Factory Five Racing Forum banner

61 - 80 of 331 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,508 Posts
Paul,

I hear you, it’s one of the biggest choices on the car I think. I’m waiting for my painter to call with an opening, and then she’ll go in finally!
I’m currently spray painting my model coupe in different schemes to see what I think. Might still go with my original design in my avatar, but I’ve cooked up another one that I’m going to spray this weekend.

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #62
I Love Do-Overs, Gen 3 Coyote News

Couple of things since my last update. When I posted about the installation of the Eibach 1-inch rear wheel spacers last week, which involved shortening the existing wheel studs, I had only completed the driver side. Then took the weekend off. First thing Monday went after the passenger side. I still had my calipers set for the amount to trim off the ends of the wheel studs. Checked one of the pieces cut from the other side just to be sure. Looked good. Marked where to cut them, zipped off the five pieces with the air cut-off tool, cleaned up the ends with a file, and proceeded to install the wheel spacer. Uh-Oh. Big problem. The studs were too short. The lug nuts holding the spacer had at least 1/8-inch of open threads. Never acceptable, but especially for something as critical as wheel lug nuts. I can’t believe stuff like this happens, but it does. I remembered that when I went to install the kit supplied 1/2-20 studs, there were two slightly different styles. The tapered end on five was slightly different than the other five. Of course I put the matching five together on each side. Just what I do. What I now know, which didn’t register until now, is that one set was 1/4-shorter than the other. As a result, my cut off studs were now 1/4-inch too short. The warning signs were there, but I blew right past them and didn’t check carefully enough before cutting. You know the old carpenter’s line – I cut it three times and it was still too short. I guess that applies to building cars as well. I had no choice to but tear everything apart and replace those five studs. One step forward, two back.

Checked local parts stores, and no one had the right studs in stock. Checked Summit and they had multiple options. Ordered Dorman 610-290. Only thing available was a package of 10, so enough for another do-over (!!). Price was right though. I like ARP stuff, but theirs were three times the price for 5. I figured the Dorman parts were equivalent to the ones I already had, which turned out to be the case. While waiting for the parts to arrive, tore the rear suspension down and removed the bearing hub. Wasn’t too bad. After getting the brakes off, with the UCA and toe arm bolts out, the knuckle swung far enough out to get the CV axle out of the way and access to the four bearing bolts. Pressed out the now too short studs, cut the new ones to the proper length once they arrived (after checking my math multiple times), installed them into the hub, and put everything back together. All worked out fine and the replacement studs were exactly the right length. Good grief. What a pain. I put some Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black Satin rattle can paint on the spacers and installed torquing the nuts to 85 ft/lbs. Now really done on both sides. I think. :rolleyes:


On a separate note, a little bit of news about the Gen 3 Coyote. Last Saturday, our local club (Great Lakes Cobra Club) had a club meeting at a restaurant in Dearborn. Just down the street from Ford world headquarters. We had a special speaker from Ford Performance who presented some information about Coyotes, especially related to their crate versions and use in our cars. He gave some general information about the upcoming Gen 3 Coyote crate, and afterwards I spoke with him in more detail. The high level summary is they do expect the crate Gen 3 to be released later this year. Probably by summer. They have a completed version running in a mule Mustang. Pricing hasn’t been finalized, but it will be more expensive. Apparently the DI components added are not cheap. They will have the Gen 3 crate Coyote displayed at the Ford booth at the Detroit Autorama March 2-4, along with the mule Mustang. I always attend that show so will take the opportunity to see it in person and talk to the Ford people in the booth. Maybe I can get a further update about availability at that time. Also will be using the next month to confirm if it will fit in the Gen 3 Coupe. That DI pump on the RH cylinder bank is an open question. Based on that, I’ll hopefully be able to make a decision about the Gen 3 Coyote for my build. I was also told they have about a one year supply of the Gen 2 Coyote crates in the Ford Performance warehouse. So doesn’t seem there’s too much danger of not being able to get one of those if I decide to go that way. I won't be disappointed if that happens. But not going to give up on the Gen 3 version quite yet. We’ll see. On a separate note, the Fast 'N Loud "winning" Pantera and (I think he said...) Factory Five Snap-On Coupe will be in the Ford Performance booth at Autorama as well. Will be interesting to check those out in person.

