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Master Student
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've installed my manual rack and it has left me scratching my head... do I really need to cut 4"+- off my rack and tie rod ends? This seems excessive. I look at QSL's pic of his set up and he has plenty of thread left showing. What looks wrong here?
Thanks for your responses.

Mine


QSL's
 

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We did not need to cut anything. Did the rack come from FF? Stupid question, but it's centered?
 

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Ok, I went to bed but could not sleep because i was thinking of this. So i came down stairs to look at some pics.

I think the problem is you have your arms on the spindles backwards. I know they say left and right on them, but you need to install them on opposite sides. I believe the left and right on them is only for the hotrod.

Notice where the ball joint bolt is in relation to the disc.
 

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Master Student
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I just went out and looked at it. I think your right. I took it apart and there is a small 45 degree edge on the top inside of the arm to facilitate the round corner on the spindle. When I removed the bolts the arm sprang away from the spindle. (I hope that makes sense) Anyway, I can't get the bolts out unless I dis-assemble the whole thing. I think it will be easier to remove the hub since the ball joint is in there tight. I'll tackle it in the morning...

I just found Sal's pic on post 56. His is like your's


BUT in post 79, it's like mine... Sal, I hope you're reading this and can clarify.
 

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Not a waxer
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Master Student
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've edited this post three times to tone it down and to take out the swear words. To say the least, it has been a PITA! I couldn't find my hub socket and had to buy a new one. Then I continued to take the hub assembly all apart and then I got to this point. It seemed like nothing went right. So, I'm to the point to ask you this question, what's wrong with this picture?



I started looking through the old owner's paperwork and found a set of instructions labeled "Steering arm bolt replacement instructions". In this 4 page document there is instructions on how to attach the steering arm to your 33 and/or MK4 complete roadster. He followed the instructions to a "T". After looking a little closer, I noticed the arms are different than the ones in your pictures. I think I have the 33 arms, not the roadster arms. They look like they have more of a bend in them... here is a pic. Would you agree?

 

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You're right, those are the '33 arms. Same happened to me when I first received my kit. Call FFR Monday and they'll make it right.
 

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Yep, you've got Hot Rod arms. In the photo below the roadster arm is on the bottom with the Hot Rod one on top:



Some of the early Mk4s were mistakenly shipped with these. Even though you are not the original purchaser I bet a call to FFR will get the proper arms coming your way.

Good luck,
Jeff
 

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doug, dont be bummed. Its a problem and you have almost solved it. Look at it that way rather then it setting you back. Seems like these things happen during the build.
 

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But I distinctly remember having to cut about 2 inches off of each tie rod end of my manual rack, so don't be surprised if you still have to do this even after you get the right arms on there. Just sayin'
 

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But I distinctly remember having to cut about 2 inches off of each tie rod end of my manual rack, so don't be surprised if you still have to do this even after you get the right arms on there. Just sayin'
This.
 

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I've installed my manual rack and it has left me scratching my head... do I really need to cut 4"+- off my rack and tie rod ends? This seems excessive. I look at QSL's pic of his set up and he has plenty of thread left showing. What looks wrong here?
Thanks for your responses.

Mine


QSL's
doug, if this is the manual rack that came with the mk3.1 complete kit. you may of been reading the lovely manual as i did wrong years ago did you install the adapters that came with it, if so they are for a PS set-up to the manual rack. those do not get installed, remove them. and are you in the correct holes for this set-up, verify the mounting locations.
i cut about an inch off of each side of mine, my old buddy St.LouisScott said he had to do the same thing. i still have the 2 pcs. in my tool box drawer.
need a pic of them send me a PM
 

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Snake Farmer
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But I distinctly remember having to cut about 2 inches off of each tie rod end of my manual rack, so don't be surprised if you still have to do this even after you get the right arms on there. Just sayin'
Or, simply buy the correct length tie rod ends..there are three size's available. I had all three size on hand to test :). The middle size works fine without cutting anything. (Flaming River manual rack for 79-93 Mustangs used, so perhaps ARP is different?)

