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Discussion Starter #82
Paul do you think the side of that engine cover would interfere with the triple reservoir in a Roadster, require trimming?
Yes it would definitely interfere. Worse than that. Based on my measurements, wouldn't even fit into a Roadster hood opening. The cover is 31 inches wide. That's an inch or so wider than the hood opening near the front of the Coyote.
 

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Discussion Starter #83 (Edited)
Gen 3 Coyote News

Well, big news today. After crawling all over the Gen 3 Coyote at Detroit Autorama on Saturday, measuring and studying as best I could, looking at build pictures, etc. came up with a definite maybe that it would fit into the Gen 3 Coupe. To finally try to nail this down, asked Mike Everson for more pictures of his Gen 3 Coupe build with the Coyote already installed. Also sent a note to Jesper at Factory Five to see if they've done any CAD models with the Gen 3 Coyote in the Gen 3 Coupe. I'm two for two with responses. Rather than pictures, Mike and I talked through the possible concern, how it compared to his build, available space, etc. The conclusion was the Gen 3 Coyote should fit. Thanks Mike! Literally while I was talking to Mike, received an email from Jesper also confirming it would fit, and these two awesome CAD renderings. He said it was OK to post them. Thanks Jesper! I added an arrow to the second pic where there was interference concern. Clearly looks OK.

So, the ball is back in Ford's court. Let's get this thing released. Unless availability goes completely south, going to try to make the build happen with this engine.


 

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well, big news today. After crawling all over the gen 3 coyote at detroit autorama on saturday, measuring and studying as best i could, looking at build pictures, etc. Came up with a definite maybe that it would fit into the gen 3 coupe. To finally try to nail this down, asked mike everson for more pictures of his gen 3 coupe build with the coyote already installed. Also sent a note to jesper at factory five to see if they've done any cad models with the gen 3 coyote in the gen 3 coupe. I'm two for two with responses. Rather than pictures, mike and i talked through the possible concern, how it compared to his build, available space, etc. The conclusion was the gen 3 coyote should fit. Thanks mike! Literally while i was talking to mike, received an email from jesper also confirming it would fit, and these two awesome cad renderings. He said it was ok to post them. Thanks jesper! I added an arrow to the second pic where there was interference concern. Clearly looks ok.

So, the ball is back in ford's court. Let's get this thing released. Unless availability goes completely south, going to try to make the build happen with this engine.


great news paul!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #85 (Edited)
A/C – Heat Installation Underway Plus

Relatively minor updates today. Yesterday I finished installation of the A/C – Heat unit in the PS footbox. Needed a couple extra arms to hold it in place while marking the attachment locations. I used a jackstand with a stack of towels for my assistant. First time I’ve used one of those on the inside of a build. The evaporator unit has four designed attachment points with inserts into the case. But for this installation, only one can be used. The FF instructions show using self-tapping screws into the top of the plastic case for two other attachments. My belt and suspenders mindset said change those to two 10-32 machine screws with a washer and locknut inside. Both nuts were accessible through the air outlets. One easy, the other a little harder. But done and solid. I put 10-32 nutserts into the chassis at the attachment points rather than the provided self-tappers. Again, just my thing. I had a suggestion to put the unit in straight versus angled as shown in the instructions. But after mocking it up, didn’t see how that was possible. To get it as high and far back as possible, plus making all the connections accessible, looks to me like it can only go this way. But it’s OK IMO.

The instructions (available on Factory Five’s website) first steps show cutting an access area into the PS footbox. Not a big deal, but I wasn’t looking forward to that necessarily or making a cover. I was pleasantly surprised to find my sheetmetal already had the access cut and the cover made held in place with the usual shipping screws. Just hadn’t noticed that before. Maybe a running change. I didn't order the A/C - Heat option at the same time as my kit. I guess they're now putting the access on all the kits. Nice.

Couple pics of the installed unit. From the cockpit.


Looking down into the footbox.


I’m not going to do anything else with this for now. Need a lot more other assembly to be finished and engine installed before running hoses, wiring, etc. I mentioned before this is a pretty simple setup with two outlets on the inside unit. One going to a pair of dash outlets. The other to the two defroster outlets. I am planning to change that up a little. Instead of pointing the two outside outlets down, I’m going to put them on the face of the dash. Then I’m going to add two additional outlets in the center of the dash. I’ll use Y-connections and add them to the defroster hose. That will add more air directly to the occupants versus having half going against the windshield. If more defroster air is needed, just close one or both of the center dash outlets. Not real high tech, but I think a little more user friendly.

