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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK I've put in my first season in auto-x on road tires, and though I've made some improvement it is clear that I need better tires to get better times.
can you guys give a beginer a lesson in tire types, compounds, size's etc.etc. Can I get good tires in 15" or should I go with new wheels and 17"
Thanks Greg
 

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I have found that the:
Hoosier DOT stickies produce my fastest times on autocross courses and road courses. The drawback is that I only seem to be able to get about 7-8 heat cycles out of them on the track before they are toast.

I have fount Toyos to be an excellent comnpromise tire since it has been almost as fast at the track, but lasts much longer. I also buy these in "full tread" depth, and have my local guru shave them to 4/32 for me. HE has different "patterns" that the tires can be shaved to.

I have never used Kumhos, and have heard "mixed" comments about them good and bad. The ITA honda guys love em, but they have very light front drive cars,,,,,very different than a FFR.

The goodyears are expensive and not competitive.

BFG's had a great tire with the old comp T/A R1, then they screwed it all up when they came out with the KD or G force or whatever it's called now. Anyways, I don't know if they've ever recovered from it.

Yoke's, I also have to admit I don't have any experience with.

Hope this helps.
 

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the kumho victor racer 700 was always a great tire IMHO and experiance. Sticky enough to work well, cheap enough that you could drive them hard & not worry abou tit...

-jac
 

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All most everyone in our local auto-x uses the Kumho V700 Victoracer tires. No matter what size car or rim. Hoosiers may be a better tire, but not $200 extra a set better. (From what I'm told.)

I have just bought a set of Kumho's for my donor car to use next season. Hopefully they'll help a little.

Good Luck. Isn't auto-x the most fun you can have with your clothes on??? :D
 

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If you plan on running any SCCA (national or pro) events in prepared go with 16" or less. 17" will put you in modified. I like Hoosier and Goodyear while Kumho is the best bang for the buck. Hoosier and Goodyear also offer different compounds, the softer, the more grip, the more you have to replace. Enjoy.
Dave
 

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What sticky tires can you also run as your street tires? Milage not being an issue.

[ November 18, 2002, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Bart Carter ]
 

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You can run the Kumho V700 as a fair weather street tire also. They are an excellent tire for the FFR's and we have used them quite a bit. They are a forgivig tire and they stick well when the track conditions are cold.

The Hoosiers do not stick cold. Alain is 100% correct, they are faster than the Kumho's by at least 1 second BUT they "go away" much faster and they cost more. David and I ran them at the beginning of last season and they were awesome, but they dropped off a cliff after about 60 runs. With two of us running the car that wasn't very long. We went back to Kumho's and instantly lost 2 seconds off the racers we benchmark against. But as our driving skill continues to increase we have gained 1 second of that time back.

We would have to buy two sets of Hoosiers to make it through one autox season vs. only one set of Kumho's.

[ November 18, 2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Chick FFR Racer ]
 

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ive gone through at least 7 sets of kumho race tires. i prefer the V700 Ecsta to the V700 victoracer on the FFR. the sidewall is softer so you can run more normal pressures and get good contact patch on such a light car. the victoracers are hella slippery until they get to temperature.

both of those tires are streetable.

hoosiers will likely be the fastest but are much less streetable.

having the tires at the correct temperature is more important than the type, which is why i always run three drivers in autocross.

i am sure there is still lots to learn on your current tires, but learning to drive on race tires is also very worthwhile. fast cars are harder to drive well than slow cars and tend to cover up bad habits, so never forget that driver skill is where the most time can be gained.

have fun on the race tires. if you are used to street tires they will blow your mind


-james
 

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My only experience with "R" tires is with Toyo Proxes RA1, now running 275/40 on 17 x 9 rims. I use them for street and autocross, and love them. Compared to some of the local guys who run Kumho Victoracer V700, I'm probably giving away a second or so, but the Kumho's are treacherous on the road in the rain. The RA1's are good road rain tires, until worn down to almost slicks. I have 5,500 miles on the present set, forgot to rotate front to rear so the fronts are pretty worn, but I should get about 7,500 miles out of em. So far this includes an estimated 50+ 35-40 second autocross runs by me and a couple of guest drivers, and a weekend of 5 2'30"+ runs at Bay Bottom Crawl on that grippy crushed shellrock-based asphalt they use in the Keys. Once I have a set of race wheels, I hope to do what Dave described: 16" super-sticky slicks I can haul to races in the trailer attached to the rear of the Cobra.

BTW, I've noticed many of the serious autocrossers using Kumho's down here have switched over to Ecstas from Victoracers. Probably for the reasons James described.