Speaking of engines, hopefully the parts needed to start mocking up the drivetrain in my build, including the T-56, will be arriving soon. That’s next up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #63 (Edited)
Preparing for Engine Mockup Plus

Lots going on since my last update. Not the least of which was oral surgery after cracking a molar eating breakfast cereal of all things. Happened before Christmas, but our dentist wasn’t able to save it and it was hurting like crazy. So he recommended I meet his friend the oral surgeon. All over and mostly healed. Feels much better. Meanwhile, spending lots of money the past week or so. Making a dent in the shopping list. That’s my story anyway. I think my wife mostly believes me. No worries. She’s very supportive. I have everything I need, and tomorrow plan to drop in the engine/trans mockup. But first some other updates.

Several have commented about the Corbeau Sportline Evolution X seats I’ve decided to use, and specifically asked about the mounting brackets. I ended up with Corbeau C22059 Single Slider Brackets. These are one of three recommended universal brackets for these seats, and result in about 1-inch added height. Perfect for what I wanted. This is a view from the bottom. They bolt to the seat at four corners, and then flat to the floor of the cockpit. Fit very well. Also visible here is the wiring and relay for the factory installed seat heaters.


While waiting for parts to arrive, did some more planning for the instrument panel. It’s starting to come into focus. I want to stay with the basic Factory Five design but try to (hopefully) class it up a little. I’m planning to cover the dash with vinyl like the seats with 1/8-inch cushion on the face of the dash. I'll work with the interior shop I’ve used before to add some red stitching. Also like the seats. Same for door cards. For the dash itself, I’m going to follow my usual practice and hide all the fasteners. Just something I like to do. Once I finalize the gauge layout, I’m planning to make a new piece and install it flush into the dash held with a doubler on the back. I appreciate the Factory Five design that uses separate panels for the various gauge options and a common dash. But I want to clean it up just a little and the doubler will make it a little more solid.

First thing I’ve actually done is to attach the dash ends. I used hammer set flush solid aluminum rivets and put the first pass of filler on the edges. The vinyl will be wrapped around for a clean seamless look. I’m going to add an extension on the bottom center for switches and the HVAC controls. Just playing with some paper patterns right now. I’m probably going to use the brow piece. But we’ll see. Also tentatively planning to fab a glovebox similar to #8674. Handy to have plus I like the look and I think there’s room. Still very much a work in progress, but where I’m at right now.




In the general category of why I could never build one of these in the several hundred hours suggested by Factory Five, spent some time cleaning up the door hinges. They’re nicely made and once installed only the arms show. I decided I wanted to remove the seam and small gaps on the visible corners of the arms, making them look solid. Well from one side anyway. Since I don’t weld, took them to the guy who’s done welding for me before and he ran a small bead along all eight corners. Then ground, sanded, filed, etc. (I’m not really too well equipped for this sort of thing) until they looked like this. Now off to powder coat and I think they’ll look good. Absolutely unnecessary and non-valued added work. But something I wanted to do.


After looking at every option I could find, went ahead and ordered the Factory Five heat/defroster/A-C setup. There are a number of systems out there, e.g. Vintage Air, etc. I just wanted to make sure I had the best option. In the end, the space available in the Gen 3 Coupe is very limited and the Factory Five offering looks like the best and maybe only solution. I’m going with it. Also found out the Gen 3 Coupe side windows are now available for sale. The design is firmed up and fabrication and powder coat underway. Hopefully I’ll see them in a few weeks. But no rush. It will be a while before I need them. The part number BTW is 60371 Gen 3 Coupe Side Window Components.

So on to the engine/trans mockup. I talked about the Gen 2 Coyote block I borrowed in a previous update. I ordered the Moroso pan and pickup, QuickTime RM-8080 bell housing, and Tremec T-56 transmission. I was able to score a great price on the QuickTime bell housing on eBay. A shop in California had one NIB for not that much more than the Tremec aluminum bell. So I grabbed it. Arrived today and exactly as advertised. As I understand the aluminum bell for the T-56/Coyote combination is being discontinued. So the QuickTime appears to be the only solution going forward. One thing I did notice. This is an SFI approved bell housing, and has a full circle with a line of bolts on the bottom. I suspect it's going to hang below the oil pan. I don't know yet how much it may hang below the frame. I'll find out when I mock it up and decide what to do. Probably some trimming will be required.

