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Discussion Starter #41
It's not possible for them to un-screws so I see no need for any type of Loctite.
Hi Ed. Is it me or is there no way those rod ends can unscrew from each other without a catastrophic failure? Like if a swaybar snaps and spins around like a tailrotor? :balloon:
Right guys. No possible way for the rod ends to unscrew short of something breaking. My thought process with the Loctite was to remove the very slight amount of play between the two pieces. Always amazed at some of the little things that get noticed and discussed. It's all good.
 

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Discussion Starter #42

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I'm going to do that too while its up on jack stands, instead of waiting until winter.
 

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Good feedback Rich. Thanks. This is my first time with sway bars, so definitely in learning mode here. I'm assuming you would disconnect them even for ride height adjustments, for the reasons you mention. They're easy enough to disconnect, either with the bolt to the sway bar itself or where they're attached on the end of the lower shock bolt. I'll re-think that red Loctite. It would be easy enough to loosen with a little heat. But maybe switch to blue, or just leave it off for now.



Yea, I've been following this issue and discussion. 255L/Hr pumps aren't new or leading edge. Obviously shouldn't be failing that. I'll be interested to see the conclusions are. Does have me re-thinking my feed and return lines. I was going to use 3/8 inch for feed and something smaller for return. May just go with 3/8 for both. My fuel tank connections are already set up for -6AN (3/8 inch) and so is the Aeromotive regulator I'm planning to use. Just spent a little while reading about fuel line resistance. No downside I can think of.
I've got 24,000 kilometers on my Coyote with the 255lph fuel pump in the tank. I used the fuel supply and return lines from the FFR complete kit. No issues yet. Didn't overthink or try to re-engineer. The system works fine and adequately supplies 55 psi fuel pressure to the fuel rails.
 

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Many have said that, Howard; so I'm thinking there may another issue, hopefully a bad ground. Having ensured ground, I'll plug away with the lighter pump and new lines anyway.

Thanks, and Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
IRS Assembly Completed

This is a pretty important update. As the title says, the IRS installation is completed. A big milestone. The last few days have been good for backordered parts delivery. Received the upper and lower control arms and other misc stuff last week. Received the CV axles yesterday. Very nice pieces from The Driveshaft Shop. And the last pieces of hardware today. So no more excuses. I have one single item left on my backorder list, and that’s the Wilwood brakes. Pretty major item, but I can proceed for now. My understanding is they’re in production, but I don’t have an ETA.

Before getting into the IRS, a couple of other bits of progress while I was waiting for parts. I worked on my dash some. I was able to sell the provided assembled dash. It was nice enough, but a street layout and I really want the competition layout. So I have a blank dash and the first thing was to copy the layout from my current Mk4 to the blank. I spent a long time laying that out a couple years ago, focusing on not just the competition layout but also sight lines, ergonomics, etc. After driving this season, there’s nothing I would change. I like it a lot. So I’m starting there. Still have some decisions to make, like oil temp in or out, what indicator lights, can I do (or even need) a fan override with the Coyote ECU, etc. So I’ll decide those things before finalizing the layout. I will be doing a glove box. But still looking at options for that and the covering material. Also started fabbing the dash braces I’ll use. This is similar to my first two builds. A small one on each end that will also contain down lights for the footwells. And a larger one in the center that will have 12V outlets, various switches, and stuff mounted on the top side. They’ll be riveted to the two inch tube at the front, and attached to the dash edge with nutserts (what else?) through the bottom. These three make the dash quite solid, but still leave it open enough for some access if needed. Note the one by the steering column is not in the final location. It will be at the end of the dash. I have to notch it around some things still.



