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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,
Starting to fit the body on my car and need some advice. I'm having two issues:
First the drive side wheel is not centered front to back in the wheel well, the passenger side looks pretty good. The driver side sits inside the wheel well completely and pass sits nearly flush.
I can push the body over some but it seems to "tweak" it. It also brings me to the next issue.
The driver side body fits tight in the door area, flush up against the front square tube and contacting the striker area plate. However on the passenger side if I push the body up to the front square tube i have a 1/4 gap between the body and door striker. The driver side also seems to prevent me from moving it back any more to center the wheel. Alignment has been set so everything should be even. Any help appreciated.

driver side pic: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx6Lk2GLwCrzM3E5a3N5ZGx1Wkk/view?usp=sharing

pass side:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx6Lk2GLwCrzY3d2aHpqVTF4SmM/view?usp=sharing
 

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You can cut, realign and re-glass the problem areas or try to manipulate the body into position, splitting the difference. The body won't sit up against the front door frame rail like it should. (More like 1/2 inch gap on mine on the passenger side when the driver's side touched, and I had contact between the rollcage halo and body before it would sit all the way down on the door frame rails) I'm building a custom body so I overcame this with fiberglass work, others have had to cut off the halo and replace it altogether. Rummrunner had a detailed procedure about how to manipulate the body into place, but again it's splitting the difference and putting the body in a twist. Welcome to the disaster known as the GTM body. It depends also on how "right" you want it. The "proper way" in my opinion is to cut and re-glass into the proper symmetry. The quarter panels to center the wheels, (side to side and front to back) the hatch to fit the hatch glass, fix the egg-shaped front wheelwells, etc. The door pillars usually require a lot of cutting and re-glassing to make them fit the window glass and the body correctly. Brush up on your fiberglass skills or get out your wallet. Damn shame too, a $10,000 original investment in working a body to make a proper mold would have avoided this for every builder. THERE WAS NO CAD-CAM USED OR EVEN A MEASURING TAPE AND TEMPLATES WHEN THEY SHAPED THAT POS BODY.
 

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Understand that you end up with both front wheels hanging out a little with this method. It's really about what you want to end up with. Try the alignment process and see what you've got. If you don't like it start cutting.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Little bit of an update.
I was following your method Rum Runner but still could not get the thing to sit right to the point where the wheel arches wouldn't need any work. After some drinks we decided to cut off the driver side door striker mount. Re set the body back on and it fell into place and relaxed to damn near perfect. Both wheels sit in the arches nearly the same and there is no twist in the body any more. There is a bit of a gap on both sides between the front square tube and the body however that will be much easier to cut and reglass than to try to reshape the quarters.
 

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Little bit of an update.
I was following your method Rum Runner but still could not get the thing to sit right to the point where the wheel arches wouldn't need any work. After some drinks we decided to cut off the driver side door striker mount. Re set the body back on and it fell into place and relaxed to damn near perfect. Both wheels sit in the arches nearly the same and there is no twist in the body any more. There is a bit of a gap on both sides between the front square tube and the body however that will be much easier to cut and reglass than to try to reshape the quarters.
I'll just add a couple of thoughts here. First off, yes....I've had a few bodies where the LH striker was holding the body out.....not forward, but out away from the chassis. Either the striker was welded on too far outboard, or there was a huge build up of fiberglass in the radius that sits up against the outer edge of the striker and it would not let the body go inboard toward the door sill tube. Not sure if that is what you were running into? We always just beveled the edge of the steel off or used a grinder to take a bit off the outer edge and bevel it so the body would not get hung up in that area.

Second.....If you don't get the body moved forward so that it is tight to the A-pillar tubes that the hinge points are welded to.....it will set up major problems for you with both the doors and the hood. You want the body positioned so that you can sight down thru both hinge pin holes and the body does not overhang the centerpoint of the hinge pin holes. Use the hinge pin holes on the chassis like sights on a gun....if you can't see down thru the very center point of the hinge pin holes, you'll end up with 1/2" door gaps at the leading edge of your doors. I'll try to get some pics so you can see what I'm talking about.