The T-56 I bought is actually a Ford Performance M-7003-M6266, but is a Tremec TUET11010 with a Ford Performance label. Just picked it up today and it looks good. It’s bigger and heavier than the TKO’s I’ve used, as expected. Nothing to trim off though, which is nice. One minor thing I was a little surprised about. It came with a metal plug with O-ring and bolted retainer in the mechanical speed sensor location. Not the usual rubber shipping plug. Nothing to do there. Pieces look like this right now:



Tomorrow I’ll get things bolted together and dropped into the chassis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #64
Engine/Trans Mock-up Installed

Today I was able to get the block/bell housing/T-56 assembled and installed into the chassis. I don’t have a flywheel, clutch, or throw-out bearing installed since the block is just a temporary mockup. So that made the assembly pretty easy. Without that stuff in the way, I could confirm the input shaft length into the pilot bearing. All went into the chassis pretty easily once I removed the shifter from the T-56. I thought it might go in with it still installed, but I was wrong about that one. Did the installation myself. First time I’ve tried that. Wasn’t too hard since just a block and not the whole engine. But help to tug, push, pull at all the right times is certainly a better choice. Not too much to say except post some pics and offer some observations.

A Coyote without heads, intake, and front dress fits pretty easily.


As mentioned, I had to remove the shifter mid-installation. Don’t make that mistake. Take it off before dropping the engine in. Way easier. Plus as I found out, it needs to be turned around. Perfect location for the shifter. No mid-shift needed (or possible) with the T-56/Coyote combo.


I have the Coyote spacers in the motor mounts. You can actually see them in the upper corners of this pic. The Moroso pan is a little above the frame rails. It will be slightly lower when I get the real engine installed. My mock-up block doesn’t have the pan gasket/windage tray assembly. So the pan is slightly higher without that added thickness. Engine is sitting nice and level.


The QuickTime RM-8080 does extend below the frame however. You can see how much here. I’ll be trimming some/most of this off. Will affect the bottom three bolts, and in theory I guess invalidate the SFI rating. But not an issue for my use. I wouldn’t want that extra amount hanging below the frame. All seven of those bolts in this location are just holding the block plate to the bell. None are actual bolts into the block.


The only real issue I had was the transmission mounting plate. The picture in the assembly manual showed it upside down. Once I figured that out, found that with it mounted on top of the frame tabs, the shifter was hard against the bottom of the transmission tunnel frame. Had to trim it slightly and put below the frame tabs. Height for the T-56 in that position was perfect.


Test fit the kit supplied driveshaft and it’s fine. Don’t need quite that much slip joint exposed for IRS, but it still has plenty of engagement. Pinion angle is fine. All good.


Overall bottom view of the installed drivetrain. The T-56 fit has easy clearance all around. Not at all the tight fit like the Roadster. Very nice. While I don’t want to ever have to do it, I think it would come out pretty easily without removing the engine. Clutch changes, etc. should be relatively routine. With the rear mounting plate removed, the transmission is pretty free to move around and swing out.


A few details to wrap up, but now onward with fuel and brake lines. No big surprises.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,887 Posts
Paul
nice progress.
On the dash check the clearance between the steering wheel and the dash "eyebrow" I mounted Russ's turn signal so the steering wheel is close to the gauge panel and there is not much finger room to the "eyebrow". Also look at the space between the AC outlet on the left side of the steering wheel and the vertical part of the "eyebrow"
David W
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
Paul
nice progress.
On the dash check the clearance between the steering wheel and the dash "eyebrow" I mounted Russ's turn signal so the steering wheel is close to the gauge panel and there is not much finger room to the "eyebrow". Also look at the space between the AC outlet on the left side of the steering wheel and the vertical part of the "eyebrow"
David W
All great comments. Thanks. I'm on the waiting list for one of Russ's turn signals. I'm planning to see how the eyebrow piece fits once the the final steering wheel location is determined. I want to use it, even if cut down. But we'll see. I want to put the AC outlet on the front of the dash on the LH side as you mentioned, rather than underneath as the FF instructions show. That's one of the reasons I'm expecting to have to move the gauges around a little to make room. Waiting for AC system to arrive to decide about that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,887 Posts
the AC unit comes with a nice looking switch panel and a mount to install it under the dash. I am putting mine in the dash above the ignition switch. The heater/evaporator fan unit is a tight fit in the passenger foot box - you have to set it so the lines fit around the frame rails. The air hoses come out the front.
On the angled transmission cover I will have switches for cruise, door poppers and a 12 volt outlet and usb outlets.
David W
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
the AC unit comes with a nice looking switch panel and a mount to install it under the dash. I am putting mine in the dash above the ignition switch. The heater/evaporator fan unit is a tight fit in the passenger foot box - you have to set it so the lines fit around the frame rails. The air hoses come out the front.
On the angled transmission cover I will have switches for cruise, door poppers and a 12 volt outlet and usb outlets.
David W
Are you doing a build thread? I'd love to see pictures of it, but not in Paul'd thread...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #69
Are you doing a build thread? I'd love to see pictures of it, but not in Paul'd thread...
I've ordered my AC system but don't have it yet. I'll be posting pics once it arrives and I work on the installation. But obviously not yet. Check Mike Everson's Coupe build on the other other forum. He has several posts and pictures of the AC installation. Also, you can download the instructions from FF and get lots of details. https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/AC-HEATER-DEFROSTER-COUPE-Gen-3.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #70 (Edited)
Fuel and Brake Lines Plus

