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Too Cheap to paint!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Still doing my research for repacing my original, non-adjustable Pro-Shocks. I'll be replacing all four corners, then back to Mark D's to have the car re-balanced.

I was also looking at double adjustable shocks, but wonder if the expense is worth the dual adjust?

The bulk of my use is on the track, with some street. My thinking is if I can find a good firmer setting for the track, and then a softer setting for the street, adjusting the shocks while swapping tires/rims will not be too much of a hassle, and can change settings fairly quickly. I figure it will take a few track days to find a good set-up.

So, open to all comments, experiences, etc on any shock that will bolt into the FFR's. And, what settings have you settled on?

Mine is a very late MKII with a three-link out back, Tubular in front, PS and lots or areo. 600 lb springs in front, 450 out back. 17" Slicks on the track, slippery 15" Yoko's on the street.

Many Thanks!

Dan
 

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Albany ny
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410 Posts
The FFR Koni's are single adjustable but you have to take them out and push a button and twist so it's not practical to back and forth on settings. The only option that I'm aware of is QA1 that Brease offers.
What group/ club do you run with at Watkins Glen? Do you ever run at Lime Rock?
 

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Dan I made the switch from Pro Shocks to the FFR red Konis along with the 350/500 spring package and there is a very noticeable difference in wheel control. In my opinion the upgrade was well worth the money. As the FFR Koni shocks were pretty much calibrated for the Roadster I would have to think that they have to be about as good as you are going to get in that price range.
I used the Red Konis for 2 seasons of Auto X and street driving before exchanging them (+$) with Mark Dougherty for the Koni (3012) DA shocks which I have to say provide a further noticeable improvement in wheel control even over the Red Konis. The car just feels much more connected to the ground and is a pleasure to drive fast.
 

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Too Cheap to paint!
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Mike & Kevin for your input, I'll keep these in mind.

Kevin,

My car is banned from Lime Rock, too noisy. I have run there with many groups over the last 15 years, it's a fun track, but more suited for low HP cars.

I Instruct and run at the Glen with many groups, including NASA, SCDA, Phoenix CMR, SAAC, SCCA, and others. It's a great track that rewards smoothness, deep braking, and HP.
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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25,959 Posts
Go for the DAs from Breeze. Based on my DA Konis (wish the QA1s were available 5 yrs ago) I think they are definately worth it. Being able to adjust both w/ the turn of a knob would be great. I think these would be your best bet for a swap from street to track settings.
 

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I upgraded from the gold pro shocks to the Levy DA koni's. The difference was huge. The car was significantly more settled and controllable. The tires stayed on the track instead of up in the air. I changed the compression on the fronts a few times and didn't notice a difference. So, I just leave them alone and increased my spring rates to try and rectify the car bottoming out on the splitter
 

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What is your budget? That's going to have allot to do with what I would recommend.

The Konis that FFR sells are very good shocks for the money, although they are not externally adjustable.

You can get one of the best shocks in the world in SA configuration for around $350 each. The Penske 7500 SA.

Im going with the 7500 DA shocks at $499 each once I get my build on the road and decide what Im going to do with the front suspension.

The biggest issue with going with ANY shock, is making sure they are properly valved for the cars suspension (motion ratio, springs, weight critical damping, desired ride frequency, etc)

Its been my experience that many people selling shocks have no clue how to properly valve a shocks for a given application. A good friend of mine had some shocks done for his ERA that were so far off, that the car was literally dangerous.

I know that the shocks that FFR sells are done properly as they have worked directly with Konis engineers for several years in optimizing their shock packages to a give car.

If buying shocks from anyone, I would ask to see a dyno plot of them and the systematic approach they took to get there.

I got so frustrated from speaking to supposed shock experts who almost always conflicted each other I spent months studying the subject so I could have a better chance of getting it done right

When I get the Penske's I will design the shock curve and rate through the adjustment based on critical damping assumptions compared to other cars of similar ride quality and performance such as the corvette Z06. I will also consult with Penske's tech support as well. I spoke to a couple really sharp guy at SEMA the last couple years and they have been very helpful.

