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Senior Charter Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm going to start rebuilding my 302 as soon as I get it out of the donor car, But I don't know if I should leave the EFI system on or put on the carb kit. Or just buy/trade for and an older engine that has a carburetor on it already? Any feed back or experience in doing this would be greatly appreciated.

Also, Can anyone recommend a good bebuild kit. I'm pretty sure that I'll need pistons, I can't just go with some 30 over rings now, without larger pistons eah!

I was looking at these kits, any other links to what you have used would be great!
http://www.gofastcheap.com/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=&p_id=2
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FEM%2DCSMHP800%2D000

Thank you.

[ December 30, 2003, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Mic ]
 

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FFR Craftsman
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Mic:
going through a conversion; I yanked the engine but somewhere before that, I decided to go carb. I started a thread back in October: http://www.ffcars.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=026559#000000

Pro - more period correct look if that's what you want, less wiring hassles, a little less weight (no smog related pieces, no upper manifold, no MAS).

Con - only 1 or 2 kits for a supercharger for carb, but at least 3 or 4 for EFI with varous levels of boost as well as a number of turbochargers! Also, better drivability at all elevations and basically use all donor wiring w/o any problems. Oh, and any Ford dealership can work on the motor - don't know how many young mechanics these days even know how to tune a carb. Hell, I may not even remember!!!!

Tuning a fuel injected car in general, involves thinking through all of the parts: MAS, Throttle body, injector size, fuel pressure reg. and programming. Once you get the hang of it, it's actually pretty much kind of a laundry list of parts (from what I've gleaned off the 5.0 rag) since most 5.0 enthusiasts have pretty much figured out all of the setups over the last 10-16 years it's been modified.

I wanted a simplified engine bay, somewhat period looking car but in my particular build, I'm imagining this as a "resto-mod". I'm taking a cue from the Mustang Restomod group and applying some of what I've seen. My FFR in the end will have a mixutre of both old world looks with modern day pieces. It won't win any awards for being period correct. But there are a few things that I did like on the old 427 S/C such as the steering wheel of all things, and the fact it had a carburator. But the gauges will be different, it'll have a dual roll bar, would love to "try" some BBS-RK's all around after seeing the Baer Braking's Mustang with them! OT, but those wheels look so close to what I feel the Hallibrands would of evolved to (10 spoke V's) that it looked perfect on the Mustang and I instantly thought of the Cobra having them!
Anyway, back on topic, read the thread. Very enjoyable and enlightening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank's for the input and reply. I wanted to go carbed becasue I know it's basics better them I know the EFI system. But im sure as I read your post and dig up more info on this subject I will start to find out what to do. The mixture you have sound about what I want. I want to it to look somewhat old school, with the carb and air filter, but have modern day upgrades.


Thanks again for the help.
 

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It's real easy for me to spend other people's money so here I go. Have you checked out the stroker kits? Coast High Performance seems to be getting some good reviews here. One of our sponsers, Muscle Motors sells their stuff. Check out the kits at www.coasthigh.com. Just think, new crank, new rods, new pistons and around 10:1 compression with most heads.

As for the EFI system, did it come from a California car? In 1988 California cars had Mass Air which is what most people are looking for. Mass air systems will sell for more than Speed Density. I think you'd easily be able to sell a complete mass air EFI system to fund a Carb conversion.

PS I just had to fix a link and went to the site, the 347 kits are on sale for $900.

[ December 30, 2003, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Cemi ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm not sure if it came from there, I live up in Seattle, and it could have made it's way from California. I know that my engine is not the "HO". Maybe I'm using the word EFI incorrectly? My mustang is all stock, an 88' LX. I assume that it is and EFI system. That's just what I call it
kind of like I call an engine hoist a "cherry picker"


I think I'm going to have to stick to a 302 kit, due to the little cringe the wife makes when I say it would cost $900'ish compared to the $300'ish of a standard rebuild kit...
 

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FFCobra Captain
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You'll want to check to see if you have a Mass Air system. If not, a lot of guys upgrade to mass air...it makes doing upgrades down the road easier.

I kinda wish I converted to Carb. I like the look and it would have been a lot less wiring to deal with. Here's a quick glimps at the wiring you'll be dealing with.

If you stay with EFI...make sure to save $400 on the side and send your harnesses out to be professionally dieted. Look up Wire Diet here to get contact info. Roger Stein does them. You'll notice by the clump of wires below...I didn't send it out for the diet. :confused:


 

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Mic, I did exactly what you want to do. I started with an 88 LX EFI from the donor, and did a carbed version. Some things I did were not required but I did anyway, like a hotter cam, better heads, headers etc. Heres the basics for the change:

1) Throw away the old wiring looms, fuel rail, MAF etc

2) Change the intake manifold to a carb one, Edelbrock RPM airflow is popular.

3) Buy and install a carb and air filter.

4) Change the distributor. (The original EFI one doesn't work without the computer).

5) Re-work the fuel delivery system by changing the in-tank pickup to the one that has no pump, pipe this to a fuel pump near the tank and keep it low down (Holley blue works OK), continue the fuel line to the engine bay where it will go into a fuel pressure regulator (comes with the holley blue) then pipe from the regulator to the carb.

That's it.
 

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FFR Craftsman
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Mic:if you're going to go carb on a standard 302, I do have a brand new (never mounted) Edelbrock 600cfm carb for sale. $230 (see the free classifieds) ;)

I know, shameless!
 

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Sr FFR builder
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If you are going to go EFI, make sure your 88 is mass air. My 88 GT Convertible was speed density and you really can't do many mods with that system. For what it's worth, I thought about the EFI thing but decided carb is somewhat cheaper, easier for me to setup and troubleshoot and looks more authentic.
 