The next thing I worked on was the radiator with cooling fan and shroud. In an earlier update I described getting the shroud ready. I sent it out for powder coat along with several other parts. They were able to match the silver/grey of the chassis very nicely. Just the other day we received the actual brands and codes for the Anniversary powder, so I’ll be checking into that before committing to all the aluminum panels. But for now, pretty good. I mounted the fan to the shroud, and then added the radiator. Then mounted in the chassis using the Breeze lower radiator mount. All quite straightforward. I mounted the radiator in the center of the opening. Did the same thing on my last build. The manual says 5/8 inch over toward the DS, but it doesn’t need to be IMO. This was discussed a bit in another thread the last few days. Won’t repeat it all here. Two small hints. While it’s likely OK, I think it’s a good idea to add a little cushion to the top mounting locations. I used some pieces of neoprene on my last build. That was OK. But this time used some tubing I had on hand. Just slightly thicker but not quite so hard as the neoprene. Slit the tubing and wrapped it around the front and bottom, held on with 3M weatherstrip adhesive. Then trimmed to fit. Turned out good and provides just a little “give” in the top mounting. The other thing to watch for is a slight interference between the radiator tank assembly and the mounting tube on the PS. You could go ahead and mount it that way, but the already pretty narrow mounting available on the radiator top would become even smaller because the radiator would be slightly lower on that side. I just undercut an angle on the mounting tube and it fits better I think. Did the same thing on my last build. You can see it in the close-up pic.




You can also see in these pictures I assembled and temporarily placed the hood hinges. More fill-in work. I'll either paint or PC them later. Just a couple words about those. I believe all the steel parts (along with the aluminum panels) are laser cut. Really nice clean and precise parts. But the steel ones especially are left with pretty sharp edges. Plus seems that every part has one or two little “nibs” where I’m assuming the laser starts and stops and holds the part from falling out of the sheet. But those things can be nasty and can lead to unplanned blood donations. (Ask me how I know). Do yourself a favor and spend a little time with a file and some emery cloth and clean up the parts during assembly. For the hood hinges, I didn’t use the wavy washers. First time I’ve seen those. The best way I’ve found to assemble the hood hinges using the shoulder bolts is with two 3/8 inch ID washers for each bolt. One under the head of the bolt, then the hinge pieces and bushing oriented properly, then another 3/8 inch ID washer. There should be just a little of the bolt shoulder remaining, and make sure the washer fits over that shoulder. Then add the nut and tighten to suit. Works perfect. I was able to find enough washers in my junk drawer to get the job done. You need to be selective to get the right thickness. Same for the trunk hinges and also the doors. Although I found the doors are assembled fine from the factory and I’m not doing anything to them. If you look really close in the pictures (and I know some of you do!) you’ll notice I don’t have the lock nuts on the hood hinges. Or radiator for that matter. I have a supply of 5/16 and 3/8 inch plain nuts (the most common sizes), and do a lot of the mock-up with those. I don’t use the actual lock nuts until final assembly. Easier plus reduces wear on the lock nuts so they can do their job.

One other update. As mentioned early in this thread and in another separate thread, I purchased a complete “zero miles take-off” 2015 Mustang IRS assembly, including not only the parts required for the build, but also the stock CV axles, upper and lower control arms, even the actual frame assembly. I was hoping to sell the leftover stuff and recover a little money. No luck so far. Had them on Craigslist for a couple weeks with zero responses. Hard to believe with Craiglist. No spam or anything. Just finished a 7 day no reserve eBay action for each. Had quite a few lookers and watchers, but only one sale. A pair of lower control arms for 99 cents. Good grief. What a waste. I’ll throw the stuff in my “not used” pile and see what happens I guess. One thing I did notice though. The CV axles I received yesterday from Factory Five, while shorter (and beefier) than the stock ones, have the same exact ends as the stock axles I have. Same FoMoCo laser markings and part numbers. So at the very least these could be spare parts if ever needed.

Related to this, I happen to run across that Ford Racing is now selling the 2015 Mustang center sections and knuckles/hubs separately. Four months ago I couldn’t find anything other than service parts or the zero mile take-offs I ended up using. Google M-4001-88355. That’s the Ford Racing part number for a 3.55 cast iron center section. List just over $1k. Available multiple places for a bit less. M-4001-88373T is the 3.73 cast iron Torsen center section. List over $2K. Expensive piece. The knuckles with hubs are Ford Racing part number M-5970-M. List price a little over $500. Availability on those looks to be a little limited. Interesting for both the center sections and knuckles the Ford Racing pages specifically say “Can be used in kit car custom builds.” So looks like the market might be catching up. Posting this because I know some reading this thread may be looking at a future 2015 Mustang IRS build.