If you then also move your hood far enough back to match the body (with the body sitting farther back than it should), there's no way you'll get the hood open as the bottom front corners of the wheel arches will be way too close to the tires and will hang up on the tires when you go to open the hood.....not to mention that your front tires will be no where close to being centered in the wheel arches.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'll just add a couple of thoughts here. First off, yes....I've had a few bodies where the LH striker was holding the body out.....not forward, but out away from the chassis. Either the striker was welded on too far outboard, or there was a huge build up of fiberglass in the radius that sits up against the outer edge of the striker and it would not let the body go inboard toward the door sill tube. Not sure if that is what you were running into? We always just beveled the edge of the steel off or used a grinder to take a bit off the outer edge and bevel it so the body would not get hung up in that area.

Second.....If you don't get the body moved forward so that it is tight to the A-pillar tubes that the hinge points are welded to.....it will set up major problems for you with both the doors and the hood. You want the body positioned so that you can sight down thru both hinge pin holes and the body does not overhang the centerpoint of the hinge pin holes. Use the hinge pin holes on the chassis like sights on a gun....if you can't see down thru the very center point of the hinge pin holes, you'll end up with 1/2" door gaps at the leading edge of your doors. I'll try to get some pics so you can see what I'm talking about.

If you then also move your hood far enough back to match the body (with the body sitting farther back than it should), there's no way you'll get the hood open as the bottom front corners of the wheel arches will be way too close to the tires and will hang up on the tires when you go to open the hood.....not to mention that your front tires will be no where close to being centered in the wheel arches.
Shane,
Your input is always appreciated! The door striker was not holding the body outboard, more squishing the body door area between the striker mount and the front square tube. Also the body needed to twist, think about opening a peanut butter jar but the cap is the body.

There's only about 1/4 gap between the fiberglass and the front square tubes. When we set the hood and doors on things seemed to line up ok and the wheels appeared to be center. I will definitely check the sight on the hinge pin holes when I get home. It's actually going to the body shop tonight so I will bring these points up with him.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, I went to the garage at lunch and I the body does cover up the door pin holes when its all the way back. It also does seem to push the hood kind of far back and a little close to the front of the front driver wheel. I'm really not sure what to do at this point, probably have to go with what carbon-fiber said and make a decision and split the difference and fix what I need to.
 

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This is a rough outline of what we do here. Make sure that the body is tight to the front tubes with the door hinges on both sides of the car. Measure at the wheel arches to the shock mounts and push the rear of the body to the RH side until those measurements are dead nuts even. With suspension at full droop and the cam bolts set the same on both rear control arms, measure vertically from the center of the hub up to the wheel arch on the body and adjust the body until those measurements are the same. At this point, attach the rear of the body (license plate area) to the chassis so it can't move.

Get your aluminum wiper enclosure panel with bulb seal on it positioned under the leading edge of the body to hold the body up in position. Sight down your hinge holes and also measure from the top of the front wheel arch on the body in to the chassis/aluminum panel on both sides of the car. Push the front of the body which ever way it needs to go to get those measurements the same. We clamp the fiberglass tight to the back of the square door hinge tube, and if necessary, try to draw the body up so it's fairly close to the sides of the tube.....I don't worry if there is a small gap along the side of the tube as long as my measurements at the wheel arches are the same and I can see down thru the center of my door hinges. At this point drill and rivet a few holes in the hinge tube as well as a couple rivets into the door sill. Once that's done, we drill a single hole in the bottom of the body at all 4 corners and clecko the bottom edge of the body to the chassis. Once that's all done, the main body is positioned and ready to start fitting the rear wheel-well close out panels. We try to get those in right away as they also lock in the body position and support the rear of the body so it's not all just hanging there by the license plate area.

We also cut off the RH door striker from the chassis and move it forward so it's tight to the body like the LH side is. Tack weld it in place and then final weld it once we remove the body.
 

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So much valuable helpful info there, Shane. Thanks for always taking the time to help the entire GTM community.
 

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"Rummrunner had a detailed procedure about how to manipulate the body into place, but again it's splitting the difference and putting the body in a twist."

Nope GTM 327 body was not put in twist. One of the main things we did was not to force the body to go where it didn't want to go.

Ron
 

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I haven't seen one yet that didn't do the twist with the stock body & frame. Even Rumrunner said "a bit of a twist". Mine wasn't even close to matching the door sill and vertical door tubes and being lined up with the wheels at the same time.
 