Couple other things I worked on. Since I have a hydraulic clutch, won’t use the clutch cable exit in the DS footbox. So I’m going to use that for the reservoir hoses, which works out well since I’m planning to put the reservoirs in front of the DS footbox. The outlets on the Tilton triple reservoir I’m using are 5/16-inch barb, and the inlets on the Wilwood MC’s are 1/4-inch barb. Could use a reducer, but that’s just more connections. So today I tried fitting the supplied Wilwood 1/4-inch reservoir hose onto the Tilton piece. Took some heat, liquid soap, and healthy persuasion times three. But they’re on and I think it’s going to work fine. I’ll add some clamps and they’ll be good to go. Then made a small aluminum plate with holes for the three hoses with grommets and riveted onto the DS footbox front piece. I’ll have to trim the grommets a little to co-exist in this small area, but this should work. Don’t have the grommets yet. Also haven't mounted the triple reservoir yet. I want to set the tip-up nose in place and confirm the available height. I suspect I have plenty, but don't want to mess it up. While I had the footbox front piece out, also added some clearance for the front brake line that exits below the top frame tube. Then spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how that piece goes back in. It's a bit of a puzzle. :p


Finished up the rear harness. I installed the pigtails shown previously for the backup lights and reverse lockout solenoid, tested, and then wrapped everything up. Then installed into the chassis. With the fuel and brake lines on the DS of the transmission tunnel, installed it on the PS. Crossed over to the dash area on a diagonal frame piece. Added a hole to the DS sheet metal for it to come through. The same location as the rear brake line leaving the footbox. I’m planning the hydraulic line for the clutch will go through this same spot. I'll add some edge protector on the sheet metal after powder coat.


I’ve finished laying out the trunk storage box and was planning to start working on that today. I was planning to order some aluminum sheet from Aircraft Spruce like I’ve done before. But I was told about a metal supplier, Alro, that has a retail store about 25 minutes away. By all accounts it’s a great source. So I'm going to check it out. But we managed to get another bunch of snow today, so I didn’t go anywhere. Haven’t even cleaned the driveway off yet. Being retired has its privileges. Hopefully will make it out tomorrow and get started on that. Waiting for the call that my first batch of powder coat parts is done. Then will have some more parts to install.
 

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I mentioned before this is a pretty simple setup with two outlets on the inside unit. One going to a pair of dash outlets. The other to the two defroster outlets. I am planning to change that up a little. Instead of pointing the two outside outlets down, I’m going to put them on the face of the dash. Then I’m going to add two additional outlets in the center of the dash. I’ll use Y-connections and add them to the defroster hose. That will add more air directly to the occupants versus having half going against the windshield. If more defroster air is needed, just close one or both of the center dash outlets. Not real high tech, but I think a little more user friendly.
Love this idea - looking forward to seeing what you do, especially the extra vents in the center dash!
 

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Im curious about the defroster because I have the same issue of not having a dedicated defroster circuit that can be turned on/off. I was going to just put a normal ball vent on the dash but have a feeling that even closed, the leaking AC air will cause condensation on the windshield all the time. (im in FL)
Any thoughts on that? Anyone have that setup in a hot climate coupe?
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Im curious about the defroster because I have the same issue of not having a dedicated defroster circuit that can be turned on/off. I was going to just put a normal ball vent on the dash but have a feeling that even closed, the leaking AC air will cause condensation on the windshield all the time. (im in FL)
Any thoughts on that? Anyone have that setup in a hot climate coupe?
I don't know. Since the A/C circuit dehumidifies the air going through it to some extent, I'm not expecting (hoping...) it's a problem. But our air here in MI, while humid sometimes, is nothing like FL. Another aspect, perhaps, is that this system isn't using outside air. It's drawing air out of the footwell and by definition is always in recirculating mode. I don't consider it a problem or worth pursuing because the Coupe is hardly airtight as it is. But perhaps that would make a difference as well? Maybe someone else has actual experience with this.
 

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I don't know. Since the A/C circuit dehumidifies the air going through it to some extent, I'm not expecting (hoping...) it's a problem. But our air here in MI, while humid sometimes, is nothing like FL. Another aspect, perhaps, is that this system isn't using outside air. It's drawing air out of the footwell and by definition is always in recirculating mode. I don't consider it a problem or worth pursuing because the Coupe is hardly airtight as it is. But perhaps that would make a difference as well? Maybe someone else has actual experience with this.
Running defrost in recirculating mode often results in windshield fogging. Had to educate lots of customers on this in one of my prior lives in the dealership ;)

Jeff
 

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I'm assuming that a coupe caught in a rainstorm is almost undriveable without defroster/defogger and wiper system, and that an AC vent blasting on the WS would clear that up.
The issue Im talking about is the other 99% of the time would the leaking A/C air from the defroster vent cause that annoying water condensation on the outside of the windshield that would then streak up all the time? Anyhow, maybe that's a topic for a seperate post lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Running defrost in recirculating mode often results in windshield fogging. Had to educate lots of customers on this in one of my prior lives in the dealership ;)