Ok, so finally to the actual IRS assembly update. Last week I received my upper and lower control arms. I was still missing a few of the bolts, but was able to assemble everything into the chassis using some temporary hardware in a couple places. Everything works, and it turned out great. But a couple things I learned and offer as recommendations. I’ve tried it both ways, and have decided I like to grease these large poly bushing/sleeved joints BEFORE assembly. Once the joint fills with grease and squirts out around the little holes between the bushing and the sleeve, I’m now 100% sure they’re properly lubed. I smear that little extra grease on the bushing end, and it makes it way easier to assemble. For the most part, everything fits really tight. Some adjustment of the tabs might be necessary before anything will go in. I have a big Ford wrench (how many know what that is?) I got from my grandfather that works great for adjusting the mounting tabs. A big adjustable (Crescent) wrench also works. Just make sure the jaws are clean and tight before applying any pressure. Then you won't damage or mark the powder coat. I found the upper control arms especially tight to get in place. A dead blow hammer doesn’t hurt sometimes either. I found those tapered pins I made to install the center section, mentioned in an earlier update, work GREAT for helping to line up pieces as they were getting close. Drive the taper through, everything centers, and then the bolt almost pushes in. I’m saving those things. Also had to adjust the lengths slightly on a few of the supplied sleeves. All pretty normal stuff. I followed the assembly sequence exactly as described in the instructions, and torqued when they said to. The CV axles also went in just the way the instructions said. It took a little bit of a bump with the dead blow to get the inner retaining ring to click into place. Today I received the last pieces of hardware, so installed those and final torqued and marked everything. The only thing remaining is the axle nut. I ran it down with my puny air impact wrench. But I won’t be able to get the final tightness until I have some brakes or the drivetrain installed to hold it. I did make one very small change. When I installed the rear sway bar, the two threaded together rod ends were at a pretty sharp angle vs. straight up and down when the suspension was level. So I trimmed the one longer bushing by 1/8 inch, and added another 1/8 spacer on the other side. Much better. It’s not very much. Maybe just the tolerance of the bends in the sway bar.

I’ve had a couple questions about the two lower cross-axis joints in the Mustang knuckles. They are not replaced, but used as is. The main joint (the rear one) fully pivots and turns. Like a Heim joint. It appears to be a heavy duty and well made piece. The toe arm joint (the front one) is some type of elastomer, and just flexes once bolted down. It’s pretty large and flexible. The instructions clearly state to torque the bolt down with the suspension in the level position. Makes sense. You can feel some resistance from the joint when moving the suspension up and down. The top joint is the bolted in large rod end showing in the pictures, which comes with the kit. Hope this all makes sense. I’m learning about this stuff for the first time.

So here are some pics. Really not much else to say. I think it turned out great and looks really good. Looks an awful lot like what we saw at Factory Five during the open house. But makes a difference when it’s really your car. Everything turns nice and smooth. Just need to remember to add fluid at some point.

Passenger side from rear. Note in all the pictures the suspension is drooping, as it would with the chassis on the lift. The final position is the upper control arm and CV axles level, and the lower control arm pointed slightly down. Note also I haven’t done anything with alignment yet.


Passenger side from front. Note the large adjuster for camber. The toe adjustment is a little harder to see on the inner part of the lowest arm. Note none of these have to be disassembled for adjustment. Just loosen the jam nuts and adjust in place.


Driver’s side from rear. Looks kind of like the passenger side.


Entire IRS from back.


Looking up.


Closer look at the passenger side from the bottom. Can see the toe arm adjustment a little better here.


Well that’s it. Pretty cool. Tomorrow I’m going to be finalizing my Coyote engine order. That’s next up.
 

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Edward, I'm at the same point with my dash. Could you post up a closer picture of your layout with some basic dimensions? Nice write up.
I'm thinking of Alex's glove box again, or build my own if I can find the right hinges, felt instead of foam backing and the Alsport 4 way stretch vinyl for covering.
 

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That looks really great except for the swaybar mounting. Have to wonder about that.
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
That looks really great except for the swaybar mounting. Have to wonder about that.
I assume you mean how narrow the attachments are on the chassis? Yea, I wonder about that too. Already had that discussion with someone else. It's how the prototype was set up and tested. Right out of the original press release from FF. Factory Five Launches 2015 Independent Rear Suspension Option. Something different would present some interesting mounting challenges. Not going to even think about it.
 

