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FIREARMS REFRESHER COURSE: A to Z

a.. An armed person is a citizen. An unarmed person is a subject.

b.. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

c.. Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.

d.. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

e.. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

f.. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

g.. Free people do not ask permission to bear arms.

h.. If you don't know your rights you don't have any.

i.. Those who trade liberty for security have neither- 60,000,000 Citizens were exterminated by their own governments in the 20th century.... will the 21st be any better???

j.. The United States Constitution - 1791. All Rights Reserved.

k.. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

l.. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

m.. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

n.. Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

o.. Know guns, know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety.

p.. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

q.. 911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer.

r.. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

s.. Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer.

t.. If Guns cause Crime, then Matches cause Arson.

u.. Only a government that is afraid of it's citizens tries to control them.

v.. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

w.. Enforce the "gun control laws" we have, don't make more.

x.. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

y.. The American Revolution would never have happened with Gun Control.

z.. "...a government by the people, for the people..."
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Mine is Ted Nugent
 

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One of the primary triggers for the Revolution was that old King George tried to disarm the unruly Colonists. The original "From my cold, dead hands."
What's the difference between a citizen and a subject? The Second Amendment.
 

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There was a great E-mail circulating stating the differences in a liberal and his family when confronted by a thug and a gun owning conservative when confronted by the same thug.

After much dialog and social programs to try to reform the thug the liberal ends up being robbed.
The Gun owner's response...Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam...sounD of reloading Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam...Gun owners daughter then states "nice grouping daddy!"
 

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AMEN...well said!(or well typed?)
Ken
 

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Don't believe all that you saw on that POS Michael Moore movie Giff. Even when dealing with a old guy in the early stages of Alzheimers MM had to splice and cut to really make him look bad.

Personally, even though I like him as an actor and he seems to be a great guy I didn't like him as VP of the NRA and I generally dislike using 'celebrities' to emphasize political points. I put no more stock into what Chuck Heston has to say than I do Sean Penn. My opinion is who cares if they are famous, what has that to do with anything?

But onto the point, Go Constitution! (all of it :D )
 

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You'll put your eye out! ;) ... :D
 

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1 in 6 parents know a child (defined as someone under the age of 16) who has suffered a self inflicted gun injury (Harvard School of Public Health)

There were 0 recorded accidental firearm deaths amongst children under 15 in the UK from 1995-2000. (Home Office)

Every 5 years more young American men are killed in gun violence than died in the course of the Vietnam war (National Center for Health Statistics - Deaths per annum from firearm injuries) Department of Defense Almanac - deaths in combat, Vietnam)

90% of all the people under the age of 25 who are murdered each year in the industrialised world are American. (UNCF)

A gun kept in the house is 43 times more likely to result in the death of a family member than be used in any form of engagement in self defence. (Kellermann and Reay, N.E. Journal of Medicine)

I'm reasonably confident that there are fora elsewhere relating to guns and self-defence ?
 

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UK,
Forgive me, but I can't leave those to stand on their own.

The one thing they never tell you in those "killed by firarms" statistics is that they had to include shootings from police officers to get the numbers that high.

And that UNCF number is not shootings but murder by any method.

This is not meant to be a flame so please don't take it that way.

I'll close by pointing out a very simple fact ( I don't have numbers, so it is not a statistic):
In those cities (in America, as I don't know about Britain) with strict gun control, there are a high number of murders and violent crime commited with firearms.(LA, New York, Washington DC) In those cities with less control (Richmond), or less restricted access to public concealed weapons permits, the same type crime numbers are much lower. There are a few places in this country where it is required by law for a resident to own a firearm. Guess what, almost no violent crime commited with firearms and a much lower crime rate over all.

I respect you right to have an opinion, I just don't agree with it.

As an aside, you might look up the change in violent crime statistics in Australia when they implimented strict gun control measures.

nuff' said...


John
 

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Yahoooo.....Guns are great man!

'till you get shot by one!

Ask me how I know!
(Ok I edited the name calling part.)
But seriously...I'm not sure what sparked this thread up but I am a firm believer that nothing but trouble comes from owning a gun. It's my opinion and, seeing as this got posted, it is now a free for all. I think that most of the people that posted above, about owning guns being a right of every American, have never been affected by the use of a gun. Well let me tell you it ain't fun. Not hoping that anyone has a fatal experience or anything, but I wonder what your outlook on them would/will be if something were to happen in a bad way. I'm not going to get into statististics or any big debate here, just check back in with me after your wife gets shot, or your child gets killed, or maybe by a stray bullet killing one of your parents!
Yeah just check in with me then!
Yep guns are simply the most fantastic thing we have ever come up with. I mean sure makes for great population control.
Reminds me though... I have to go into East Dorchester on Saturday...Better get my Kevlar out! :rolleyes:

[ September 08, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Cobra Cory ]



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"The one thing they never tell you in those "killed by firarms" statistics is that they had to include shootings from police officers to get the numbers that high."

But then we don't have, or need, a routinely armed police force. Shootings by police are an event meriting national news coverage.

That's quite true, as regards the UNCF figures, but of course it applies generally.

The 'simple fact' is often quoted, but doesn't take into account any other factors. Very few of the cities that have low restrictions on gun control have high incidences of inner city poverty with the consequent violent crime that results.

The Australian experience is interesting, although Keith Tidswell's (ASSA representative) claims, widely quoted, don't fit well with the police statistics. They didn't ban all weapons, or indeed introduce stronger controls in many areas. They introduced strong controls, as did Britain for similar reasons, on automatic weapons, following a series of massacres.