Lots going on. But the main thing is last night I finally finished the fuel and brake lines. I’ll go through that in some detail and then a few other happenings. I started using rigid stainless tubing for fuel and brake lines on my second build. I really like the final result and find the process interesting and challenging. Is it necessary or required? No. But once done should be bulletproof and last the life of the car. Plus I think it looks cool. So the Coupe gets the same treatment. Even though this is my third time, I’m far from an expert. There’s enough time between each that it takes a little practice to get back into the swing of it. I wouldn’t say using SS is hard, but it’s definitely a little tedious and takes the right material, tools and process.

The way I do it takes an especially long time (and some would say is totally redundant…) because I don’t trust myself to bend the SS tubing until I’ve made patterns that are confirmed to fit. It’s not forgiving. Once you make a bend, it’s pretty hard to go back. So I use the supplied steel brake lines to make patterns for the SS brake lines. Then I use a piece of 3/8-inch soft copper tubing from Home Depot to make patterns for the 3/8-inch SS supply and return fuel lines. Both materials allow multiple do-overs and fine tuning. When good, duplicate in SS and install. Works well and every piece went in OK. But it does take some time.

The other challenge with SS tubing is doing the usual double flares. I buy my SS tubing from InLine Tube, a well known on-line supplier of brake and fuel tubing, parts, etc. They’re local for me, so I’m able to pick it up at their place in straight pieces. Nice. No coils to straighten. The material is the proper annealed SS. But you still have to be very careful and have an exact process to make the flares. I used the Eastwood Professional flare tool, which is awesome. It makes flares in other materials like butter. But for SS, if everything isn’t just right the flare can crack. When it does, 99% of the time on the second step, and 99% of the time my own fault because I pulled too hard. You have to use a light touch on the second step and they come out perfect every time. I check them under low magnification just to be sure. I practiced a lot with scrap material and developed a pretty predicable process. Most of the time…

The brake lines are all the usual routings with SS fittings and double flares at each connection. For the fuel lines, I’m using 3/8-inch SS for both supply and return. Did the same after a lot of research on the 20th Anniversary Roadster Coyote build, and it works well. Rather than trying to flair the 3/8-inch tubing and come up with the right adapters for -6AN flex at each end, I use a very cool compression fitting. There are a couple brands. The one I use is a Ham-Let SS 316 Let-Lok Compression Fitting, Adapter, 3/8" Tube OD x 37 Degree Flare. Breeze has them and that’s where I normally get them. I’ve also found them on eBay and Amazon on occasion. I believe Forte also sells them. These are a one-time installation on the end of the tubing and are bullet proof. As I recall they’re rated for something over 1,000 PSI. So I think they’ll hold up to the fuel line pressure. Once installed, a standard -6AN fitting goes right on. Perfect.

Lots of discussion on the forum lately about regulators with the Coyote setup, and specifically using a fixed regulator by the tank versus the usual Aeromotive adjustable regulator in the engine compartment. Definitely some simplicity and cost advantage for the fixed regulator approach. The regulator is cheaper and only a single line is required to the engine compartment. For this build I chose to (again) duplicate what I did with #8674 with the adjustable regulator in the engine compartment and two lines. Note also for the Coupe it’s necessary to run the fuel and brake lines through the transmission tunnel. With the frame design, it’s not possible to run them outside the tunnel like with the Roadster. If you did, the lines would be the lowest point on the bottom where they had to get by chassis rails. Not acceptable obviously. I installed all three lines in the top DS corner of the tunnel, staying as far away from moving parts (e.g. the driveshaft) as physically possible.

