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Discussion Starter #101
Engine placement done ... The good news and the bad news

Good news! We set the engine and welded in the motor mount pedestals. The engine is positioned 2" forward giving plenty of space behind the engine, adequate clearance at both foot boxes and about 1" between the front pulley and the front cross member. It's sitting nice and square with offset and pitch to match the differential.





Now the bad news. The stock Mustang exhaust manifolds are not going to cut it! On the driver's side they are a real tight fit to the foot box. And on both sides the outlet runs directly toward the angled down-tube that runs between the 4" main tube and the 2" x 2" cross member behind the dash.



What to do? Ideally the tubes from the front two cylinders would run straight back, then join the third and fourth tubes to go down and inboard to get between the 4" main tubes. It's hard to tell from on-line pics, bit a quick survey of aftermarket manifolds didn't turn up any solutions. None of the block huggers seem to turn inward at the collector. Maybe a modified after market block hugger? Or maybe the stock manifolds can be modified to work. Or maybe I have to ditch the whole undercar exhaust thing and go with side pipes. But even those would probably need tweaking.

This is what happens when you go where no one has gone before! I'll ponder this until after I have a bell housing and transmission in place.
 

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Glenn,

Dont know if this works but could you simply switch sides with the manifolds and then work from the front of the engine backwards?

John
 

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Discussion Starter #103
I didn’t mention that I tried the side to side swap. The outlets run right into the AC compressor and the alternator. But that sort of routing might be the answer for a custom manifold. I’ll keep it in mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #104
Getting back into the build

December was an unusually eventful month ... some joyous and some mournful. But that's behind us now. It feels good to get back into this build!

Weeks ago I had good reason to jump ahead into wiring before really buttoning up the suspension. But now it's time to fix that. For the initial installation of the T-bird IRS the manual suggests installing only some of the spacers on the lower control arms. This helps a lot when setting the track width and alignment. Today I installed the rest of the spacers and torqued everything down. At the front I set the suspension to 4" ride height, centered the steering rack and did a rough front end alignment. I'm sure all this will need to be tweaked when there's an engine in the chassis, but it's close enough for a roller.

Finally, I just ordered a set of block hugger headers from our friends at Summit Racing. These are Patriot H8483. Everything I can find tells me that these are my best bet for fitting undercar exhaust to the Coyote in this custom coupe. I can't wait to see how these work out!
 

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Discussion Starter #105
Meanwhile

With the engine still on the stand I mounted the block hugger headers. I didn't get the immediate gratification that I was hoping for, but these things might be modified to work. As it is the collector flanges will interfere with the 4" main frame tubes. A few pie cuts and some welding might bring them close enough that they will fit between the frame tubes. Even so, they might be too low to keep the pipes from hanging below the frame.

But before I start cutting up those headers I need to be certain of where the rest of the drive line will sit, especially starter and the bell housing. So I picked up the phone and called my good friends at CJ Pony Parts. A bell housing, transmission and clutch are on the way!



Meanwhile, I installed a clutch safety switch. I made up brackets from aluminum stock and bolted them to the top of the pedal box mounting. I think that will work.



I mocked up the routing of the rear harness through the tunnel as described in the manual. But since I will (I hope) be running exhaust pipes through the tunnel I thought it would be better to route the harness inside the cabin. It fits pretty well along the passenger side of the tunnel, and there's a convenient spot to punch it through the back wall to run along the outside of the frame to the rear of the car. I'll route it down at the floor for now. But depending on seat fitment I might mount it higher on the side of the tunnel. In either case I'll make up a trough to protect it and hold it in place.

 

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Discussion Starter #106
Slowly making progress on several fronts

Wiring:
I have all of the Ron Francis wiring harness laid in place. I still have a lot of connections to make to it, but the dash wiring is nearly complete. A few extra items are already added; marine wipers with controller, a pair of 6-fuse sub panels (one always on and one key on), and a master cutoff switch. Things that still need work are power window switches, door solenoid switches, wiper set up (sweep and parking), heater/ac controls, a few power ports and probably a couple of other things that will come to mind later.
I made up a harness for the rear lighting. It includes corner marker lights with turn signals, four 4" round LEDs (2 with backup), and a trailer adapter to convert the harness's 3-wire set up to a 2-wire set up. I decided to run the rear harness inside the cockpit instead of through the tunnel to protect it from the exhaust heat. A quick test shows that these lights are going to be plenty bright!

