts
Yes, the doors are oversized and need to be fitted to the body by grinding down the areas that are too big to fit the opening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you.
How much gap is needed around the doors? I have a tight spot where the door is touching the body when opening. Its in the hinge area right where the upper radius is starting. I have a gap of 4mm or 0.157" at the moment.

/Johan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,231 Posts
When first fitting and getting the doors hinged and latched, I set them up with almost zero gap. I do make sure there is some gap and that the door is not touching the body anywhere once it's hinged and latched, but as long as I can slide a piece of paper between the door and body, that is where I like to start from. It's easy to remove material......not so easy to put it back......so I prefer to make 100% sure I have the door hinged, latched and adjusted properly with zero contact between the door and the body (so that the contact between the door and body is not effecting how the door fits) so that I have room to move the door around if I have to make further adjustments without opening up a huge door gap somewhere on the door.

.157" is probably pretty close to what we set door gap here. I'm guessing the issue you're having is more an issue with main body alignment. I have ran into that same issue on a few builds. With the doors off the car, you should be able to sight down thru the center of the door hinge bushings on the frame. That puts the pivot point of the door right outside of the body opening. If the body opening in the main body is blocking you from being able to see down thru the door hinge bushings, that means the pivot point of the door is inside the main body....which means that the door is going to do just what you describe.....the farther you open the door, the harder it pivots into the body. My guess is that the cowl area of your main body is not centered on the chassis or you don't have the cowl propped up where it needs to be with the wiper close-out box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
When first fitting and getting the doors hinged and latched, I set them up with almost zero gap. I do make sure there is some gap and that the door is not touching the body anywhere once it's hinged and latched, but as long as I can slide a piece of paper between the door and body, that is where I like to start from. It's easy to remove material......not so easy to put it back......so I prefer to make 100% sure I have the door hinged, latched and adjusted properly with zero contact between the door and the body (so that the contact between the door and body is not effecting how the door fits) so that I have room to move the door around if I have to make further adjustments without opening up a huge door gap somewhere on the door.

.157" is probably pretty close to what we set door gap here. I'm guessing the issue you're having is more an issue with main body alignment. I have ran into that same issue on a few builds. With the doors off the car, you should be able to sight down thru the center of the door hinge bushings on the frame. That puts the pivot point of the door right outside of the body opening. If the body opening in the main body is blocking you from being able to see down thru the door hinge bushings, that means the pivot point of the door is inside the main body....which means that the door is going to do just what you describe.....the farther you open the door, the harder it pivots into the body. My guess is that the cowl area of your main body is not centered on the chassis or you don't have the cowl propped up where it needs to be with the wiper close-out box.
Thank you, that’s exacly whats happening. But how do i adjust the main body? The body is tucked in the wiper box and around the frame in the bottom. I’ll send some pictures. It looks to me that the body needs to go further towards the front tires. But that’s not possible.
364247
364248
364249
364250
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There’s also a huge gap between the roof and the top of the cage pipe in the center of the windscreen opening. Is this normal? The roof is in contact on 4 corners of the cage but not on the pipe that goes over the windshield.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,231 Posts
The body looks like it's tight against the main aluminum panels that are captured by the front suspension. The top rear edge of the aluminum that butts up against the cowl normally needs to be trimmed back a bit to allow the body to move forward. Once you get it forward, then you can measure from that same aluminum panel out to the wheel arch to get the front of the body centered on the chassis....which normally allows you to be able to see down thru the door hinges on both sides of the car.

The photo where your finger is at the front of the door.....the main body needs to be sanded down to a knife edge there to allow that leading corner of the door to rotate behind the body....and the area above your finger on the main body probably needs to be cut out farther up so that your knife edge extends up past the pivot point of the door. Again, you can find that pivot point by sighting down thru the hinges and marking the main body at that intersection......knife edge from there on down and must be cut out at least that high or the door is going to pivot into the body there.

The gap between the halo and roof should not be a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The body looks like it's tight against the main aluminum panels that are captured by the front suspension. The top rear edge of the aluminum that butts up against the cowl normally needs to be trimmed back a bit to allow the body to move forward. Once you get it forward, then you can measure from that same aluminum panel out to the wheel arch to get the front of the body centered on the chassis....which normally allows you to be able to see down thru the door hinges on both sides of the car.

The photo where your finger is at the front of the door.....the main body needs to be sanded down to a knife edge there to allow that leading corner of the door to rotate behind the body....and the area above your finger on the main body probably needs to be cut out farther up so that your knife edge extends up past the pivot point of the door. Again, you can find that pivot point by sighting down thru the hinges and marking the main body at that intersection......knife edge from there on down and must be cut out at least that high or the door is going to pivot into the body there.