With that said, here are a bunch of pictures. First brake lines, then fuel. For the pedal box, I chose to replace the kit supplied right angle fittings out of the Wilwood MC’s with Wilwood 220-0628 straight fittings. This made the tubing bends a little more to my liking, plus eliminates the issue (for me anyway…) of getting the position of the angled fittings correct without stripping something out. Ask me how I know about that. First picture is the front and rear brake line connections at the pedal box. The front circuit comes out the top corner of the footbox. The rear circuit follows the path shown in the manual over to the corner of the footbox, down a diagonal rail, and then through the transmission tunnel to the back.


For the front, along the top rail of the chassis and turned down to the DS wheel. Not visible in the picture, but where it exits the footbox, I put a 1-inch long double layer of dual wall shrink sleeving. Did the same thing for the rear line where it exits the footbox. Will act like a grommet next to the aluminum panel.


Just like Mike Everson did on his build (thanks Mike!) I found the routing for the front lines at the wheels worked best on the back of the frame rails in that area. So cut semi-circles in the aluminum panels and mounted them as shown here. The DS has the tee connection to go to the PS. I ran the crossover on the top of the frame rail across.


Then back up on the other side. For these visible mounting clamps, I used the same ALL18320 Allstar Performance clamps with 10-32 screws and tapped holes as on previous builds. I just think they look better. All the rest (through the tunnel, in the back, etc.) are normal cushioned clamps.


This is the outside of the PS showing the attachment and flex line to the brake caliper. Same on both sides. For all the attachments to the frame like this plus the cushioned clamps I used 3/16-inch steel Q-rivets. From McMaster-Carr (where else?) but are available elsewhere. They’re many time stronger than the usual aluminum pop rivet and set really nice. They are a little tough to pull by hand though. I used my pneumatic riveter wherever possible.


For the rear circuit, as already mentioned, leaves the MC and goes down the diagonal tube where it exits the footbox. This isn’t the best picture, but this is the exact routing FF shows in the manual and their pictures are better than this. Note also this is the same exit point I'm planning for the rear harness and hydraulic line to the clutch.


From there, it goes down the top corner of the tunnel, and up to a tee between the rear wheels.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #71 (Edited)
Fuel and Brake Lines Plus (continued)

Then to the flex attachment points.


That’s it for brakes. For the fuel lines, I’m planning to put the adjustable regulator on the angled firewall area on the DS. So routed the lines accordingly. Here’s where they come into the engine compartment. There will be SS flex with -6AN fittings to the regulator from here. Same as at the fuel tank.


Then through the tunnel to the back. I had to take a jog around the T-56 shifter.


Then out the back and turned to the Trick Flow TFS-23006 fuel filter I’m using. Same (again…) as #8674.


Now that I have the lines installed, I can make up the flex lines to the Pro-M Racing fuel pump hangar. Already mentioned that in a previous post. Has true 3/16-inch in and out and pre-installed -AN6 connections. Perfect. The rear harness is just laying there right now. Next up is get the locations finalized and I’ll install with some padded clamps. Here’s an overall view. Feels good to get this part done.


So on to a few other points. Several have asked about the tools I use for brake and fuel lines. Based on multiple recommendations on this forum, picked up the Eastwood Professional Flaring tool during my first build. Not cheap, but they’re regularly on sale. I highly recommend. The quality of the flares are as good as any factory ones. Often better actually. Just need to practice on SS to get the right pressure mainly for the second step.


