This may sound like a dumb question but, I was thinking about putting a 429 in a cobra. Is it possiable? Is the 429 now a racing motor, I can't find which car it is in stock? the perfect situation would be a wrecked car that has that engine in it stock. but I don't know if that car exists. I did find out that the 91 Bronco's had the 351's. Also what does that W or M mean after the 351 ?
Ford 429 engine
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Tjac-
The "W" means Windsor, the foundry factory where the engine was built. The "M" stands for marine. The M engines are marine engines. There are also 302C and 351C engines, which are Cleveland engines. They use a different block and heads. But I believe the Windsor heads will fit on a Cleveland block.
The 429 is called the "385" series of big block engines. Ford made three different 429's - passenger engines , Cobra Jet, and Super Cobra Jet. The first is pretty clear. The CJ used 2-bolt mains and a steel crank, and the SCJ used 4-bolt mains, and a bigger cam. I also believe the SCJ had larger intake ports, and larger intake/exhaust valves. Finding a SCJ engine is a little harder and more expensive than the passenger or CJ engine.
A 460 is nothing more than a stroked 429. The bigger the stroke, the more torque the engine will produce. 429's were great for Mustangs, but lacked the torque needed for trucks. 429/460 engine components are interchangeable, except for the Boss 429, which used hemi heads.
I'm currently building a bored/stroked 460 which will displace 532 cubic inches. And yes, it will fit in the FFR Roadster, albeit it will be tight.
You can get 429's from various salvage yards, but you would be better off going with a crate motor from Ford. They make two 460's (486 HP and 535 HP), complete with aluminum heads.
Hope this helps
2FAST
[ November 21, 2002, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: 2FAST4U ]
The "W" means Windsor, the foundry factory where the engine was built. The "M" stands for marine. The M engines are marine engines. There are also 302C and 351C engines, which are Cleveland engines. They use a different block and heads. But I believe the Windsor heads will fit on a Cleveland block.
The 429 is called the "385" series of big block engines. Ford made three different 429's - passenger engines , Cobra Jet, and Super Cobra Jet. The first is pretty clear. The CJ used 2-bolt mains and a steel crank, and the SCJ used 4-bolt mains, and a bigger cam. I also believe the SCJ had larger intake ports, and larger intake/exhaust valves. Finding a SCJ engine is a little harder and more expensive than the passenger or CJ engine.
A 460 is nothing more than a stroked 429. The bigger the stroke, the more torque the engine will produce. 429's were great for Mustangs, but lacked the torque needed for trucks. 429/460 engine components are interchangeable, except for the Boss 429, which used hemi heads.
I'm currently building a bored/stroked 460 which will displace 532 cubic inches. And yes, it will fit in the FFR Roadster, albeit it will be tight.
You can get 429's from various salvage yards, but you would be better off going with a crate motor from Ford. They make two 460's (486 HP and 535 HP), complete with aluminum heads.
Hope this helps
2FAST
[ November 21, 2002, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: 2FAST4U ]
I have never heard of the "M" standing for Midland. The 351M is known as the 351 Modified. It uses the same head design as the 351 Cleveland and the same block deck heighth as the 400. The 351M was found in trucks and cars from about 1975 to 1979. A lot of people with trucks with a 351 thought they had a 351 Cleveland, but the Cleveland was never used in a truck.
Windsor and Cleveland heads will physically interchange, but the water passages must be modified to cool properly. They must also use a custom intake manifold. Cleveland heads on a 302 were a good upgrade until the aftermarket supply came along.
The only 302Cleveland was the Boss 302 in '69 and '70.The Boss 302 block is the same as the standard 302 dimensionally, but is much beefier and has 4 bolt mains.
As for the 429, they were used in the late 60's in Mercury and Ford luxury cars. Ford also built a 429 that was used in large trucks and school buses. The 429 and 460 use the same block and rods and different pistons and crank.
If you want to use a 429, I would go with the 460 instead. There are a lot more of them available and externally they are the same.
Chris
[ November 21, 2002, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: FFRKing ]
Windsor and Cleveland heads will physically interchange, but the water passages must be modified to cool properly. They must also use a custom intake manifold. Cleveland heads on a 302 were a good upgrade until the aftermarket supply came along.
The only 302Cleveland was the Boss 302 in '69 and '70.The Boss 302 block is the same as the standard 302 dimensionally, but is much beefier and has 4 bolt mains.
As for the 429, they were used in the late 60's in Mercury and Ford luxury cars. Ford also built a 429 that was used in large trucks and school buses. The 429 and 460 use the same block and rods and different pistons and crank.
If you want to use a 429, I would go with the 460 instead. There are a lot more of them available and externally they are the same.
Chris
[ November 21, 2002, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: FFRKing ]
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Found this link that explains the 351C/M/W in detail.
From the article
2FAST
[ November 21, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: 2FAST4U ]
From the article
Ford 351M/400 History
2FAST
[ November 21, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: 2FAST4U ]
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A good place to find a 429 is in a late 60's T-bird.
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You can find a 429 in a 69 or 70 Thunderbird (my grandma had one) or early 70's Ranchero - I'm sure there were others - maybe some lincoln applications and I think maybe 71 or 72 Mustangs. There is no reason to choose a 429 over a 460 - they are the same motor except for the stroke and the pin height in the pistons - change those two and you can convert to a 460 so there isn't even a weight penalty.
The Boss 429 was a totally different engine - some parts will swap, but the block and heads are unique.
I dont think there has ever been a production 385 series (reg 429 & 460) block with 4-bolt mains. I think the Boss did.