Exhaust manifolds:
Remember that I want to run the exhaust under the car? I finally bit the bullet and bought the bell housing and TKO-600 transmission so I could be sure of clearances for the headers and exhaust. It turns out that the block-hugger headers I bought run just outboard of the starter. I was really hoping that I could get the to collector tucked in between the 4" main tubes. But it doesn't look like that can happen. F-150 manifolds run above the starter ... maybe there's a solution to be found there.



Fuel Fill:
I'm using a custom fuel tank from RCI as part of my search for more trunk space. The fuel fill needs a bit of custom work. The tank is fitted with a 1-3/4" tube at 45* and needs a little bit of a dog-leg bend to get over the rear frame rail. I got a couple of stainless tubes 45* bends, did a bit of cutting and fitting, and let my buddy with a TIG do his thing. I can't finalize this until the body is back on, but I'm pretty sure that it will have to swing rearward. I also fabbed up a removable panel for the trunk floor that gives easy access to the fittings and wiring at the top of the tank.



Brakes:
The final component for the brake system is the reservoirs. I got a nice three bowl unit from Tilton. Is it too much to ask for the vendor to list the required hose size? The master cylinders use 1/4" ID hose and the reservoir uses 3/8" ID hose. Shopping for adapters again. Ugh!

It's kinda starting to look like a car ... kinda!

 

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Nice Glenn,

You can always go back to a hand crank and the eliminate the starter if that makes the routing of the exhaust easier:grin2::grin2::grin2:

Good progress on the rest of the build, keep it going!

John
 

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Discussion Starter #108
Haha! You're not the first one to suggest that!
 

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Discussion Starter #109 (Edited)
Mock up install for the drive line

A friend stopped by to lend a hand. I think I already mentioned that I don't like working alone with stuff that can crush me! The mission for the day was to assemble the engine, bell housing and transmission (TKO 600), then set it all in the chassis. With that done I can determine whether these block hugger headers will work for me, or if my notion of under-car exhaust is even feasible.

With a little bit of wrestling we got everything bolted together and it all dropped into the frame pretty painlessly. Flipping the shifter mount around as I expected put it in a great location. No dog-leg needed. Unfortunately the engine did not sit down on the pedestals completely. I need to extend the slots in the pedestals about a half inch so it can sit all the way down.

Once that is done and the engine is in position I'll be able to assess a few other things. How far up must I shim the engine to keep the oil pan from hanging below the frame? What are my drive line angles? What sort of transmission mount will work best?

I do know now that the original Mustang exhaust manifolds and the Patriot block hugger headers will NOT work since they run too wide and too low. There's a decent amount of space above the starter, so I'll be looking into Coyote manifolds for an F-150.

Dropping it in ...


It's in there! My buddy Dennis is checking it out, "That's a lot of motor for that car!"


I flipped the shifter mount around. It's right where I want it!
A rope is supporting the rear of the transmission for now. But the tail can rest on the cross member.
 

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Discussion Starter #110
Transmission Mount ...

Continuing with the drive line mock up I added an extension to the bracket to support the transmission mount. Now that I see it, there's no way I'm going to trust it. The mount is a full 7 inches away from the cross member.



I guess I'll be fabbing up a cross member!
 

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Discussion Starter #111
Under car exhaust ???

You might remember that that I welded tubes through the center cross member to serve as pass throughs for the under car exhaust. They are made from 3-1/2" OD, 1/4" wall tubing. This week I extended them a few inches to serve as anchor points for a removable transmission mount. I can only weld a little more than half way around, but I'll gusset the free end to the main 4" tubes. It should be plenty solid for holding the rear of the transmission in place. This is all just tack welded for now.



Also, I received a set of headers from Sanderson, and I think these are very close to working for me. They look a little unusual because the left and right sides are entirely different. The right side tubes go straight back and join in a collector just above the starter. From there the pipes will have to bend about 30 degrees around the bell housing and downward to get between the 4" main tubes.