For bending tools, I started out with an Eastwood triple head bender on my first build. I didn’t feel like it worked all that well, especially for SS. The handles are pretty short, so for 3/8 SS was literally almost more than I could do to bend. I’ve since settled on these three dedicated size benders. All work very well. Ridgid provides decent benders that are better IMO than the average run-of-the-mill benders. Not Swagelok quality, but a fraction of the cost. I use a Ridgid 36097 3/8-inch, Ridgid 36117 3/16-inch, and a smaller 3/16-inch bender from InLine Tube. It does an even tighter radius when that's needed. All highly recommended. Here are pics of each and the bends they make in SS.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #72 (Edited)
Fuel and Brake Lines Plus (continued)

Next up I’ll be working on the rear wiring harness and get it installed. I mentioned before that I added wires for the T-56 reverse solenoid and back-up lights. I ordered the required connectors to be added to the harness. Just a quick word on the T-56 reverse solenoid. This is something I haven’t seen before on the T-5 or TKO’s. Tremec added a solenoid to the T-56 that needs to be energized to open the gate and allow reverse to be selected. It’s a nice feature. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s bumped up against reverse while driving and gotten that awful grinding sound. OK, maybe I am the only one… I tested the T-56 solenoid the other day with my Power Probe and it works exactly as advertised. With power to the solenoid, makes a healthy click and the shifter slides easily over into the reverse gate. Without, it’s a hard springy stop. I’ve done some research and found several approaches for this. Some live with it and just jam it in. It is possible. Some disable the function by cutting down the spring. Tremec strongly recommends against both of these approaches. Says it adds undo wear and possibility for breakage. Some add a switch to the brake pedal and energize when the brake is pushed down. That’s OK I guess but could open reverse during regular driving while braking and shifting. Others add a switch to push for reverse. It would be cool to wire something like that into a T-handle reverse lockout on the shifter like back in the day. But don’t see any easy way to do that without some fabrication. The other way, which is what I suspect is the case for Vipers and older Vettes where this transmission was used, is to have an electronic module that senses speed and turns the solenoid on and off. There are several available and that’s what I’m planning. Ties into the speed sensor. So when stopped the solenoid is energized, then released when the car is in motion. I like it.


Another detail I’ve decided about is the brake/clutch reservoirs. I’ve used CNC reservoirs on all builds to date and like them a lot. Durable, functional, and look good. I want to put the reservoirs in front of the DS footbox, instead of on the firewall like some have done on Coupe builds. I want to save that space, plus in front of the footbox makes the supply hoses short and direct. I'm going to route them through the unused clutch cable hole. Unfortunately, the CNC piece is just too tight there. So I’ve decided to use the Tilton 72-576 triple reservoir and just received it the other day. It’s plastic, so not as shiny as the CNC piece. But like other Tilton products, seems very high quality. I use and really like the CNC pressure cap method for brake bleeding. Found that Tilton offered just the cap, so picked up one of those. I’ll drill a hole in the top and add a Schrader valve and duplicate with the Tilton setup. The tape labels are just temporary. :eek: I need all the help I can get so do that kind of thing often.


Took my first batch of parts for powder coat last week. Should have those back pretty soon. Mainly just all the steel parts (hinges, brackets, etc.) plus the radiator tunnel and shroud. All those parts I’m doing in gloss black like the rest of the chassis. I’m thinking right now all the aluminum panels will be the silver/glimmer color like on #8674. Really like the color. Last week I ordered the Boig Motorsports upper and lower cool tubes for the Gen 3 Coupe / Coyote. They arrived a few days later and look really good. Bob is a pleasure to work with. It will be some months before I actually install them. But a nice upgrade over the standard parts plus addresses that difficult and very narrow transition at the lower radiator hose connection. My A/C system just shipped from Factory Five. Will be my first time for that kind of thing so looking forward to digging into that.

Finally, this coming weekend is the Detroit Autorama. I’ve talked to my friends at Ford Performance and will check out the Gen 3 Coyote in person for the first time. They will have one crate version installed and another on a stand. They’re still saying “summer” for anticipated release. See if I can learn more in person.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #73
A/C – Heater – Defroster

I ordered the Factory Five Gen 3 Coupe / Coyote A/C – Heater – Defroster setup a couple weeks ago and today received a quite large 55 pound box. There was a lot of stuff packed inside. Just spent a few hours going through it and familiarizing myself with the parts and instructions and thought I would share because this is pretty new. The list of parts was almost three pages. Felt a little like inventory time at kit receipt. Especially since this is not anything I’ve had experience with. So many of the parts are unfamiliar to me. There’s one minor parts issue that I’m sure will be resolved. Everything was present and account for.

