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The Greek
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3,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To all engine experts...
I am waiting on my Mk3 to arrive any day now, and I am trying to get all my parts together.
My question is as follows:

1-I am looking at a nice 331 stroker short block and at the edelbrock total package (heads, cam, intake, timing chain, etc.) 331 short block around $1500 (local=no shipping fees) and edelbrock about 1/2 the price of retail (connections).
This will be used as a Fuel Injected setup, with a T5. I will be using the FI from my donor and all other needed parts.

2-The 331 is balanced at 28.8oz. As I understand stck is 50oz? Correct? Thus I need to buy 28.8oz?
From where?

3-Will the above package work good together? and approximate flywheel hp? or RWHP?

4-I would like to assemble it myself (never done anything like this but am good with mech. stuff) any tips etc.?

The reason I want to go this route is:
My donor has 140k miles, need more power (not too much, just more), to stroke my bottom end will cost approximately the same as this 331,
my donor is a 94 so timing cover etc need to be changed any way, and the price will be about $3200 for complete engine when I am done. Well maybe add some $$$ for some extras.
From my donor I am using only the rear dif, the ECM and associted wirring, spindles, trans, tank etc
I know about the 88-93 ECM and wirring being easier but I am going to keep ABS thus I need the 94 ECM, correct?


My donor:

My engine:


Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated...
 

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Blue Oval Scribe
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9,177 Posts
What you have to remember is that the larger the displacement the more air flow you need. While not quite in big-block territory, a 331 breathes deeper than a 302. You need the proper cam, valve sizes, and cylinder head/intake flow to support the displacement. You'll be hurting power potential if you use your donor EFI intake and headers on a 331. Will it work? Yes. Will it make the best power? No.

The '94 ABS uses a separate ABS module/computer. It isn't tied into the the EEC-IV PCM. You could theoretically use '89-'93 EEC-IV or aftermarket, like Mass-Flo and strip the ABS controller and wiring from your donor and wire separately.

Most stroker engines are balanced to the 28 oz. balance factor. If your short block does not come with a flywheel and damper you will need to purchase them along with your other engine parts.

HTH...
Mark
 

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The Greek
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3,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanx Mark,
Your response brings on more questions...
The donor's FI should work with a larger fuel Pump (250) larger injectors (30lbs)???????
Lots of Mustang guys I believe use this setup.
 

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Former Roadster Owner
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1,861 Posts
Your engine is only going to run as good as the most limiting part in the combination.

As Mustang Man suggested above, running a stock intake system really isn't recommended for your set up. It would be like building a nice performance engine and running a stock 2bbl carb--well, you get the point. Get an after market upper and lower to match your combo.

If you run bigger injectors you'll need to run a after market MAF. 30 lb injectors sound about right for a mild 331. If you go with an after market intake set up (as suggested) don't forget the slightly larger throttle body as well.

If the 331 assembly is new and of good quality than $1500 is a great deal. You could NOT rebuild your donor 302 with a stroker kit for $1500 or any where close if done correctly. The only red flag here is if the 331 you are looking at was balanced correctly, where is the balancer and flywheel that were balanced with it?

Assuming it was balanced correctly with a specific balancer and flywheel that was then used later on a different engine, leaving "your" 331 absent of those two items, replacing them with other 28oz parts may be close, but you'll never know unless....

What I'd do is disassemble the 331 and take the entire rotating assembly to a good machine shop. Buy a 28oz balancer and a 28oz 157 tooth flywheel and have a shop balance it for you. This should only run you $150-$250 depending on the shop and time needed to complete the job.

I'm in CA so if you need help with the engine build or rebalance, let me know. Do it once, do it right.

-dan
 

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The Greek
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3,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey Dan,
Your info is excellent. Like I mentioned above, I am new to this and I am trying to figure out what I need to do to build a good motor or have it built.
The 331 will be using the Edelbrock upper and lower intake. I have to find out about the balancing deal, maybe I can have them install the balancer and flywheel and balance it for me before I pick it up.
I will keep you in mind as I research more and I have more ??

Can anyone tell me if this Edelbrock package will work for 331 but using the edelbrock upper/lower intake for FI.

Intake Manifold Included: Yes
Fuel Delivery Style: Carbureted
Intake Material: Aluminum
Intake Finish: Natural
Intake Style: Dual plane
Intake Manifold Model (descriptive): Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap
Carburetor Flange: Square bore
Timing Chain and Gears Included: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Gaskets Included: Yes
Cylinder Head Style: Assembled
Cylinder Head Material: Aluminum
Cylinder Head Finish: Natural
Combustion Chamber Volume (cc): 60
CNC Machined Combustion Chamber: No
Intake Runner Volume (cc): 170cc
Exhaust Runner Volume (cc): 60cc
CNC Machined Intake Runner: No
CNC Machined Exhaust Runner: No
Intake Port Location: Standard
Exhaust Port Shape: Rectangular
Exhaust Port Location: Standard
Intake Valves Included: Yes
Intake Valve Diameter (in): 1.900 in.
Exhaust Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valve Diameter (in): 1.600 in.
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.450 in.
Damper Spring Included: No
Number of Springs Per Valve: Single
Retainers Included: Yes
Retainer Material: Steel
Locks Included: Yes
Lock Style: 7 degree
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Valve Stem Seal Style: PC seal
Valve Stem Seal Material: Viton® rubber
Rocker Arms Included: No
Rocker Arm Studs Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Nuts Included: No
Rocker Arm Nut Thread Size: 3/8-24 in.
Guideplates Included: Yes
Guideplate Pushrod Size: 5/16 in.
Pushrods Included: No
Valve Covers Included: No
Accessory Bolt Holes Drilled: Yes
Valve Guides Included: Yes
Valve Guide Material: Manganese bronze
Valve Seats Machined: Yes
Valve Seat Machine Style: 3-angle
Valve Seat Material: Ductile iron
Steam Holes Drilled: No
Oiling Style: Through pushrod
Machined for O-Ring: No
Heat Crossover: No
Cylinder Head Bolts Included: Yes
Quantity: Sold as a kit.