I would suggest doing lots of homework, and avoid buying shocks from people who tell you they are great, just trust me:D If they have been systematic in developing the shock and are willing to share the details with you and they check out against common best practices, you should be good to go.

David
 

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"I know that the shocks that FFR sells are done properly as they have worked directly with Konis engineers for several years in optimizing their shock packages to a give car."

David - May be true for challenge car (3-link) but are you sure that applies all around? I question that assumption because for example I thought the Koni part number for the front shocks is the same as for IRS rear shocks, and the part number for solid axle rear shocks is the same as the part number for pin-drive IRS shocks.
If the part number is the same then the valving would have to be the same - yet the springs they are used with vary from 350lb to 750lb.

My conclusion is that externally adjustable is the only way to go if you are at all interested in tuning your suspension.
 

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Get QA 1

I absolutely agree with Mark R. at Breeze. I put a set of QA 1's single adjustable's on my MK II last year, what a ride difference over the Pro shocks. Being able to adjust the shocks externally is the only way to go. I use 2-4 setting for the road and 12-18 for AX. Call Mark, he's got the right set up. Larry
 

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FFCobra Fanatic
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I think the red Koni's that F5 sells "ARE" externally adjustable (at least the last MKIII had them). You have 4 adjustments you can make but you have to take the shock off the car (not really) to do the adjustment. This is also a darn good shock for the street car if you don't really do some hard driving or make a track car out of it.

I worked with Koni in 2003 to get a good SA/DA shock for my car. I spent time wtih them and came up with a damn good solution to the Pro Shock. I use the SA shock and have been using them for the past 10 years without issues. This is somewhat the same shock that someone else sells, but not the same.

The question is: do you need a DA or just a SA shock? That's a good question. I can tell you from my experience I've been doing fine with the SA shock to the point I don't adjust it much (if any) when I do track days. I personally don't see the need for a DA shock. I'm also running the VPM sway bars front/rear with a 650# F and 600# R
 

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Don't forget that if you have the older style FFR lower "A" arms that you will have to upgrade those as well. I do remember that someone had an adapter or some other type of 'fix' to be able to use the older style arms with the FFR Konis.

Ray
 

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Premium Member
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2X on the QA1's. I put them on all four corners and they are a significant improvement over the Pro-Shocks, and they even fit the old style FFR lower control arms too boot. The only thing I would recommend is a set of the 1" spacers for the rears or a 10" spring vs the 9" as you may run out of adjustment room with the MkII. Scott
 

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I just got hold of some shock dyno charts and thought I would share.

First is the QA1 DA and second is the QA1 SA.
 

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Viking?

I spoke with QA1 today about Viking since the Viking product looks so similar to the QA1 externally adjustable coil over design. Turns out some QA1 employees went out on their own to form a new company, (January 2011 by their brochure) and located it right down the street from QA1. Viking is not affiliated with QA1. My contact at QA1 was very professional about it. I've been working with QA1 for about 10 years and they have been an outstanding vendor.

For the benefit of those here considering new shocks for their FFR roadster or coupe I would like to point out that there are no part numbers that you can order from Summit or Jegs or even QA1 or now Viking that will get you shocks that will bolt in to a FFR.
QA1 supplies a specially designed shock part numbers to Breeze Automotive that we have engineered to go with our exclusive coil over shock installation kit which are specifically designed for the Roadster and Coupe.

To see them go to Breeze Automotive Factory Five Racing, click "All Products" then click "Shocks"

Hope that helps!
 

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FFCobra Craftsman
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Based on my experience w/ my Levy DA konis, I would go w/ the Breeze DAs. On the Konis rebound is a couple of minute adjustment but bump is usually 45 minutes for a pair. A real pain so doesn't get changed much. If you want to save some money get SAs for the front and DAs for the rear. that would allow a very quick and easy swap from track settings to street settings. My experience is that the front has much less effect on ride than the rear.
 
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