There's a belief amongst American shooters that the situation in Australia and Britain prior to the bans allowed citizens to defend themselves with firearms and that this was lost, causing an increase in the rate of violent crime. It isn't true, nobody carried a firearm in public, nor did they, at least in Britain, have them readily available for self defence.

A final thought, I lived in Liverpool for 5 years, it has the highest rate of crime in the UK. In England: I have never seen a weapon drawn in anger (including by the police.) I have never seen an illegally held weapon. I do not know anyone who has been involved in any form of incident with a firearm.
 

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If it werent for guns the local convenience store clerk would not have been shot in the face because he got in an argument. Guns are one of the biggest mistakes ever invented in my opinion. The problems firearms cause are caused by firearms themselves.

Thats just my opinion anyhow.
 

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UK, I'm with Planedoc. Unfortunately, you get fed what your oppressive government wants you to believe and not much else. The "statistics" they quote ad nauseum are often taken out of context and sometimes outright wrong and made up. Our liberal media tries the same thing all the time, but fortunately we have voices of reason as well. As for your comment about young males being the victims of gun violence, the majority are gang members, are illegally in possession of the guns they use on one another, and bring said violence upon themselves. The guns themselves are usually obtained by unlawful means as well. These "young men" are criminal predators, and if they couldn't get their hands on firearms they would use other weapons to carry out their senseless attacks on one another. Think about this: if some 250-pound career criminal on acid comes bashing into your bedroom in the middle of the night, who are you going to call? The police? They would be very lucky to get there within 15 minutes. Even in my small community, they could take more than 5 minutes to get there. How much damage and pain could said 250-pound drug-crazed individual cause in 5 minutes? 15 minutes? Do you see where I'm coming from here? Break into my house and you're looking sight-down a 12-gauge pump. Do as I say or you'll be splattered against the wall. End of story. Send a mop. It's your right and responsibility to defend yourself and your family in your own home. Guess what? Our Supreme Court has declared that a policeman's job is not to protect or defend individual citizens, but rather to uphold and enforce the law. He'll be happy to come investigate what happened and, if you're lucky (or alive), find a suspect and make an arrest. If you're hoping he'll ride in to save your day, I hope for your sake you're well armed. Sorry for the rant. I have pretty strong feelings where family safety and well-being are concerned.
 

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....and another thing. If gun ownership is so bad or dangerous, why is it then that in every single state where "shall issue" right-to-carry laws have been enacted that violent crime rates have dropped dramatically? And why then is it that the cities with the most oppressive gun laws (ie NYC and Chicago) also have the highest violent crime rates? The reason is simple: criminals want an easy target. I forget the book or the author, but I do remember that he interviewed career criminals to help compile his data. They all said basically the same thing: they weren't afraid of getting caught or even going to jail. The one thing these career burglars fear is an armed homeowner. Like me. Not you. You're an easy target, all wrapped up with a big red bow on top. Sorry, but that's the way criminals see you.
 

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With regard to gang members, yes, of course they would use other means. However, if you get into a knife fight with me (unlikely, but stick with me for the benefit of the argument) it might not end with either of us dead and, unless they come within arms reach, nobody else will be affected. The same can't be said where handguns are dispatched.

Both sides of the argument use the statistics to their own ends, that's true of any political argument. I would hope that, with the possible exception of the 43:1 ratio, which falls to 'only' 9:1 if you accept the NRA's take on the figures, the sources for those above are beyond reproach.

Have there been a lot of home invasions by 250lb career criminals on acid in your community ? What makes you think that you'd have the time, the ability or the opportunity to get off an effective shot, even in the wildly unlikely event of this occurance ?

I'm absolutely sure that nobody here leaves their 12 gauge pump within potential reach of, say, their five year old kid, but tragically it happens every year.

It beggars belief that anyone living in the US can regard our government as oppressive, especially where media independence is concerned, but that's a whole different issue.
 

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I see and respect your opinions as I hope you see and respect mine. I do hope I am never faced with an assailant in my home, but we have a well-rehearsed plan in place should such an unfortunate event ever take place. It takes me less than 15 seconds to unlock and deploy that shotgun, and another 1/3 of a second to rack a round into the chamber. Have you ever heard a 12-gauge pump slide? Most people know that sound (thanks to TV), and it alone would be enough to stop most any fight since no one wants to know what comes next. However, if that isn't enough, I am fully prepared to squeeze that trigger and send a load of 00 buck into the unfortunate soul who would attack me or my family. At a range of 15 feet, the pattern will be about 12" across -- not too hard to aim for those results. I can hip-shoot that gun all day and hit a man-sized target every time at 15 feet. The safety aspect of a scattergun also comes into play -- it's unlikely any pellets will penetrate both sides of a wall the way a bullet would, which is why the pistols stay in the safe. Also, for the record there are no small children on my house and the children who are here are trained in firearm safety and do not have access to any of them unless I am there to provide it. Period. BTW, my in-laws were broken into one night. The guy was 6'5" and weighed about 265. When the police arrived to arrest his sniveling a*s, they also found PCPs on him and a later drug test showed him to have in in his system as well. I was there to see how quickly he came into compliance with my father-in-law when he racked a round into the chamber of his own shotgun. He was crying and begging not to be shot. Works for me...
I'm not paranoid, and I would never suggest that gun ownership is right for everyone. Indeed, I know plenty of people who should never have access to firearms for whatever reason. I'm just glad we have the right to make our own choice and I choose to own guns both for family protection and the simple pleasure of going plinking with my wife and sons. And this business of blaming firearms for crimes makes as much sense as blaming cars for drunk driving. It's not the object that kills, it's the nutcase operating the object. I think we can all agree on that.
 
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