Top End Engine Kit, Power Package, 302 CID, 367 HP, Incl. Intake/Heads/Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam


This is the biggest obstacle I have till now. The engine setup. I know more will come, but trying to get them out of the way one at a time.
 

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Former Roadster Owner
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1,861 Posts
There is noting listed above that won't work with a Fuel Injected intake set up. You'll need to be a little more careful with the camshaft selection. I'm not familiar with the Edelbrock cam that included their power packages. Make sure it will "play nice" with your computer controlled fuel injection set up. There are plenty of affordable cams out there that will work well with your set up. It quite possible also that the cam edelbrock provides works fine with EFI engines, just double check.

-dan
 

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FFCobra Fanatic
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12,975 Posts
What you have listed above is a carbed set up not efi. Personally if useing the Eld. heads move up to the rpm heads with the larger 2.02 intake since the larger 331 displacment will want more then the 302. This kit also states "flat tappet" cam. You block is a roller cam,flat tappet is not the way to go here.
The edl. parts are nice. Go with the larger rpm heads,the upper and lower efi manifolds,but keep in mind injectors and maf will need to be swaped out for larger. I would choose a different cam then what offered with the "kit". 331 is going to want more then the cam that comes with the package. And stay with the roller cam,not flat tappet cam.
 

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The Greek
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3,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok, thank you Hind Sight, you pretty much answered my question. That kit is NOT ideal for 331.
I will be looking for alternatives.
 

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Registered
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3,408 Posts
My thoughts for free.

If your connections with Edelbrock give you some flexibility, you may wish to persue a few things further.

For what it's worth, Edelbrock now markets hydraulic roller cams for the small block Fords and their performer RPM package.

Using one in a 331 would almost certainly not be optimal however. I suggest a custom grind from Ed Curtis on this forum instead. Simply do a search on his name and contact him after you have the rest of your combination sorted, which leads to the following.

Larger 2.02 valve version of the Performer RPM vs the smaller, I have not seen conclusive flow data that says it's worth it with the Performer RPM castings. Even the Edelbrock website will back this up. There's almost no difference.

The part number for the RPM heads with the 1.9 intake valves is 60229 and the 2.02's are 60259.

To save you some time searching, it's listed as 3 more cfm at .400 inches lift, 6cfm at both .500 and at .600. You won't be lifting them as high as .600. It's meaningless difference except the smaller valve head flows a bit better at lower lifts and will provide you with more piston to valve clearance. The slightly smaller valves are lighter too, which makes it easier for the springs to control them. Basically I see no advantage to running the 2.02 intake version.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/heads/pdf/flow_data.pdf

If you plan a street oriented EFI combo, I would personaly rather use the Performer RPM 1.90 valve heads.

Run these heads with the Performer RPM II EFI intake manifold and a 70mm throttle body, plus 30lb fuel injectors and a A9L EEC with at least a 75mm MAF housing appropriately calibrated to those injectors. You should make close to 400hp.
 

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The Greek
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3,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you Wurf,
I can get pretty much whatever I need from edlbrock at very good prices.
Your info is what I was looking for exactly.
My kit comes on 2/7/07 my b-day and I am up at almost 2am and I can't sleep. I hope to get this kind of help throughtout my build.
Thanx again.
 

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Cougar
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596 Posts
Mornin' Gents,
What would you think of using a set of Edelbrock's #61629 Vic Jr heads on Sam's port injected 331? It seems that these are the closest to the AFR185 in spec. The AFR website refers to a good many great magazine articles that show an advantage on this size FI engine.
My own plans are to use these heads with a Mass-flo system(Vic Jr manifold) and a Comp Cam XE274HR. Too much for a street motor? Thanks!
Peter
 

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Registered
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3,408 Posts
Well.....my opinion - I almost suggested the Vic Jr's in the above post, but I figured he would be running long runner EFI, not a carb, or carb converted EFI intake with Mass Flo.

I'd still stay around 185cc, which is what I last read the Performer RPM's actually measured at, not the 170 for which they are rated.

The Vic Jr's might work, but they're 210cc intake ports, and the motor might be a bit lazy at lower RPM's.

It really depends on the combo - compression, cam timing etc. Build it to make peak power at around 6800rpm and those Vic Jr's would probably work, but it'll probably be pretty snotty and rough when cruising around town.

If you don't have a connection to get super attractive prices on Edelbrock heads, you might consider the AFR instead, or Trick Flow twisted wedge, or Dart Pro1, or Canfield, or Brodix, or RHS, or ..........
 

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Cougar
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596 Posts
Yup Wurf, you're right, the Vic Jrs are 210cc.
I mislabled the head in my post, the part number I quoted is actually for the intended RPM 351C heads. The cold is obviously addling my brain, duh :rolleyes:
The RPM 351s are a slightly larger 190cc head with a 2.05 intake valve and reportedly can be used on a 302 block with stepped head bolt washers. Like the AFR 185s, this would seem an appropriate midway step on a street 331. What do y'all think?
Peter

[ February 08, 2007, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Cougar ]
 
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