Steve C - you want to chime in here? You're somewhat of an expert in hunting 429/460 parts
John
The Boss 429 was a totally different engine - some parts will swap, but the block and heads are unique.
I dont think there has ever been a production 385 series (reg 429 & 460) block with 4-bolt mains. I think the Boss did.
Steve C - you want to chime in here? You're somewhat of an expert in hunting 429/460 parts
John
Do you know what kind of condition it's in , what kind of Cylinder compression does it have? Just about the lenght of my konwledge that there is a difference in compression ratios that effect the horsepower and torque. I've heard of some one pulling a big block out of a truck and had to redue the clyinders for better power.
[ November 21, 2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Tjac ]
[ November 21, 2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Tjac ]
As I said, the engine came out of a 1970 Lincoln, so its not a truck engine. Don't know the specs, but as it's a 1970, I suspect the CR would be up around 10:1. He had the heads reconditioned before he dropped it in the truck. Truck's been off the road now for a good 5-6 years. He starts the engine up a couple times a year, so I know it still runs. Was a low mileage engine when we put it in the truck. That was back in '94. Had it on the road for a couple of years and then lost several teeth off the ring gear in the rear. Parked it out back and it's been sitting there rusting away ever since. The truck's a 1978 F350 4x4 with the extended cab. Big, heavy truck, but that 460 would make it get up and go!! Can't even imagine that kind of power in a 2200lb FFR.
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Ahhhh the good old days. I had a 429 Cobra Jet in my 1970 Torino.....You could hear the gas being sucked down that carb from 100 yards away....
Oh yeah by the way in case everyone forgot, that was when they actually had back seats in cars...
If you know what I mean...
Oh yeah by the way in case everyone forgot, that was when they actually had back seats in cars...
If you know what I mean...
Care to ask him how much he would let it go for? I may be able to pick it up with the kit, our trip up to wareup is planned to be a vacation \ picking up the kit so it would be possiable for me to go up there and get it. Also shipping could be arranged.
Hey Cory - Wanna feel young again?
http://home.attbi.com/~shep927/wsb/html/view.cgi-image.html--SiteID-71025.html
S'not a 429, just a poor ole 351 Cleveland.
http://home.attbi.com/~shep927/wsb/html/view.cgi-image.html--SiteID-71025.html
S'not a 429, just a poor ole 351 Cleveland.
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The best 429 block that is commonly available is from the 70 t-bird, this is the only year block with a lot of material between the main caps and oil pan rails. You can machine it for an aftermarket ( roush ) 4 bolt main cap kit. It also passes the sonic test for wall thickness around the bores nicely. The super cj block had 4 bolt mains but good luck finding one lying around anywhere. Start with this block and put 460 parts in it for the best combo. As others said, the 429 and 460 are the same motor except for the stroke. It also had closed chamber heads, but using aluminum ones is a better way to go. looking for this block is as easy as reading the first digits of the id # by the starter motor. reads DOVE
Tjac - He is open to offers, but with the understanding that whoever wants the engine has to pull it themselves. It's accessable, out in his back yard. Bear in mind that it's doing him no good just sitting there!! I did find out that he rebuilt the entire engine before we installed it. New pistons, rods, bearings, reconditioned heads, rebuilt Holley 4bbl. Approximately 5000 miles on the engine since the rebuild. It does have a C6 behind it, so that would mean you'd have to change the flywheel if you went to a standard shift. His e-mail address is [email protected] if you want o ask him questions. Name's Frank Baker. Lives about 45 minutes NW of FFR.
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This topic caught my attention because we installed a 1970 T-Bird 429 in our Pro Street 1953 Ford F-100 Pickup in 1987. It was a junkyard motor that we paid $100 for including the C-6. The HP in those days was 360 rating, the compression like 11:1 so that was the last year before "smog motors" killed performance. We installed it without rebuild of any kind.
Anyway, we have used it without fault for 15 years and the only issue is the compression. The vacuum advance is disconnected so it does not ping. Plenty of power. I understand the cam timing is for performance (and different that a 460); the engine wants higher octane gas than we have out here in Oregon. Where is the Chevron Custom Supreme 103 octane in the white tank when we need it?
Anyway, if you have a chance at a 429, you won't be disappointed with the way it runs.
--LNJ
Anyway, we have used it without fault for 15 years and the only issue is the compression. The vacuum advance is disconnected so it does not ping. Plenty of power. I understand the cam timing is for performance (and different that a 460); the engine wants higher octane gas than we have out here in Oregon. Where is the Chevron Custom Supreme 103 octane in the white tank when we need it?
Anyway, if you have a chance at a 429, you won't be disappointed with the way it runs.
--LNJ
Tjac, I have a 70' Lincoln 460 in my FFR. Mine had a power steering pump built into the front timing cover. Had to get a standard timing cover from a junkyard and it was a pain getting the pump off the crankshaft. It's worth the trouble though because it is a high compression(10.2:1 if I remember correctly) 460 and was rated at 360 HP(4 barrel) from the factory. I would also highly suggest an aftermarket high performance oil pump drive shaft. I bought my motor and a 69 429 from a guy for $250 and they both needed rebuilding due to sheared oil pump drives. I had my short block blueprinted and ballanced and installed a Crane Hyd. Roller retrofit cam(rediculously expensive) and Edelbrock Al. heads. These motors are extremely torquey. One of my friends bought the 429 from me and did a quicky rebuild, rings and bearings and an al. intake and put it in a 72 2-door Ford LTD. That big ugly(Brown!) LTD would out run my 97 Cobra Mustang that I used to have and that was through stock exhaust manifolds and a tall 2.70 gear.
Have Fun!
Dan
Have Fun!
Dan
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