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I know that my engine is not the "HO". Maybe I'm using the word EFI incorrectly? My mustang is all stock, an 88' LX.
If you have a stock 88 5.0 liter Mustang it IS an HO.

You have used the term EFI(Electronic Fuel Injection) correctly.


My first engine was a 88 5.0.It is an easy conversion to MAF from speed density.Other than actually installing the MAF meter you only have to run 4 wires.Of those 4 wires (If I remember right) only 2 had to go to the computer.
This is a quote from a previous thread
Well, I was going to do a carb'd build. I event bought a bunch of carb parts and was set on it.

It was mainly because I was intimidated by EFI. Then, I got curious and read this book. It changed my mind right away.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control by Charles O. Probst.
If you want to learn about Ford EFI this book should be considered required reading.

I am not into the authenticity thing.Personally I would'nt go back to a carb for nuttin.

[ December 31, 2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Smitty ]
 

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I'm staying EFI. For all weather drivibility it's hard to beat. No pumping the gas pedal or any other rituals, just turn the key and go. However, I plan to drive my car a lot. If it were simply a fair weather cruiser then I probably would've switched to carb for the look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If you have a stock 88 5.0 liter Mustang it IS an HO.
I was going home from work and thought, "HMMM I'm dumb, I do have HO" and I know I was going to be corrected... Sorry. Now lets all point at me and say rookie!


Thanks for the book idea, I Will look into finding it at B&N or something...

Quick question, as I was talking the radiator out 2 days a go, I know that the car either had a leak or something, When I was draining out the radiator, the fluid was rust color. I'm sure that wasn't good, Hum messed up is the radiator and could have effected the engine?

Thanks again for all the help guys!
 

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I was going home from work and thought, "HMMM I'm dumb, I do have HO" and I know I was going to be corrected... Sorry. Now lets all point at me and say rookie!
Mic dont sweat the small stuff.We all pull a bonehead from time to time.I just wanted to make sure you were going to buy the right rebuild kit.

As for the coolant was it rust cooler...or more like an orange kool Aide kind of deal.Meaning it was orange but you could still see through it like Kool Aide.If it was the later the coolant in the radiators was Dex Cool which is orange instead of the usual green.Either way if you suspect a problem go ahead and drop the radiator off at a local radiator shop to get boiled out and pressure tested,or you could use this as an excuse to get a new aluminum radiator ;) .


[ January 01, 2004, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Smitty ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
After much thought, I think I will go with a carbureted engine. Due to the lack of knowledge of the EFI system, and have some basic skills from working on some carbs. I love the shameless plug, but im not quite that far into the build yet. I have to get my engine down to the bare block first and see if there is any cracks! I would like to know what kind of intake manifold I will need to fit either a 4 barrel, or a standard carb.

Thanks, Mike
 

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Either the Edelbrock RPM or the RPM airgap work great for any 4barrel carb. They look good too and come with all the required fasteners.

What carb were you thinking of? I went with a Holley 650 double pumper to have that period look and to match the other engine mods. This is the critical part of deciding on carb size; matching the engine breathing to the carb volume.

Welcome to the 'Potato Head' club.
 

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FFR Craftsman
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Mic: my offer still stands for the carb. ;)
But first, the intake; what kind of HP are you looking at getting and "where" (ie RPM range). This comes down to the basic question of "what do you intend to do with the car?" This drives your component selection.

Personally, I went with Edelbrock Performer RPM (see my Dec. journal). I got the Peformer 600cfm carb to go with it but now that I've changed my mind for the ump-teenth time (going stroker), I need to get a 650cfm.

Edelbrock has 3 basic intakes: Performer (slightly better than stock), Performer RPM (power made between 1500-6000RPM) and Victor Jr. ( power made between 3,000-7000 RPM) You should go to their website and check it out.
Ok, they do have one more: TorkerII. But typically, this is used in racing applicaitons.

If you're doing a stock rebuild but with "mild" performance upgrades in mind, the 600 will work fine and decent milage according to Edelbrock. Also, which cylinder heads are you going to use - stock and just have them port polish and portmatch? Or new? A good head guy can make 'stock' heads work well; then it's just a matter of weight. If you're on a budget, I'd have the stock heads redone professionally; probably save about $500 over new ones that aren't even polished yet.

I'm probably tearing down my motor this weekend since it's raining (can't work on the donor's suspension since it's outside). I should be able to get it down to the bare block for inspection. Taking a hint from the forums and getting one of those large cement mixing tubs for cleaning!

Good luck with this project. You sound a lot like me, which means very soon, you'll have changed your mind about as often as you visit this forum!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yeah... Right now I'm looking at going stock. So it sounds like the 600 would be a good one for me. I like most other men are cheap, but I can admit it


I think I'm going to leave the engine mostly stock. If I were going to order an intake manifold, would one like this be the correct one to get?

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/hm-performance/7121.html

Thanks, Mike
 

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FFR Craftsman
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Yes, that's the one I have too. Don't try to use EBAY on this because you'll likely end up spending about the same except you have no control over the way it's shipped sometimes. In my case, it was true, it was "never used" but the box was long gone and when it arrived, it looked pretty crappy IMO, considering I paid almost what you showed in your link. :( The person shipping it didn't pack it well so was it shifted inside the box, it tore up the box pretty good and have some deep scratches along some of the mating faces but nothing chipped off. Thank god for gaskets.

BTW: here's the link to the carb I'm selling:
http://www.ffcars.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001859
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I like it and it looks very clean, OWWW you got some Stickers too... Sweet!

How much with would it be for you to ship to seattle?

Thanks
 
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