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I assume you mean how narrow the attachments are on the chassis? Yea, I wonder about that too. Already had that discussion with someone else. It's how the prototype was set up and tested. Right out of the original press release from FF. (Factory Five Launches 2015 Independent Rear Suspension Option). Something different would present some interesting mounting challenges. Not going to even think about it.
Keep in mind, this is a 2300# car, not 4000#. I don't see this as any kind of issue.
Love your write ups. Wish I could talk a local club member into upgrading to a new car :evil: would love to help work on it and inspect all the new goodies.
 

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Discussion Starter #52 (Edited)
Edward, I'm at the same point with my dash. Could you post up a closer picture of your layout with some basic dimensions? Nice write up. I'm thinking of Alex's glove box again, or build my own if I can find the right hinges, felt instead of foam backing and the Alsport 4 way stretch vinyl for covering.
I've been asked about this before, so took a few minutes this morning to collect the dimensions. All horizontal (H) measurements are from the steering column center line in inches. All vertical (V) measurements are from the uncovered dash bottom in inches.

Oil PSI: 3.71 H, 3.64 V
Water temp: 1.18 H, 5 V
Tach: 4.86 H, 4.20 V
Fog light switch: 3.57 H, 1 V
Headlight switch: 4.86 H, 1 V
Ignition switch: 8.5 H, 1 V
Horn button: 8.5 H, 3 V
Speedometer: 12.25 H, 3 V
Volts: 9.1875 H, 6.625 V
Oil temp: 12.0375 H, 6.625 V
Fuel: 14.8875 H, 6.625 V
Clock: 17.74 H, 6.625 V
Edge of glove box opening: 21 H
Indicator lights: As desired, centered between Oil PSI and Water temp
Toggle switches: As desired, right of speedo, 3 V
Seat heaters (!): Centered under toggles, 1 V

This is a picture of the completed dash from my last build, and per the above dimensions. As stated, plan to duplicate the basic layout in this build. One of the big differences between this and a pure competition layout is the tach is moved to the left some. In this location, it's visible (for me anyway) behind the steering wheel. The location of the horn button is on purpose as well. It's pretty much right under your fingers from the steering wheel. Not shown is the Russ Thompson turn signal assembly (so no toggle on the dash for that) and I used the momentary switch on the stalk for flash to pass and high beams. The LED indicators are high beam (blue), L and R turn signal (green) and fan running (orange). The toggle switches are (L-R) fan override, wipers, and hazards. Under the edge of the dash, not shown, is the knob for the instrument lighting dimmer near the headlight switch, and a momentary pushbutton under the speedo for trip reset, calibration, etc. I put the momentary pushbutton for the clock inside the glovebox. I too am considering Alex's setup again, but would like a slightly different hinge arrangement. Thinking about maybe a leather covering and making my own glove box with a piano hinge door, similar to the originals. We'll see. Hope this helps!

 

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Discussion Starter #53
Keep in mind, this is a 2300# car, not 4000#. I don't see this as any kind of issue.
Love your right ups. Wish I could talk a local club member into upgrading to a new car :evil: would love to help work on it and inspect all the new goodies.
Thanks Rich. I appreciate your compliment very much, and also your comments about the sway bar. I have zero experience with these, so I'm going with what FF designed and not looking back.
 