[ November 18, 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: John Phillips ]
 

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hi john,

i have the proxes RA1 on my road race car. they are a little old, but i was happy with them. for one thing they acted predictably when i got squirrely in the fast turns at thunderhill and i was always able to recover the car gracefully. my composure required more work


the other reason people are switching to the ecstas is that they are afraid kumho will discontinue the victoracer and they wont have been able to set up their car for the new tire.

ive driven in the rain some with both types of kumhos and not had any problems. as long as the road is clean and wet (and its not deep enough to hydroplane) they are likely better than street tires. if there is wet dirt or oil then you gotta be careful.

-james
 

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I live in the desert, so there are no rain problems. But I am concerned about heat cycling.

Evidently Hoosiers don't go through as many heat cycles as other tires. That leaves two tires in my size, 315/35/17: The Yoko A032 and the V700 Victoracer.

Any feedback about heatcycle life on these two tires?

On the street do these tires get hot enough to go through a heatcycle, or do you have to really track them?
 

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I'll chime in...

I agree with all that have posted. Stay away from the hoosiers until you are the best driver you can be and you can afford $15.00 a run. No kidding!!

Currently we run the ecsta 275 up front and the 315 v700 in the rear. The kumhos are probably good for 100 heat cycles and then they fall off. The hoosiers maybe good for 40-50 if that.

The Toyo's by all accounts are probably the best for learning and dual street duty. They will remain predictable and fast until they cord. I have heard of no other tire that will do that.

Most will agree the Yok A032 are OK, but may be pron to heat cycle, and not nearly as fast as the Kumho.

You are probably going to have to get a new set of rims. Very few if any tires available to fit a cobra properly in 15's

David
 

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Originally posted by greeen1:
If you plan on running any SCCA (national or pro) events in prepared go with 16" or less. 17" will put you in modified. I like Hoosier and Goodyear while Kumho is the best bang for the buck. Hoosier and Goodyear also offer different compounds, the softer, the more grip, the more you have to replace. Enjoy.
Dave
where is he FFR classed anyway?

how do the 17" land you in modified? since the whole car can be build many different ways, what is legal & what is not?

thanks!

-jac
 

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Maximum rim diameter for AP(SCCA) is 16". 2000lbs with 10" wide, 2050lbs with 12" wide wheels. EM you can run whatever your little heart desires (how about 18 x 14 with a little fender modification :D ).
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks everyone for your input, I am nowhere near ready to run in a national event and around here it wont matter what class I run in untill I start to beat people. and I have a long way to go before that happens :rolleyes:
I know I need more seat time and driver skills, but I need some more grip cause I need more power in the turns and right now if I push too hard the rear wants to beat the front. I am installing the three link this winter and want to find some tires that will give me at least a full season, then I can go back to learning the car some more with hopefully better grip.

by the way what class do you run your FFR's in. Our SCCA president say's BSP but the car is not heavy enough to really fit that class?
Greg
 

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Don't run BSP! Some guy borrowed a co-drive in my FFR, and entered in BSP a couple of years ago, for the last event of the year after his own car broke. He ended up winning the class for the year over his rival in a Datsun 260Z. That Datsun guy tracked me down and was really angry...so I decided to once and for all find out what class we should run in, to avoid that hassle in the future. As I recall, the original 289 Cobras were classed in BSP, but our cars are significantly different than those slab-side Cobras, so we really don't belong there.

SCCA classes us in AP for Solo II. We had lots of communication with Howard Duncan, the class expert at SCCA headquarters, a couple of years ago to get a definitive ruling on what class we should run in. AP it is, per Mr. Duncan. Only problem is, that class allows a max. of 16" wheels, and most of us down here run 17". Mr. Duncan suggested the local SCCA clubs would probably allow us to run AP with the 17" as a local rules exception, but we wouldn't be eligible for National level events. So that's what we did. CFR-SCCA and Gulf Coast Autocrossers run us in AP for their events. Nobody else usually shows up to run that class anyhow, so it ends up being the Cobra Class down here. Dave (Greeen1) has really upped the ante with his car and his fantastic driving performance, so a few of us are figuring on emulating his setup to try to move to a higher level of accomplishment.

Greg, I ran 1 1/2 years on street tires, and loved every minute. But, when I put on the "R" rated tires, there was no going back! You won't believe the difference, on the track and on the street.

[ November 18, 2002, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: John Phillips ]
 

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Greg,

The 3 link and good street tires will be your best best to get fast and learn autocross.

I think a well sorted street car on STREET tires with the 3 link is one of the most FUN cars I have driven on the autocross course.

The problem and frustration you have now is due 100% to the 4 link rear suspension.

David
 

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BSP- a decent FFR is faster than the fastest BSP car in the country. been there, done that. you will make many enemies and be banished to MOD forever


AP nationally with the 16" limitations noted, or i run a local class called OSP, which is an (almosted) unlimited MOD class that uses Dot-R tires.

-james
 
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