Looks like Doug's are the length for the power steering rack..
 

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If you removed the hubs i believe the spindle nuts are to be only used once if they were torqued .

Joe
 

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Master Student
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yep, you've got Hot Rod arms. In the photo below the roadster arm is on the bottom with the Hot Rod one on top:



Some of the early Mk4s were mistakenly shipped with these. Even though you are not the original purchaser I bet a call to FFR will get the proper arms coming your way.

Good luck,
Jeff
FFR was nice enough to send out the new arms. I should receive them Saturday. This should fix the problem. I'll keep you posted.

Dear Doug,

You could also benefit from installing the Breeze Solid Aluminum Offset Rack Mounting Bushings #70634. :)
Mark, they are great. I used them on my MK3.

But I distinctly remember having to cut about 2 inches off of each tie rod end of my manual rack, so don't be surprised if you still have to do this even after you get the right arms on there. Just sayin'
Michael, I had to cut about 2" off my MK3 but it was pin drive so that was expected. I hope you're wrong.
 

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I just went out and looked at it. I think your right. I took it apart and there is a small 45 degree edge on the top inside of the arm to facilitate the round corner on the spindle. When I removed the bolts the arm sprang away from the spindle. (I hope that makes sense) Anyway, I can't get the bolts out unless I dis-assemble the whole thing. I think it will be easier to remove the hub since the ball joint is in there tight. I'll tackle it in the morning...

I just found Sal's pic on post 56. His is like your's


BUT in post 79, it's like mine... Sal, I hope you're reading this and can clarify.
Doug - Sorry for the delayed response but it looks like you have figured it out. As Mike (QSL) said, look at it as problem solved not a step back. Trust me I do 3 things and then go back and undo/redo two of them. I enjoy every minute of it.
 

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Michael, I had to cut about 2" off my MK3 but it was pin drive so that was expected. I hope you're wrong.
Doug: Here is the info on the Build Manual website that I used:


The built-in extenders — about 1.5” long — added to all the FFR Complete Kit racks changes the “gap” dimensions between the inner tie rod and spindle. In many cases, the rods are too long resulting in a significant toe-out where the wheels (one or both) point out instead of straight ahead.


Outer tie rod measurements
The outer tie rod (the end part with a ball joint and crown nut) supplied with the Complete Kit measures approximately 5.75” from the end that is screwed into the inner tie rod and the axis point of the ball joint. This part has about 2.5” of inner threading, so the ball joint portion that fills the “gap” between the tip of the inner tie rod and the spindle mounting hole is about 3.25”.

There should be a half inch or so to make alignment adjustments, so the optimal gap between the spindle mount and the tip of the inner tie rod is roughly 3.75” (3.25 non-threaded ball joint portion plus .50 adjustment).


Measurement of the gap between inner tie rod and spindle mount
With the rack still at its mid-point, measure between the spindle mount hole and where threading stops on the inner tie rod. Specifically note the “gap” between the tip of the inner tie rod and the spindle hole.

In the photo example, the overall length is 7 inches, of which 2.5” is the gap between the tip of the inner tie rod and the spindle mounting hole.

Compared to the 3.75” gap requirement calculated above, this rod is 1.25” too long. There is plenty of remaining threaded rod; if 1.25” is cut off, 3.25” of thread remains and the tie rod end only has 2.5” of threaded bore. This leaves about 3/4” for a locking nut.

Depending on the rod/spindle gap, cut an appropriate length off the inner tie rods of both sides of the rack.


I suggest that anyone interested in this topic go to the build manual website and look at the pictures etc. You have to register to get access, but its free.

-Michael
 

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Mike, did it need it though?

The factory five manual does not say you need to cut it for manual rack. Like i said before, we did not cut ours and there is plenty of adjustment.

I am pretty sure that site has a lot of outdated stuff. I dont think it was written for the mk4. It has some good tips, but i found a lot of the mods on that site to already been done to the mk4 from FF.
 
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