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Junior Charter Member
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Discussion Starter #1
How many times have I seen this post over the last couple of years? ..... well now it's my turn. The eng won't start. Here's the skinny.

This is a 351W bored and stroked to 383ci. I have Canfield heads and a Spyder EFI setup. So I have 42# injectors with a matched Pro-M and a A9L computer running on a Ford FMS hotrod harness. I've checked and rechecked every connection to ensure it's getting the right signal.

I have checked the timing again and again, looks good, I've moved the dist. a few teeth back and forth to check if I'm off. I have also changed it 180* out on purpose. I have changed between the H.O. firing patern and the old school.

Right now the Eng will flood if I leave the fuel pump relay plugged in, So I have left it disconnected and just poured a little fuel in to try and start it. The Eng will backfire through the intake and once the fuel is just about used up it will try to kick over... it will speed up but not really enough to outrun the starter.

Any ideas?????? I'm getting really frustrated!

-wingnut13 :confused:

[ June 01, 2005, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: wingnut13 ]
 

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Senior Charter Member
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Have you hooked up a code reader and checked for trouble codes?

If the engine is flooding, maybe your fuel pressure is too high - what's it set at? Try backing down the pressure.

42lb injectors for a non-supercharged 383 sounds rather big. I've got 36lb injectors on my 408.

The computer expects the firing order to be 5.0L HO (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8), so any other firing order isn't going to work without some creative fuel injector plug swapping.

Pete
 

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Moderator Ad Nauseum
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Junior Charter Member
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Discussion Starter #4
This is all new stuff for the most part, Injectors are new.

I ran Holley 50#er's on my 306 with the twin turbo setup, that was on the street everyday. At idle it was a little rich but not bad. I knew of guys running 160# injectors on the street!

Fuel pressure is set at 38psi, stock for a 5.0 and a good place to start from on a motor.....

Keep the questions comming! -wingnut13
 

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FFCobra Captain
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I'll throw in a couple things to looks at:

1) You sure the computer is good?
2) On the mustang harness, the computer ground is over by the starter relay..is the computer grounded? I almost cut mine off because it looked like a master cylinder sensor wire to me.
3) You said " the Eng will flood if I leave the fuel pump relay plugged in, So I have left it disconnected and just poured a little fuel in to try and start it" Will an EFI motor start like this? I've heard it's a way to kick over a carb, but will EFI do the same thing?
 

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Flooring the pedal should cut the injectors off to clear flooding. You may be able to fool the TPS, rather than have the throttle open all the way if you don't want to risk revving the motor.

If you have spark and fuel, are the valves closing fully? Although usually you will get very impressive backfires this way.
 

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It's really hard to diagnose without being there. If you have your plug wires and dist correct, and you have spark/fuel you should have fire.

You're either not getting spark...or you're not getting fuel (or way too much fuel).

Flooded points to no spark (or stuck injectors). You sure your coil is wired correctly? Assuming you're running an MSD EFI Distributor, right? Have you checked for a hot spark @ the plug?

Nice summit plug wire chart, here: http://www.streetandstripmotorsports.com/charts_guides/charts_firing.htm

You didn't spray paint the injectors by chance did you?
 

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Nobody Special
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Originally posted by wingnut13:
Right now the Eng will flood if I leave the fuel pump relay plugged in, So I have left it disconnected and just poured a little fuel in to try and start it. The Eng will backfire through the intake and once the fuel is just about used up it will try to kick over... it will speed up but not really enough to outrun the starter.
The fuel pump should not continually run with the engine off.
The fuel injectors should not open unless the engine is running (or trying to start)

You don't have the wiring correct, or the computer is dead.
 

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I was having a problem with my car not starting when it was hot (you can read all about it if you search for a post called "Hot start problem"
It turned out to be a bad computer. The computer had fried and was reading 5.0 volts from the TPS all the time (causing the computer to go into flood clear mode) It smelled like it was flooding as the old fuel hit the hot pipes.

You might try swapping in another computer.
 

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Junior Charter Member
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Could your injectors be open all the time? Not sure about Ford style EFI, but doesn't the comp. send a 'ground' signal to the injectors to open them, with +12v to the other side of the injectors all the time? Anyway, is there a way to check the signals and voltage at the injectors? It might be a quicker way to tell if the wiring, or computer, is faulty.
 

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FFCobra Fanatic
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Everyone blame the electronics. Get back to basics before attempting to blame accessories. Double-check your enigne timing, etc.

After you're sure it's right, move on. Spark and fuel will fire. You have backfire through the intake which tells me it's more mechanical.

In addition to another response, the fuel pump doesn't run with the key on more than three seconds, unless the engine's running. Problem there.

Step back, think and take your time. I bet you find it easier this way.
 

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Premium Member
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If the fuel pump runs all the time with the key on , check (or change) your fuel pressure regulator....A bad regulator will allow fuel to continue to circulate.....Double check your fuel hose connections....I rebuilt my engine , and accidently reversed the hoses....This will not work. Finally , check/change your fuel pump relay...this can cause pump run on.
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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If the fuel pump runs all the time with the key on , check (or change) your fuel pressure regulator....
Why?? These two things have nothing to do with each other! There is no "pressure sensor" which turns off the fuel pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Whew.... Thanks for all the response guys!
O.K. so here we go....

The fuel pump will run for a couple of secons as soon as you turn the key on, as it should. It dosen't turn on again until you start to crank the motor. Everythings good there.

As far as the roller rockers go I loosened up the locknuts to hand tight to ensure I would get good compression. (As I have a habit of putting to much preload on them.)

I really can't tell if the computer is good or bad, at this point I wish my mustang was up and running to help with the troubleshooting. I do have my old Speed Density computer that would schedule the spark as required but it dosen't have the capability to schedule the correct fuel.

Spark? Oh yea.. and lots of it. I get a really nice blue kernel if I take the plugs out and check them. Just don't lick the spark plug.

I put a post up in the "wanted" section for a set of 19# stock injectors to use for troubleshooting. I have another Pro-M that is calibrated for 19lbs.

I really want to be on the road soon as I wanted to make open house... I guess well see! I'm off to the garage for awhile. Thanks again guys. -wingnut13
 

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Discussion Starter #17







Alright guys can you see what went wrong... or was never right? The timing chain sprocket does not engage the keyway, so the valves were working but not in time. Well now how do I fix this? I need a third keyway, these ae the halfmoon shape keys, not the stock ford part. Now stay tuned the next couple of days for an eng start! OBTW sorry for the cruddy pics! -wingnut13

[ June 01, 2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: wingnut13 ]
 

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Something does not look right there. You might have the wrong timing chain assembly for your year of block and camshaft. I am almost certain the crank gear at the bottom should be right up against the front main cap, not a half inch away from it like that.
 

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Senior Charter Member
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Who built the engine? And where did the timing gear set come from? I agree with Wurf, the position of both gears looks funny.

Video
 
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