Factory Five Racing Forum banner
1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm considering some oiling upgrades this winter to resolve a couple issues I am seeing on track. The build is a gen 1 coyote with a low profile champ oil pan. During hard braking, the oil pressure drops, and even holds 0 for brief periods of time. I suspect the pick up is being uncovered. The pan is well baffled and works great in the turns, but looses pressure on braking. The clearance from the pick up to the pan is properly set (3/8"), and I've been running an extra couple quarts of oil, which helps, but doesn't resolve the issue.

It looks like an accusump is the answer, but my question is how to best control the accumulator for this application. I don't care about pre-oiling, the engine is designed for many more dry starts than it'll ever see in my low mileage toy. Are there downsides to having no valve or a manual valve that is normally open? It seems like no valve would provide the quickest reaction the pick up gets uncovered. The control valves that are tied to oil pressure seem overly complicated and open at idle pressure (30psi) instead of operating pressure (100psi). Any downsides? Will I starve the engine of oil in some situations where it is filling the accumulator?

Thanks for any suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
Not sure on the Coyote but I've run a 3qt Accusump on my 427w motor for many years.

After spending time with Canton's tech support, I selected a 35psi valve and electronic triggers, but pressure was 50 or so during operation. I used a main switch to activate the system and then relied on the electronic valve during driving and track use. They have higher pressure valves.

I always preoiled and while I can appreciate your thought that preoiling isn't necessary I believe that with a motor that sits for unknown periods the preoiling is a good plan and doesn't have any downsides that I'm aware of.

I thought about the manual valve but the electronic is way more convenient. I don't know about reaction time, this is perhaps a question for tech support. Canton was great to talk to but that was '06, things may have changed.

I also used the Canton tall canister filter and their thermostat. Both are excellent pieces and the t-stat flows well, better than many of the other units that I looked at. I plumbed with AN-12 lines and used a Setrab 915 oil cooler.

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Ill let you know my experience. MK4 Challenge with 408W. Engine has a Levy Road Race pan. Loses oil pressure in braking and turning, so bad that I spun a rod bearing. Added an Accusump after rebuild. Mounted on top of the X in the front frame, very close to the engine. Comes out on a 90 to the EPC with 35psi switch, and into a sandwich adapter.

My only intent is to use the Accusump at the track. I do not use the Accusump for street driving. So once I am accelerating onto the track I flip open the EPC switch on my dash, flip it down when coming in the pits. I don't like the idea of using it on the street because my idle oil pressure is only about 20psi. That would dump oil in the pan and the crank would be hitting the oil and getting more oil in the crankcase.

It is much better than no Accusump but still not working to my desire. Before I would see 0-5psi often enough. Now with it and the 35psi switch it only maintains 20-25psi when open. You can see in the video below, oil pressure is top center in the gauges. You cant really read in the video but normal pressure is ~45psi, drops to ~20psi in turns. I reached out to Canton and their recommendation was to eliminate the pressure switch. So that will be my next move for next year, unless someone has another recommendation. Also thought about moving the switch closer to the engine.

Short answer, it absolutely reacts fast enough to keep it from hitting 0. But I still need some time to get it working like I want it to. I do not believe you will ever be in a situation where the Accusump will take oil from the engine unless there is surplus pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n05Gr7xo5Y
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I'm considering some oiling upgrades this winter to resolve a couple issues I am seeing on track. The build is a gen 1 coyote with a low profile champ oil pan. During hard braking, the oil pressure drops, and even holds 0 for brief periods of time. I suspect the pick up is being uncovered. The pan is well baffled and works great in the turns, but looses pressure on braking. The clearance from the pick up to the pan is properly set (3/8"), and I've been running an extra couple quarts of oil, which helps, but doesn't resolve the issue.

It looks like an accusump is the answer, but my question is how to best control the accumulator for this application. I don't care about pre-oiling, the engine is designed for many more dry starts than it'll ever see in my low mileage toy. Are there downsides to having no valve or a manual valve that is normally open? It seems like no valve would provide the quickest reaction the pick up gets uncovered. The control valves that are tied to oil pressure seem overly complicated and open at idle pressure (30psi) instead of operating pressure (100psi). Any downsides? Will I starve the engine of oil in some situations where it is filling the accumulator?

Thanks for any suggestions.
Hey Bhuff,
The only potential downsides of having the manual valve open is that you cannot effectively control the volume of the Accusump and depending your oil pressure the Accusump doesn't need to dump unless you are in a starvation situation. The starvation situation can be determined by looking at your operating pressure (100 psi @ 5000+ RPMS?) and choosing a valve kit that has the adequate pressure switch. For your operating pressure I would recommend the 24-275X 55-60 PSI kit. That kit will allow the Accusump to purge oil when the pressure is blow 55PSI and will close and refill above 60 PSI. Any other kit 24-271X and 24-273X would be not used as the pressure differential between operating pressure and valve switch operation is too great (oil pressure dropping from 100--->35 psi before valve opens).

The reaction time of the valves/oil recovery is hard to determine since it will be based on the pressure in the Accusump before discharging. From the many customers and users of the Accusump, I can say that reaction time has not been an issue when tested on the track.

If discharging at idle is a concern, we do include a toggle switch where you can turn off the valve entirely when not racing or used on the street.

Pictured is the use of the Accusump on a SCCA Endurance Event. Top photo is Accusump in use, Bottom photo is no Accusump in use.
Light Green Rectangle Black Slope
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Canton, thank you for chiming in, this makes sense to me. Yes, oil pressure runs around 100 psi with any kind of engine speed. The valve will likely be dumping at idle, but that isn't necessarily a problem.
Thanks,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Canton, thank you for chiming in, this makes sense to me. Yes, oil pressure runs around 100 psi with any kind of engine speed. The valve will likely be dumping at idle, but that isn't necessarily a problem.
Thanks,
Glad to have helped. Let me know if there is anything we can help/provide you with. Always looking to sponsor racers :)
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top