The gap between the halo and roof should not be a problem.
Great info. Thanks. I think i have figured out the body alignment now. One thing that the manual doesn´t say is how to properly fix the body in the back while you work on the doors and front alignment. I have put a stand under the body in the back but this prevents me from lifting the car from the ground while working on it. Once I lift it the body sinks down in the back and im back where i started.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,231 Posts
You need to make a bracket for the back of the body. The bracket mounts to the top of the very rear chassis tube and the license plate area of the body attaches to the bracket. The bottom edge of the license plate area needs to be flush with the top of the chassis tube. Normally, we just cut a 14ga steel plate, bend it past 90 so that it matches the angle where the chassis and body meets and rivet the plate to the top of the chassis tube and rivet the body to the plate.

You will also want to get all of the rear wheel well aluminum close-out panels trimmed and fitted and cleco'd in place with the bulb seal before you start working on door fitment, as those panels also support the rear of the body and effect the way the body fits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank you Shane,
For now i have made a wood bracket that the body sits on, but it´s not fixed. I´ll begin making a metal bracket so i can fix the body in position.

Great help. Thank you once again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Thank you Shane,
For now i have made a wood bracket that the body sits on, but it´s not fixed. I´ll begin making a metal bracket so i can fix the body in position.

Great help. Thank you once again.
Check out my below link starting at Post 644 and going through Post 657 for my venture in getting the rear of the body in place. I followed Shane's directions perfectly and now my left to right rear measurement is within 1/32" and my height is dead on.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Check out my below link starting at Post 644 and going through Post 657 for my venture in getting the rear of the body in place. I followed Shane's directions perfectly and now my left to right rear measurement is within 1/32" and my height is dead on.

I’ll read this Shoeless, thank you very much for the link.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Forgot to ask. Is is close enough to measure to body height from the floor of the car? My car sits on jack stands on the lower control arms. So i cannot get a valid result measuring to the hub/wheel arch.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Forgot to ask. Is is close enough to measure to body height from the floor of the car? My car sits on jack stands on the lower control arms. So i cannot get a valid result measuring to the hub/wheel arch.

Thanks
I would move your jack stands to the frame of the car and measure from the wheel arch to the hub when the suspension is in full droop. Or you can measure from the top of the rim, with the suspension in full droop, to the wheel arch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I would move your jack stands to the frame of the car and measure from the wheel arch to the hub when the suspension is in full droop. Or you can measure from the top of the rim, with the suspension in full droop, to the wheel arch.
Ok, but wouldn’t the camber settings give me a false reading when doing so? None of the wheel alignment has been done to the car. And the guy who began building the car have riveted the sheet metal underneath the car already, so i really dont have any good jackstand points, well maybe in the back i could place them on the square tube between the lower control arm mounts. Problem then is i have a short distance between the jack stands. But i could try. I have tried a different method today by using a long straight edge underneath the frame to measure the distance to the top of the wheel well. Do you think this method is ok? I also fixed a long 20x8mm aluminium piece on the rear lower square tubing to measure the wheel well center. But that was harder to get in position. Right now i have a difference of about 10mm (0.39”) between the left and right side. I welded up an aluminium bracket from some leftovers so i could clamp the body (i will make a new bracket for final installation), i also clamped some aluminium pieces underneath the rear square frame so i could put a 1” distance to fix the body in correct height. In the front i had to measure the height from the floor, but what about the side cowl panels, do they go flush with the body or do i leave a gap? If i leave a gap they will line up with the firewall panel, and if i set them flush with the body they will be in a slight angle from the firewall panel.

How do you fix each side of the body in front? I was thinking of drilling a hole right outside the firewall panel and bolt each side in place. This bolt will later on be one of the bolts that attach the side cowl panels (last picture)

wow lot’s of questions. Sorry about that.

here’s some pictures
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Let's see if I can answer as much of this as I can. I'll try to do them one by one.

Ok, but wouldn’t the camber settings give me a false reading when doing so?
- I've got The Race Shop's alignment shims instead of the camber bolts and I have the same shims on both sides. Does that mean the alignment is the same on both sides, probably not but its close. The first thing you should do when setting the body correctly in the rear is setting the height first. At this point I drilled and secured by steel plate to the body that then rests on the transaxle mount. Then you can push the body left and right, while the plate holds it at a constant height, then clamp the plate to the transaxle frame when the left and right is set. Then through drill the transaxle and plate that is secured to the body. When you are setting the left and right alignment you need to measure from the coil over top mount on the frame out to the wheel arch on the body. Then I measure from the wheel arch to the spindle on both sides and see how it made out. Following these steps will get the body aligned in the rear properly.

None of the wheel alignment has been done to the car. And the guy who began building the car have riveted the sheet metal underneath the car already, so i really dont have any good jackstand points, well maybe in the back i could place them on the square tube between the lower control arm mounts. Problem then is i have a short distance between the jack stands. But i could try.
- The square tubing between the control arms is where I have mine for the moment.

