[Alain V.]

OK, after going back & forth about a thousand times, trying to decide between a 331 stroker or not,,,,

I think I have my next engine combo about 80 percent figured out.

I am thinking strongly about getting a DSS "pro bullett 306" shortblock, and want to know if anyone's had any experience with them?

I want to make around 400 flywheel hp at the most for my GT40 project.

Reading the DSS site, I like what I see, and the pro bullett seems to use some good stuff,,,like wave loc rod bolts, main girdle etc. for right at 2 grand.

I did a search at corral and stang net, but really don't like those forums, since they seem to be bombarded with 15 year old idiots most of the time.
Didn't really see any bad posts about DSS, but there's so much BS on those forums, you never know who you are dealing with.

Anyone got a DSS in their FFR?

I'm thinking the DDS pro bullet 306, AFR 165 heads, don't know what cam yet, Waynes injection, alum flywheel, and partridge in a pear tree

 

[Ozona]

They're local for me.

I bought my engine elsewhere.

 

[79pacecar]

I'm installing a DSS 393 in my FFR...I had it in my mustang before and it worked great...the only problem that I had with it was that the windage tray needed to be clearenced so that the connecting rods wouldn't hit it...

 

[Ozona]

DSS is a DBA for "Danny's Speed Shop."

 

[David Borden]

Alain, Ive heard good and bad about them. There are other shops like Kieth Kraft, Kuntz and Company and a few others that have heard nothing about good things.

Your a mechanic... why dont you build your own? Thier simple motors.

David

 

[Alain V.]

David,
if I build my own, I'll end up getting carried away and taking forever triple checking everything and probably throwing too much money into killer rods, etc.

Also, I don't have a block or crank to use for building one, so I'd have to either buy a whole stock motor & tear it down,,,,,or buy a new block and have all the machining done to it.

I haven't added it all up, but if I buy a new block, and all new parts,,wouldn't I be at about the price of a shortblock anyways?

Summit wants $410 for a new bare block delivered,
they sell a 306 complete kit crank-rods-etc$890,
then you still need freeze plugs/cam bearings$40, and the ARP wace loc rod bolts another $40

This comes to $1380, and you still have to pay the machine shop to bore the block .030 over, and add the cost of the main girdle/windage tray that comes with the DSS package for about another $400

This brings me to about $1780, and I still need to pay for machine work (bore,balance,etc) and put it all together.

I would build my own,,,but it looks to me like I can't do it for the prices these guys have on a built up shortblock.

Ozona- so I should do some searching under "Danny's speed shop"?

MY biggest concern with buying a shortblock, is that I KNOW they won't be as careful and anal about assembly as I would be myself.
...I'm not after a mega hp blwer motor though.
My goal is to make around 375-400hp RELIABLY.

Ack, I can't belive how hard a time I'm having,making these decisions. I sound like my wife when she buys wallpaper, & curtains!

 

[Ozona]

There's a fair number of mail order shops with pretty much spotless reputations to chose from.

I talked to most of them.

I asked questions around Chicagoland. (DSS used to be about 15 minutes from my office.)

www.coasthigh.com (Tim Lyons)
www.keithcraft.com (Don't remember)
www.levyracing.com (Gordon Levy)

I spoke with about 10 places on the phone before buying. The three above made the "Short List."

If you're going to do a search on DSS go into the Windsor Archives on corral.net. Also, you'll note that MM&FF used a DSS short block in one of their project cars. During the season end "refresh" article they had to change the bearings and remachine the crank. They did not take the engine back to DSS and the article smelled of "sour grapes."

I'm sure DSS has lots of satisfied customers.

Another one with a spotty repuation on corral used to be Dennis Hilliard / Central Coast Mustang / CCM. Lots of people here have had really good luck with Dennis's products including Wayne Presley.

As a mechanic, I'd bet you would get a kick out of talking to Tim Lyons @ Coast about some of the trick stuff they make in house.

One last thought, you can buy the whole pile machined and ready to go together from PAW. Never used them myself, but have read good things.

Regards,

Bill

Oh, and Tim is really open / friendly regarding Andy Dunn. Which really spoke volumes. I've learned a lot from "The Butcher" (Co-Miserate mostly). Tim enjoyed chatting about it a little or seemed to.

[ October 27, 2002, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Ozona ]

 

[Alain V.]

Man, you just brought me back around "full circle" to the first shortblock I was considering.

Remember this thread? http://www.ffcars.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005699#000018

Muscle Motor has/has (I don't know if they still are available) the coast 331 stroker shortblocks for like 2100 bucks!