I mentioned this before. Because of the space frame and overall layout of the Gen 3 Coupe, there just isn’t a lot of space for heat and A/C. I had looked at a number of systems on the market, and not one of them would fit. At least not in the traditional locations. The heart of the unit, the evaporator in the cockpit, that Factory Five provided is very compact. Interestingly, it’s a Siroco brand from France. It hangs in the top of the PS footbox. I’ve seen pictures of it installed (thanks Mike, again!) but helps to see it in person. Looks like it will be out of the way and not interfere with the PS seating. The overall system itself is pretty basic. There are two outlets on the evaporator. One is split off to the dash vents. The other to the defroster vents. All run all the time. The controls are temperature, low/medium/high fan, and A/C on/off. So not exactly multi-zone automatic climate control (!!!) but pretty much what I expected and should do the job. We've never had anything but heated seats in our open top Roadsters. So a roof with heat, A/C plus heated seats will be a pretty big change.

I’m impressed with everything I received. The compressor is an actual Ford OE part and made to bolt onto the PS bottom front of the Coyote. The kit includes the mounting bolts, drive belt, etc. (Note there's still room for the KRC power steering setup above it.) Many of the parts (fittings, hoses, bulkhead plates, etc.) are Vintage Air parts. The drier, condenser and several others are Omega brand. The kit includes the proper constant flow heater control valve, a trinary switch, a nice panel with knobs and a lighted switch for the A/C, all the ducting, registers, mounting brackets, wiring, etc. The instructions, available on FF’s website, are 109 pages long (!) and are very thorough. I put some power to the fan terminals and it’s alive. Overall, I’m impressed. I won’t be installing too much for a while. But with all the parts on hand will be available for mockup as I’m working on wiring, aluminum panels, etc. The front outside corner of the PS footbox needs an access panel added.

I will need to get an A/C hose crimper as there are a number of connections to complete. Factory Five recommends the Mastercool 71550. Or maybe take them to a shop and have them done. Factory Five recommends the Mastercool 71550. We'll see. Here are a few pics.






We’re doing a winter storm warning today in SE Michigan, with 5-9 inches of snow predicted. There’s been a bunch already. Heavy wet snow that's weighing down all the trees. It was almost 60 degrees yesterday. Crazy. Supposed to warm back up tomorrow and through the weekend. Won’t be slowing me down getting to Autorama on Saturday. I’ll post some pictures of the Gen 3 Coyote afterwards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Just a quick note. I love your work. I had the same idea to prebend the lines. I used a piece of about #6 solid copper ground wire available at Home Depot, etc. It bends easily, but it might be a little harder to straighten. For the gas lines, I used pre-made 3/8 galvanized steel lines available at auto parts stores, just cut off one end. I used -6AN connectors, push-loc hose, tube sleeves, and tube nuts. I started at both ends and worked to the center where I joined the tubes with a compression union. I never had a leak in 20 years and several rebuilds. I know you are not supposed to use 45 deg flare with 37 deg AN fittings, but it works perfectly with softer steel lines, and everything is reusable. The push-loc hose is good for 300 psi, so PS and brakes are out. I tried to add a picture, but I'm a rookie.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #75
Just a quick note. I love your work. I had the same idea to prebend the lines. I used a piece of about #6 solid copper ground wire available at Home Depot, etc. It bends easily, but it might be a little harder to straighten. For the gas lines, I used pre-made 3/8 galvanized steel lines available at auto parts stores, just cut off one end. I used -6AN connectors, push-loc hose, tube sleeves, and tube nuts. I started at both ends and worked to the center where I joined the tubes with a compression union. I never had a leak in 20 years and several rebuilds. I know you are not supposed to use 45 deg flare with 37 deg AN fittings, but it works perfectly with softer steel lines, and everything is reusable. The push-loc hose is good for 300 psi, so PS and brakes are out. I tried to add a picture, but I'm a rookie.
Thanks Tom. Appreciate the additional comments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #76 (Edited)
Gen 3 Coyote

Today I attended the 2018 Detroit Autorama at Cobo Center in downtown Detroit. Walked the entire show upper show floor and as usual lots of amazing builds. I heard from someone the number of cars was down slightly this year. But hard to tell for sure. It was pretty packed and generally the aisles were wall-to-wall people. The car hobby seems to be going quite strong. Several Cobras of various brands including FF and also several Daytonas. The hand built sports class (what I’ve been entered in the three times I exhibited) had a number of nice entries. So it will be competitive. There were massive lines waiting to get autographs from WWE wrestler Roman Reigns and Dale Earnhardt Jr. But I avoided those. Besides I didn’t bring a WWE belt or quarter panel for an autograph. (People carried those things in there…). Back on task, one of my big missions for the day was to see the Gen 3 Coyote for the first time and talk to the Ford Performance guys. Probably spent and hour or so doing that.