The left side tubes go back, then straight down behind the motor mount and end in a collector just inside the 4" tube. From there the pipe will have to make a 90 degree bend in about 3-1/2".



It's pretty tight on both sides. Sanderson seemed agreeable about making some adjustments. But before I go that route I want to get a few expert's eyes on it. More later.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
Under Car Exhaust!!! And a few odds and ends.

This was a big moment for my build. I asked our friend Mark Dougherty aka "The Traveling Builder" to come by to assess the feasibility of him doing under car exhaust for me.

I think my build is unique in that I don't know of anybody else that has done under car exhaust in a Type 65 Coupe with a Coyote engine. I've been following the threads of other under car exhaust cars (SBF) and have made the mods to the frame that Mark did on other projects. I also followed the posts of SeattleDad for his installation of a Coyote in a Gen 2 coupe. With all of this guidance ... and the discovery of the Sanderson exhaust manifolds I was hopeful that I had found the right combination of mods to get this done.

Mark studied the situation for a few minutes and declared that he could do this! The left side collector will need to be modified and we will need to make a bit of clearance on the right side. But it's all doable. We will take this project on after I return from a road trip later this spring. I can't wait!!!

In other news, I mounted my eBrake lever. I got this eBrake lever for a 2006 Mustang on eBay. I got it mounted with a little bit of cutting and fitting. What I like about it is that most of the lever is below the transmission tunnel cover. Only a few inches of it will be visible. It should make for a nice tidy installation.




I mounted my brake fluid reservoir. This is a three pot unit from Tilton. I was kind of annoyed to find that the hose size for this reservoir is not the same as the hose size for the master cylinders. I found these 90 degree adapters that make for a smooth run for the hoses. What do you think?

 

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Discussion Starter #113
Catching Up

It's been a long time since my last update, mostly because my wife and I took an epic cross country trip that took all of April. Not to belabor it here, it had little to do with my build, but it was an amazing drive! PA to San Francisco, then PCH to Spokane and return to PA. Details on my "Team Limer" FB page. We live in a big, beautiful country. Get out there and enjoy it!

Back to the build, my main focus lately has been on the wiring. My goal is to get all of the chassis electrical functioning before setting the body in place. It's easier to get to things with the body off and I can package everything neatly. I'm not finished, but I can see some light at the end of the tunnel.

As usual, I went a bit off the normal path with my electrical work. Here's a brief run-down ...

The Ron Francis wiring harness is really nice! I routed it a little bit differently than most because of other stuff I've done to the chassis. For example, the rear harness is routed through the cabin to avoid heat from the under car exhaust.

I'm using 7" headlights that include two sets of amber LEDs. I'm using one for parking lights and the other for turn signals. There are LED side marker lights that have two elements and they are used the same way. I'm using the Ron Francis headlight switch, Russ Thompson's turn signal system and a headlight controller from Ididit. With this arrangement I have a real turn signal stalk with a push button that does flash-to-pass when the headlights are off and toggles high and low beam when the headlights are on.





In the rear I'm using the 4" round LED tail lights that I described in a video a while ago. These are trailer lights so I added a box to convert from three-wire to two-wire. Side note ... while testing this with my Power Probe the converter did not work consistently. After much frustration I found that there was a voltage drop because of the long leads I was using for testing. When I manned up and connected the battery it worked fine ... and the magic smoke did not escape!



I'm using a parking brake lever for a 2005 Mustang. I like the way the lever bends so that most of the lever will be under the tunnel cover. It includes a switch for an indicator light, so I wired up one of those too. It took a little fabrication to mount it, but its pretty cool.



I hung the door frames and roughed in the wiring for the power windows and the door poppers. The door poppers are activated by relays that are triggered by a signal from a wireless remote control I got from Electric Life. It has 12 channels ... lots more to play with later.

The dash in the car now is temporary. I have some ideas for a custom dash but I'll save that project for later. For this reason my dash front panel is completely removable. I can easily lay it down to work on the back side or flip it up over the cross bar into it's normal position. Moving the dash as often as I did proved to be a problem for the accessory and ignition toggle switches ... the heavier wires put enough strain on the switches to break them. So I changed this up. The wires that went to these switches are now connected to relays that are triggered by smaller gauge wires from the toggle switches.