On this block I'd run AFR 185s and probably a comp cams ex energy 282?, on it.

This would probably bring me over my 400hp mark that I'm after.

Anybody got one of them 'putor dyno thingies?
Wanna plug in this set up?
331 stroker 10-1 comp
AFR 185 heads
comp 282 cam (565/574 L. 232/240 Dur, 112 LC)

probably can't be real accurate since I'm going to use stack induction, and a very short GT40 exhaust system.

 

[Ozona]

I come up with 393 flywheel horsepower.

Desktop Dyno has a provision for individual runner intakes. I allowed 1000 CFM for the intake.

Peaks are:

393HP @ 6000 RPM
421TQ @ 4500 RPM

It's over 350 ft/lbs from 2500 on.

Andy has a better grip on the program than I do.

You might actually call Coast and talk to Tim Lyons if you're looking at his stuff. IMHO.

 

[Alain V.]

Many thanks, Bill/Ozona.

I was guessing "ballpark 400-ish" according to what I've seen/read.

Of course, the "final" numbers will come out when I finally get it done & go tune it on the chassis dyno.

I think I'll call coast & talk to them.
It looks like I can get a 600$ break by ordering it from MM and having it drop shipped, so I'll ask them about that to be sure.

....now, who wants to help my wife pick out the new curtains for the kitchen.

 

[Ozona]

I monkeyed around with the program.

Perhaps the Individual runner setting is screwey..or I am.

This same motor with a single plane intake and a 4 barrel makes:

510 HP @ 7000
445 TQ @ 5000

 

[David Borden]

The 331/afr185/comp282 cam would be real close to 400 rwhp! That will do it for you BIG TIME.... As Ozona showed in his last post, about 500 crank. The same stuff on a 306 will make about 450 crank HP... and by 6000 rpm's. So no need for exotic crank and such unless your roadracing.

Thats almost the exact motor I plan on building for the mistress for the nationals AP asault... except 302 ci(class limited) and I figure it was right about 425-450 crank HP.

 

[FFR3588]

Alain,
I've ordered two PAW short blocks in the past and have been very happy with both the price and quality. However, their online site sucks and so it' much easier to just call them. I highly recommend you order their catalogue even if you don't purchase the short block from them as it's huge (about the size of NYC phonebook!) and the prices are very competitive. The last shortblock I ordered was their 427W stroker kit which came partially assembled, all machine work completed, and shipped for about $3K. Here's the info if your interested:
Performance Automotive Warehouse
1-181-678-3000

 

[Alain V.]

Yikes, this is where I'd run into trouble.
Since I am going to put the motor in a GT40 with a transaxle,,, I don't want to be blowing the gearbox to bits every other time I floor the gas pedal.

I just got off of the AFR web site, and they have some dyno'd carbed combos making just over 400hp with a 302 and 165 cc heads.

If those are truly accurate numbers, I think that a 302-306 is more what I need.

I don't want to make "too much" HP for my transaxle to hold. It is a Renault turbo unit with a HD input shaft, which is supposed to be OK under 420HP.

...of course, I'm not going to be drag racing a GT40,,,,but it will see plenty of roadcourse track time, and "spirited" street driving.

Here's a crazy idea. What about getting a new 302 shortblock directly from ford? I think I can buy one for like 1200 bucks.
Throw away the cam & timing chain that comes with it. Put in the perf cam I want, the girdle, and bolt a pair of 165 AFR's on it.
Man, that sounds too freakin' easy. There must be a catch?

 

[Ozona]

Just put the 345 HP crate motor in it if that's what you're after.

 

[Alain V.]

only problem there is that most who've dynoed that motor aren't getting anywhere near what ford advertises.

After looking at the numbers on AFR's website I think I may have found a "match" for my needs.
The diiference would be that they used a single four barrel, but they have a combo 302 that made 421hp at 6100 with their 165cc heads.

If I build a duplicate of this with the stack EFI and keep my revs to around 5500-5800 redline, than I should be right on the money. (or maybe even a little high, only dyno time will tell for sure)

So after spending all morning looking at various sites, and bugging you guys,,,,, it looks like the best bet for me is to stick with a 302 displacement. DUH.

I still need to either come up with a shortblock supplier I can trust, or just buy all the parts & build one myself.
I'm still going to call coast & see what a 302 shortblock will run me from them.

When it comes to finding a good machine shop or even fab shop, Topeka is the last place you want to be.