Here are pictures of the Gen 3 Coyote. First a walkaround. Here’s the front. Don’t notice any differences.


Left side. The hose connection right in the center with the plastic cap is the PCV connection. You can just barely see the fuel supply connection right above it. Also with a plastic cap. In the same general area as the previous versions.


Rear. Don’t note any differences here either. CMCV vacuum motors as before.


Right side showing the new Direct Injection (DI) pump and plumbing. Looks like because of space the Coil on Plug for #3 was reconfigured. The DI pump body plus the connector are the interference concerns. More on that later.


Another angle of the right side.


And then there’s the famous new cover.


Doesn’t look too great from that angle. It was up pretty high. Looks a little better in the Mustang mule that has the prototype Gen 3 crate installed.


Not much to say about the cover at this time. There are no coil covers for the new version. Too much going on so they just made the top cover wider. JLT Performance has shown some pictures of the new cover with custom paint. Doesn’t look too bad. The cover is basically the same width as the distance between the upper frame rails of the Gen 3 Coupe. Although it would sit above the rails. So clearance isn’t an issue. Jury is still out on this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
Gen 3 Coyote (continued)

So no red flags at this time except the same question as before, which is will the DI pump and related clear the Gen 3 Coupe upper frame rails? I have a Gen 2 Coyote block installed in the Coupe now as reported earlier. This helps a little but still isn’t too conclusive. The block alone looks kind of lost in the engine compartment. So gives the appearance of lots of room. But the Coyote heads are so big, it fills it to the top and then some. After looking at the completed Gen 3 Coyote, tried to come up with a way to measure where the DI pump falls. Best I could come up with was sighting from the back of the engine, the pump and connector are just under 14 inches above the top RH bell housing bolt. As in this pic. Note you can’t see the the pump in this picture. It’s eyeballed to the end of the tape measure as best I can tell.


Taking this dimension to the installed block in my Gen 3 build, 14 inches is exactly the available space. So as was mentioned before, it appears to be very close. But what isn't easy to tell is whether the actual potential interference would be above the frame rails, and then there wouldn’t be any interference. Or maybe there's just no interference at all. This picture is maybe the most enlightening, and gives me hope it might fit. This is looking straight down the right side from the front. Note how the pump and connector do not extend past a vertical line on the outer edge of the engine.


Looking at this picture from Mike Everson’s build of an installed Coyote in a Gen 3 Coupe, seems like it would clear. Note the aluminum cover on top is sitting loosely off to one side. Look at the frame rail itself.


So that’s what I have to report. I’m very interested it what others may observe from these pictures. Especially interested in some real world feedback of how much clearance there is to the RH side of the Coyote in their Gen 3 build. Also, the Ford Performance guys are still saying “summer” for the release. They said everything is done except final changes to the PCM. Also checked and they said everything is exactly the same as the Gen 2 as far as installation. Same cable layout, PDB, fuel setup, etc.

Bonus picture time. If the Gen 3 Coyote won’t fit, there’s always something like this as a plan B. If it fits in a Mustang, should fit in our builds. Saw this on display today and takes the award for the most outrageous setup at the show. Plus they got the color right. :p

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
It’s going to make an ugly engine bay.

The previous gen are so clean with the coil cover and small top cover that does not hide the overall engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,777 Posts
Discussion Starter #79
It’s going to make an ugly engine bay.

The previous gen are so clean with the coil cover and small top cover that does not hide the overall engine.
Well, the Coyote in general isn't going to win any beauty contests. But I have some ideas if the Gen 3 ends up working and I can get one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Thanks for sharing the pictures!

Things I noticed as just random observations:
  • The valve covers are molded a lot tighter to the cams than before which makes things look like they stick up more
  • Exhaust cam phasers solenoids and wiring are moved aft from the Gen 1 and 2 while the intake cams look the same
  • The oil filter mounting location seems moved forward
  • The CMCV actuators look mounted slightly lower and more compact
  • Throttle body may be pointed at a higher angle than before
 
61 - 80 of 331 Posts
Top