Speaking of relays, I added a bank of relays under the dash. Some 60 amp relays for the accessory, ignition and start switches and some 40 amp relays for the door poppers.

Finally, I added two fuse panels. Each contains six fuses and each is protected by a 50 amp breaker. One of these is battery power from a master cutoff switch. The other is accessory power from an 80 amp relay triggered by the accessory switch. The master switch is accessible from the engine side of the firewall.

 

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Discussion Starter #115
Thanks, John!
It’s soon time for another video update. But meanwhile here’s a little thing I threw together just before our trip that shows the lighting in action.

https://youtu.be/GEq4WieQDCM
 

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Discussion Starter #117
Wiring Diagrams

The Traveling Builder suggested that I do some wiring diagrams to help out with troubleshooting down the road. I thought they might be worth sharing, so here they are, attached, in PDF form. They incorporate ideas I picked up on these forums over the years from many contributors; CJBergquist and edwardb come to mind.

Disclaimer ... I believe these to be accurate ... but, you know ...
 

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Discussion Starter #118 (Edited)
Under Car Exhaust ... For Real! Thanks Traveling Builder!!!

One of my goals toward making this kit into a road car was to run the exhaust under the car. I've been following the work of the Traveling Builder as he did this on a few small block Ford coupes, but I knew that my Coyote build was going to give us a few extra challenges. With the help of a friend I did the exhaust pass through tubes and notched the cross member at the IRS cage (T-bird / Lincoln) cross member. I used the foot box sheet metal that 2BKing had designed for the roadsters. And I built custom motor mount pedestals to set the engine forward about 3 inches from the normal mod motor spot ... a different take on the work of SeattleDad.

With all that I still didn't know what sort of manifolds I would need to get the pipes around the engine and down between the frame tubes. The stock Mustang manifolds ran right into the frame tubes. And some "block hugger" headers did pretty much the same thing. The answer was a set of headers from Sanderson. They are made for a Coyote engine in an F-150. The driver side seems pretty conventional with the tubes gathering to a collector behind the motor mount. On the passenger side the tubes run rearward gathering at a collector above the starter to allow the pipes to run down along the bell housing. Sounds strange. But it's real close to being a perfect fit for the coupe.

Mark and Matt were able to modify the manifolds and build the exhaust system in the space available. One down tube has to be relocated just a bit. The pipes run high so not hang below the frame anywhere and they clear the rear suspension in full droop with room to spare. Things are close enough that I'm going to need some heat insulation in a few areas. I'm very happy with the result!


Here are some pics and a video ...

The mufflers are tucked in on either side of the fuel tank. A bit of reflective insulation will be needed here. I'm not sure what I'll do about a tail pipe. A lot depends on where the muffler sits relative to the body.



After passing under the lower control arms (with about 1 inch clearance at full droop) the pipes go through pass through tubes that we welded through the cross member.



The manifold was extended down along side the bell housing to a V-band clamp where it meets the exhaust pipe. This view is from below.



And this is the view from above looking down to the V-band clamp. The manifold runs rearward above the starter then downward behind it.



Here's a look at the passenger side manifold.




A video to wrap it all up ...
Untitled by Team Limer, on Flickr

This has been a long time in the making and I'm very happy with the results. Thanks, Mark and Matt!
 

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Glenn,
That looks really good. You could terminate the pipes behind the banana vents and no one would know they are even there. Then mount the side pipes for a stock look.
BTW no video just a pic.


John
 

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Discussion Starter #120
Thanks for the heads-up, John. I fixed the link for the video. My other videos were hosted by You Tube but this one is on Flickr. Please let me know if there are any problems with it.

I misspoke near the end of the video. I meant to say that to my knowledge this is the first Type 65 Coupe with a Coyote where the exhaust runs under the car.

Yeah, I'm not sure what sort of tailpipe I'll end up with. We'll see what would work when the body is back on. I've had a few thoughts about it including running it through the kidney beans (or bananas or whatever). Venting all that exhaust gas into the Kamm cove would probably mess up the aero. But I won't be racing this thing anyway.
 
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