Jeff
I'm assuming that a coupe caught in a rainstorm is almost undriveable without defroster/defogger and wiper system, and that an AC vent blasting on the WS would clear that up.
The issue Im talking about is the other 99% of the time would the leaking A/C air from the defroster vent cause that annoying water condensation on the outside of the windshield that would then streak up all the time? Anyhow, maybe that's a topic for a seperate post lol.
We'll see what happens. I'm not changing anything any further with the A/C - Heat system in the Coupe build. Even though it has a top and more creature comforts than the Roadster (sort of) it's still at the end of the day for me a fair weather car that will be driven in relatively mild weather and not intentionally in the rain. Not exactly the same regimen a DD sees. That plus the not so air tight interior I mentioned earlier. If it's really an issue once I get it on the road (which I'm guessing it won't be, maybe optimistically) wouldn't be that hard to add some kind of blast gate to the defroster circuit. Back to the build...
 

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FWIW, I've been in several rain storms in my roadster with the soft top on and no side windows. The only method of defogging the inside of the windshield quickly was the AC. Switching from AC to heater takes some time for the heater core to warm up and overcome the cold AC core. The AC dehumidifies the air while the heater delivers warm moist air. The heater may do the job given time but while driving down the road seconds count. Switching back to AC removed the fog quickly. Even though the AC/heater is in constant recirculation mode with the intake inside the car, there is a copious amount of air being exchanged inside to outside.

Also, I've never experienced the AC causing condensation on the windshield but perhaps Texas doesn't have the 100% humidity found in Florida.
 

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Gen 3 Coyote has sprayed on cylinder liners?

I happened upon a Youtube video of some Ford engineers discussing the 2018 Mustang and I think they said it has sprayed or sputtered on cylinder liners to gain a very small increase in the bore and decrease engine weight.
So my question is when has that ever ended well? If that is true and I was in the market for a Coyote (and I am not) I think I would go with the Gen2 and the steel liners.

Comments?
 

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Discussion Starter #94
I happened upon a Youtube video of some Ford engineers discussing the 2018 Mustang and I think they said it has sprayed or sputtered on cylinder liners to gain a very small increase in the bore and decrease engine weight.
So my question is when has that ever ended well? If that is true and I was in the market for a Coyote (and I am not) I think I would go with the Gen2 and the steel liners.

Comments?
Hey Mark. I hear you. Sounds a little like Chevy Vega days again, right? Aluminum block without a steel liner. (I was one of their victims. Boy that was a while ago...). But what Ford is doing with the Gen 3 Coyote isn't new and is apparently well proven. It's called the plasma transfer wire arc process. For Ford, they've been using it in the GT500 engine since 2011. It's also used in the latest GT350 Voodoo engine. Now taking it from those lower quantity but high performance engines to the masses with the base Coyote starting with the Gen 3. I'm reading test cases of 250,000 miles and still good. It's also used in the Nissan GT-R and other industries such as aerospace gas turbines. Looks like solid technology. I'm OK with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #96
Oh please, not like the Vega! I was in the dealerships when those were new

:surprise:

Jeff
It's not remotely the same. Hopefully you read my whole post. But that was the first thing I thought of when I read the Gen 3 release info. Mark kind of reminded me of it again. :001_rolleyes:
 

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It's not remotely the same. Hopefully you read my whole post. But that was the first thing I thought of when I read the Gen 3 release info. Mark kind of reminded me of it again. :001_rolleyes:
Yeah, I read your post Paul, and like you the Vega debacle thought crossed my mind upon first hearing of the process until learning more ;)

As an aside I can remember Vega blocks stacked up outside the service department like ricks of firewood!

Jeff
 

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So it is not Nikasil or it is a better process?

From a common Jaguar AJ V8 engine problems list:

AJ-V8
The AJ-V8 was designed to use Nikasil-coated cylinders rather than the more-common iron cylinder liners. However, like the BMW M60, high-sulphur fuel reacted with the Nikasil liners and caused engine failures. Jaguar replaced affected engines, and has used conventional cast-iron linings ever since.

Longevity is probably not a real issue in these cars as very few are even close to daily drivers. (exc. Ralph Button :) )
 

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Discussion Starter #99 (Edited)
From a common Jaguar AJ V8 engine problems list:

AJ-V8
The AJ-V8 was designed to use Nikasil-coated cylinders rather than the more-common iron cylinder liners. However, like the BMW M60, high-sulphur fuel reacted with the Nikasil liners and caused engine failures. Jaguar replaced affected engines, and has used conventional cast-iron linings ever since.