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I haven't seen one yet that didn't do the twist with the stock body & frame. Even Rumrunner said "a bit of a twist". Mine wasn't even close to matching the door sill and vertical door tubes and being lined up with the wheels at the same time.
ROFLMAO - Well I was there and you weren't, also we made, and used shims to fill in the gaps so not to stress the body when we attached it to the chassis :wink2:

Michael's GTM 327 looked to be one of the earlier ones that came out of the "redesigned" molds, so it probably had a little bit more "QC". Yours if memory serves correctly is a Gen 1, so more than likely it had a whole rack of different problems, like every other one has.

So far, I have lend a hand on three different GTM's. The body fitment has been different on all three, making each build a different challenge.

That's why at the end of the build it's very satisfying, knowing you did something, that others can only dream about doing.

Ron
 

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What a joke! ROFLMAO! I've got a Gen II.:surprise: FFR didn't fix sh!t when it came to the Gen II. They only changed the hatch and the door a-pillar, and the front clip vents/removed the hump. Ask Shane about the door a-pillar to the body trick they did, way worse. The Gen II's were the ones with the halos hitting the body remember? The areas of the door jambs, quarter panels/wheel wells that cause the problems didn't change. I think you just said it best, NO TWO FIT ALIKE. The problem is, the wheel openings aren't even in the same locations if you measure them from center. How are you going to have proper alignment between the wheels and wheel wells without twisting the body? Anybody else just drop their body on and with no manipulation get the wheels centered in the wheel wells both ways, front and back? With a proper alignment? Anybody? Maybe Shane can chime in, any you built that close? I'm just curious.
 

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Just went back and watched the FFR Gen II intro video. Dave Smith says the changes "cut the bodywork in half" and that they are "high-tolerance molds". High-tolerance molds don't have massive asymmetry and giant parting lines in the gelcoat either. I bet he's got some beachfront property on the moon he'd like to sell me too. They're high-tolerance alright, just in the wrong shape.
 

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Body Fitment

I think its time I chime in.
The wheels should absolutely be centered in the wheel wells and centered on the chassis prior to mounting the body.
My chassis had the drivers side door striker welded in a position that would not allow the body to sit where it needed to be. Not a big deal, just cut it off and moved it around a 1/4 inch and rewelded it back in the proper position. I also raised the body off the chassis about 3/8" and shimmed the door sills to get proper roll cage clearance between the roof. If these 2 things were not done, my body would of had some twist to it...
The front hood clip needed about a 1-1/2" extension added the right side fender where it meets the windshield in order to center the front wheels.

The total time to make these 3 mods took about a day of my time. In my opinion I thought it was not worth complaining about. The GTM is a Kit Car and part of the fun is building and modifying the car to your own personal likes. I've seen completed builds that did not address these issues but thats fine too.

The bulk of my build was doing body work to get the windows, doors and body lines to look and function like a factory production car. Most of this was not done on my track prepped GTM and from 10 feet away its hard to notice. So, to sum it up, if you want a perfect fitting supercar, save some time and money and buy a Ferrari.
 

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Arrow steel, not to be argumentative here but I think it is fair to criticize the gen 2 body. There was clearly a problem with the gen 1's and Dave said that he heard us and fixed the problems and now the body work is cut in half. Well what's wrong with holding his feet to the fire and say no, no you didn't. I know in my line of work we are always looking for ways to improve in everything we do. It just doesn't seem to be the same culture with Factory Five. There are so many things that could be improved, even the manual is lacking. I bought a gen 2 believing that the kinks had been worked out with the body (body work being my weakness) and I feel a little duped. Now bring out the flame throwers lol
 

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Exactly. I paid $25,000, I'm gonna complain if I want to. I'm not doin' it for me anyway Arrowsteel, I'm going full custom body. I'm bitching for guys like this that felt duped and all they wanted was an as advertised cad-cam designed car. There are companies that make bodies that are symmetrical and don't require any of this bs. I often use RCR as an example. The SLC body can be cut and buffed in gelcoat it's so nice. That old bs about 10 feet away has nothing to do with us building a dream car. Mine will go the track also but it'll look good no matter how close you get. If you want a 10 foot away track car fine, but that's not what's being advertised by FFR. Unrealistic build expectations lead to selling the thing before it's done because of unexpected/hidden costs to the builder. Happens all the time with the GTM. That 10 foot comment is ridiculous.
 
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