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When you get into mating the Coyote wiring harness with the FFR supplied chassis and dash bundles, the instructions give you details on a number of ways of controlling the cooling fan. As well as an option for a manual on/off switch on the dash.
I decided to not bother with the manual switch and wired my system so the Coyote ECM controlled the cooling fan on/off. This has worked out well. The ECM has never forgot the switch on the fan, where I'm sure if was left up to me I would have experienced a few overheats. I'd rather focus on other things than controlling fan on/off.
Do you find the yellow "fan on" indicator useful? I can generally tell when my fan comes on as it's a noisy brute.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
When you get into mating the Coyote wiring harness with the FFR supplied chassis and dash bundles, the instructions give you details on a number of ways of controlling the cooling fan. As well as an option for a manual on/off switch on the dash. I decided to not bother with the manual switch and wired my system so the Coyote ECM controlled the cooling fan on/off. This has worked out well. The ECM has never forgot the switch on the fan, where I'm sure if was left up to me I would have experienced a few overheats. I'd rather focus on other things than controlling fan on/off. Do you find the yellow "fan on" indicator useful? I can generally tell when my fan comes on as it's a noisy brute.
My builds so far have used the built-in fan circuit in the Ron Francis harness controlled by a thermostatic switch on the engine. So the fan operation is automatic. The switch is just a manual override in case you want to switch it on even though the automatic circuit isn't calling for it. To be honest, I've never found it necessary to use. So I have no problem leaving it off the Coyote build. I wouldn't want a manual only one either. The fan running indicator light is nice, and I probably will duplicate that. Just two leads across the fan motor will light it. No way could I hear the cooling fan on my previous builds if the engine was running.
 

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You will be surprised at the sound level of the Coyote at idle through the Gas-N sidepipes. Although it's comfortable, it doesn't give bystanders the impression you have close to 500 ponies waiting to jump from the starting gate. Almost like a sleeper.

BTY, I'm terribly envious of this 20th Anniversary model. I must set myself up for the Silver Anniversary model in 4 years. Screw the exchange rate.
 

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Thanks - very helpful. Someone posted some time ago a hinge from McMaster Carr that was called a 'weldable concealed hinge' #11205A35. Take a look, I think I'll try this one for a home made glove box door.
 

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I assume you mean how narrow the attachments are on the chassis? Yea, I wonder about that too. Already had that discussion with someone else. It's how the prototype was set up and tested. Right out of the original press release from FF. Factory Five Launches 2015 Independent Rear Suspension Option. Something different would present some interesting mounting challenges. Not going to even think about it.
Yep, this is one of those things that could be a lot better in theory. But the reality of available mounting spots means it is what it is. I wouldn't think about changing it either.
 

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Discussion Starter #60 (Edited)
Coyote in the House

I’ve now received my Coyote engine, so lots to share there. But first a bit of unfinished business on the IRS. I know there are many options, but I chose to fill with the exact Ford recommended gear lube and friction modifier. Didn’t see the Motorcraft products on the shelf at any of my local parts stores, so stopped at the local Ford dealer. He said they don’t normally stock the 75W-85 weight. I mentioned that was specified by Ford for the 2015 Mustang IRS, and he responded they haven’t replaced the gear lube in too many of those yet. OK I guess… Anyway, he ordered what I needed. At the same time, I ordered the Mustang vent tube for the center section. How to handle the vent isn’t mentioned anywhere in the FF instructions. The Mustang piece is maybe a little too long, but has the right size right angle connecter to plug onto the center section, and then a plastic vent at the other end, similar to the metal vent used on the 8.8 solid axle I’m familiar with. Once the stuff arrived, I put the first quart of gear lube in, then the 3+ ounces of friction modifier, and then topped off ending up using about 3.3 pints as specified. Once again I was reminded how much that friction modifier stinks! (My wife noticed very quickly as well.) Took about a day for the garage to air out.

These are the products recommended by Ford. Easy enough to find in Mustang specs. Also listed at the end of the FF IRS instructions.


This is the Ford part number for the Mustang vent tube assembly. It’s only $10-12.


Just mocking up how it might be used, this is plugged onto the center section and routed over to the PS.


I’m thinking of tie-wrapping it to the fuel tank vent tube that will come up in this same area in the wheel well. That’s where the Mustang routes it. Would be easy to shorten.


OK, now to the Coyote adventure. Some months ago when I planned and budgeted this build, using FF’s Coyote instructions, other build threads, etc. I planned all the parts necessary, including of course the engine itself. I had several sources in mind to buy it from, mainly shopping price to be honest. When I was ready to click the button to purchase last week, the first place I went said “Ford Coyote M-6007-M50 no longer available, replaced with M-6007-M50A.” Went to a number of sites and found the same message, although some with the M-6007-M50 still available in limited quantities. Turned out what I was seeing, and I guess I must be living under a rock, is that Ford made some pretty significant changes starting in 2015, and M-6007-M50A is the 2015-2016 Coyote motor. I immediately noted it has more HP and torque, so no complaints there. Then I found they have released a brand new control pack M-6017-504V for the 2015-2016 engine, which is mandatory. The 2011-2014 engine won’t work with the new control pack and the 2015-2016 won’t work the old control pack.