Longevity is probably not a real issue in these cars as very few are even close to daily drivers. (exc. Ralph Button :) )
No, it's not Nikasil. Here's an interesting article on the process. Even addresses how it's different than the Jaguar event. https://jalopnik.com/5467038/the-ford-engine-technology-good-enough-for-the-nissan-gt-r.

But probably safe to say Mark isn't buying it. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #100 (Edited)
Trunk Box Fabrication

Last week I made it to the Alro Metals Outlet not too far from me, as mentioned in my last update. Mission was to get some sheet aluminum for the trunk box I’m adding plus a couple other possible things I’ll be fabricating. It’s a pretty impressive place with a lot to choose from, including a whole bunch of reasonably priced remnants of every shape, size and metal. Unfortunately, they had almost no 6061 .040 sheet aluminum remnants. They offered to cut a piece from a full sheet, but it was 50% more than buying it on-line even with the added shipping. But I looked around and found some 5052. A couple pieces of .040 and a pretty large piece of .063 for a grand total of $31.69. Easily twice as much as needed for the trunk enclosure, so plenty left for other projects. I was planning to make the enclosure out of all .040. But the slightly thicker material on the floor and folding lid on the top is probably a good thing. The guy said I would like how 5052 bends, and in my very basic Harbor Freight brake, he was right. I could definitely tell it’s a little softer than 6061. Almost “gummy” to cut. I'm not going to use it for anything structural (even though it would probably be OK) but it’s fine for this use and the price was certainly right.

This is the box I came up with. Pretty straightforward. Cut, bend, rivet. Repeat until done. It’s 23 inches long, 16 inches wide, and 5-1/2 inches deep, not including the mounting flange around the edges. That’s a couple inches wider than the similar mod installed in #8674. Fits easily into the available space above the tank in the Coupe, and the lid swings without hitting anything.



Since this area is exposed under the rear glass hatch, decided to also make a lid. Borrowed liberally from the pictures on the Dark Water Customs site. I hinged it so that it’s split in the middle. Back half can be opened by itself, or the whole thing flipped over. I’ll have a piece of edged carpet over the lids, attached only to the rear section. Still need to figure out some kind of pull or handle. The stainless piano hinges are from McMaster.



Once it’s time to install, will need to do some final trimming on the box to fit around the chassis tubes in the area and also cut a hole in the existing floor. Some relocate the chassis tubes in the Roadsters with this mod. I’ve done the mod twice on Roadsters and didn’t. They appear to be even more structural on the Gen 3 Coupe, so that isn’t anything I’m remotely considering. I’ve found using the storage area with the cross braces isn’t a big deal. Probably some will notice I didn’t put the fuel gauge sender access panel in the new box. I also won’t have one in the pump area. I don’t find dropping the tank to be a big deal, especially with a lift, so I prefer not to mess around with the access panels. In multiple seasons, have only had to drop the tank once and that was when I upgraded the pump and hanger in #8674. Nothing had actually failed. Probably shouldn’t say that out loud…

Received a few more pieces off my shopping list last week. Picked up the Tilton 60-6104 hydraulic throwout bearing I’m going to use instead of the more traditional TOB and clutch arm setup. Actually they call it a Hydraulic Release Bearing (HRB). Oh good. Another acronym. It appears to be an extremely high quality piece. I’m very impressed. Hope it works as good as it looks. Checked what I could and it appears that it will fit OK. Also picked up a Moroso 63806 coolant expansion tank. Like I did with #8674, planning to plumb the cooling system the same as a Mustang versus using a T-filler and overflow tank. Ford said the plumbing is unchanged on the Gen 3 Coyote, and the Moroso tank is also now advertised for the 2018 Mustang. So should be good to go. I’m not sure where it will be mounted just yet. I’m thinking somewhere in this area. But won’t know until the real engine, intake, etc. is installed. It looks like the intake would still fit behind it, but not sure yet. Will need to figure out some mounting brackets.


Also received the Breeze #35317 Locking Aero Fuel Cap. Another high quality part. I've used this cap on each of my builds and like it a lot. With a little bit of trimming, fits perfectly into the LeMans cap. Seals things up and provides a solid lock. I’ve spent quite a bit of time over the last couple days planning what I want to do with the instrument panel. Starting to get a little more focused I think. Trying to come up with the right layout, switches, etc. that looks decent and belongs together. I’ll have something to share eventually.

This Saturday we’re having a club event (Great Lakes Cobra Club) here at our house. Couple years ago when #8674 was going together, invited everyone over for coffee, donuts, and sharing about the build. It was a lot of fun and had a good turnout. So we’re doing the same with the Coupe build. Looking forward to it. Once that’s done, the back half of the body is coming off and I’ll dig into drilling and fitting aluminum panels. It’s time.
 
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