I have tried a different method today by using a long straight edge underneath the frame to measure the distance to the top of the wheel well. Do you think this method is ok?
- In theory I don't see why this wouldn't work.

I also fixed a long 20x8mm aluminium piece on the rear lower square tubing to measure the wheel well center. But that was harder to get in position. Right now i have a difference of about 10mm (0.39”) between the left and right side.
- I would try the method noted above setting the left and right first and then setting the heigh and see how this comes out.

In the front i had to measure the height from the floor, but what about the side cowl panels, do they go flush with the body or do i leave a gap? If i leave a gap they will line up with the firewall panel, and if i set them flush with the body they will be in a slight angle from the firewall panel. How do you fix each side of the body in front? I was thinking of drilling a hole right outside the firewall panel and bolt each side in place. This bolt will later on be one of the bolts that attach the side cowl panels (last picture)
- Not sure on these as I haven't gotten that far just yet on my build.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Let's see if I can answer as much of this as I can. I'll try to do them one by one.

Ok, but wouldn’t the camber settings give me a false reading when doing so?
- I've got The Race Shop's alignment shims instead of the camber bolts and I have the same shims on both sides. Does that mean the alignment is the same on both sides, probably not but its close. The first thing you should do when setting the body correctly in the rear is setting the height first. At this point I drilled and secured by steel plate to the body that then rests on the transaxle mount. Then you can push the body left and right, while the plate holds it at a constant height, then clamp the plate to the transaxle frame when the left and right is set. Then through drill the transaxle and plate that is secured to the body. When you are setting the left and right alignment you need to measure from the coil over top mount on the frame out to the wheel arch on the body. Then I measure from the wheel arch to the spindle on both sides and see how it made out. Following these steps will get the body aligned in the rear properly.

None of the wheel alignment has been done to the car. And the guy who began building the car have riveted the sheet metal underneath the car already, so i really dont have any good jackstand points, well maybe in the back i could place them on the square tube between the lower control arm mounts. Problem then is i have a short distance between the jack stands. But i could try.
- The square tubing between the control arms is where I have mine for the moment.

I have tried a different method today by using a long straight edge underneath the frame to measure the distance to the top of the wheel well. Do you think this method is ok?
- In theory I don't see why this wouldn't work.

I also fixed a long 20x8mm aluminium piece on the rear lower square tubing to measure the wheel well center. But that was harder to get in position. Right now i have a difference of about 10mm (0.39”) between the left and right side.
- I would try the method noted above setting the left and right first and then setting the heigh and see how this comes out.

In the front i had to measure the height from the floor, but what about the side cowl panels, do they go flush with the body or do i leave a gap? If i leave a gap they will line up with the firewall panel, and if i set them flush with the body they will be in a slight angle from the firewall panel. How do you fix each side of the body in front? I was thinking of drilling a hole right outside the firewall panel and bolt each side in place. This bolt will later on be one of the bolts that attach the side cowl panels (last picture)
- Not sure on these as I haven't gotten that far just yet on my build.
Thank you for the reply.
I have measured the car all over and the side and height measurements are dead on. Within 1mm (0.04”) but i have a problem with the body rotation over the frame. The driver side is further towards the front than the passenger side, the body is flush towards the square pipes by the door hinges on both sides, and also flush towards the latch pin bracket on the driver side. I have a gap on the passenger side bracket.

It looks like my only solution is to cut away the driver side latch pin bracket to adjust the body more towards the rear. The difference between both sides are 7mm now (0.27”) where the driver side is more towards the front.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Thank you for the reply.
I have measured the car all over and the side and height measurements are dead on. Within 1mm (0.04”) but i have a problem with the body rotation over the frame. The driver side is further towards the front than the passenger side, the body is flush towards the square pipes by the door hinges on both sides, and also flush towards the latch pin bracket on the driver side. I have a gap on the passenger side bracket.

It looks like my only solution is to cut away the driver side latch pin bracket to adjust the body more towards the rear. The difference between both sides are 7mm now (0.27”) where the driver side is more towards the front.
Perfect, glad to hear you have the side and height dead on. Now that that is confirmed the next step is setting the front of the body as far forward as possible against the square tubing you are showing in the pics. The driver's side of the body will fit perfectly between the square tube at the front of the door opening and the striker mounting plate, don't do anything to the driver's side as this is a perfect fit. On the passenger side when you pull the body as far forward up against the square tubing, there will be a gap between the body and the door striker plate. At this point you need to cut the door striker plate off, clamp it up against the body and tack it in place so that it looks just like the driver's side. Then when you pull the body off you can weld it up all around in its new location.

I will say I need to give Shane (VRaptor) total credit for all these latest instructions I've been providing. I have literally been navigating these exact steps on my build over the last couple month and Shane has been nice enough to share exactly what to do. BTW the majority of this is outlined on my build thread fairly recently on the other forum, but feel free to keep posting questions and I'll answer the best I can. Good luck!!!
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top