So, after all said and done, I found a great price for the 2015-2016 engine, control pack, engine covers, alternator and starter package, including free lift gate home delivery, and placed my order last Thursday. After a little back and forth discussion, received notice that it shipped on Friday. Monday it was at the freight company, and Tuesday morning it was in my garage. Now that’s service! Turns out (and I didn’t know any of this) Coyotes are made in Ford’s Essex engine plant, which is right across the river from me in Windsor, Canada. Goes from there to the Ford Racing distribution center in Livonia, MI, also pretty close to me. So it never had very far to go. BTW, the place I bought the engine is not a forum vendor, but I recommend them. They were very interested in my project, patiently made sure I had exactly what I needed, and asked me to send a picture when it’s done. Cool! PM me if you want more details.

Just a few words about the 2015-2016 Coyote engine. I am far from a Coyote expert. I’m learning as I go here. It’s rated at 430 HP and just over 400 torque. In the Roadster with the revised intake and straight tube headers, should get a good bump from those numbers. I think it will be enough. Some of the changes to the 2015-2016 engine are bigger heads and valves. Apparently similar to the Boss heads but in cast form. A revised crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, and a couple internal changes to the block. A major addition is charge motion control valves (CMCV) added to the intake manifold. This was something used before on 3V mod motors, as I understand, and one of the first performance modifications was to remove them. Ford claims these were done right on the Coyote, and get totally out of the way when open. They are supposed to provide better low-end torque without affecting high rpm power. I understand this also allowed some changes in how the variable cam timing works. All interesting stuff (I guess) but I think it’s cool my anniversary edition with the latest 2015 Mustang IRS now will also have the latest Mustang powerplant. The flip side is what might be the implications of the change as I go down a path not travelled yet for these builds (that I know of). I’ll detail what I’ve found out so far. Mostly OK (I think…).

The engine arrived crated and boxed as many have seen. First time for me seeing a Coyote outside of an engine compartment. Interesting. And HUGE.



Right off the bat, noticed they added an oil cooler to the oil filter location. After checking with some other builders, confirmed there’s no way this will fit. Good news is that it was easily removed. It’s just sitting on top of the normal oil filter location with an extended adapter hold it in place. Side note: It’s a $300+ dollar part! I’m taking a run at eBay to see if the Mustang crowd will take it off my hands.


Next order of business was to get it out of the crate and up onto the engine stand. But before I did I quickly checked the fitment of my just received Quicktime bell housing. Oops! Ordered the wrong one. Good grief. Ordered RM-6060 instead of RM-6080. I amaze myself sometimes, and not in a good way. Exchange underway. I used the side motor mount bolt locations with chains and lots of towels and rags over the engine to hook it up and onto the engine stand. Had to get some metric bolts for the back of the block long enough for the stand, so yet another visit to my friends at Ace. But it mounted up OK. Just barely fit around the flywheel. It comes filled with oil, so drained that out. I didn’t have any clean containers, so never really thought to save the oil. I should have! I didn’t know it was 8 quarts and that it was synthetic. Put some bucks into the old oil recycle there. Oh well. Yet another lesson learned. I installed the alternator using the supplied Ford Racing kit. Very easy except the one idler wheel they provide but don't show in the instructions. Guessed it needed to replace the one already on the engine, and turns out that was right. Then turned it over and took the stock pan and pickup off and replaced with the Moroso pieces.



I would have loved to lift off that factory gasket/windage tray and peak into the innards there a little. But it was stuck in place with sealant, and I chose not to disturb it. I could see the 4-bolt mains, with the front one pretty visible. Actually I guess 6-bolt if you include the ones through the side of the block. All five are just like this. Pretty stout engine there.


After checking the pickup to pan distance using the clay method (actually plumber’s putty…) and finding it just over 3/8 inch (good) I installed the Moroso pan. Also added the engine mounts, just finger tight.


 
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