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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Real dynos can be quite sobering!

This was actually done last December, but with the talk lately of all the "computer dynos", and the monster numbers floating around, here's what you really get, using a suffocating "Torquer II" intake. The Victor Jr. that came on this engine would have really helped it, but no way it was going under the hood, with that intake. The intake change probably cost 30-50 HP in my opinion.

Here's what it looks like hooked up to a Superflo water-brake dyno:



As you can see below, the best HP number is roughly 475 HP at 5,600 RPM. However, the engine makes over 400 lb/ft of torque from who-knows-where (it was making 470 lb/ft at the starting point of 3,500 rpm) all the way to 5,900 peaking at 496.4 lb/ft at 4,500.



This engine is still one of the best HP bargains out there and it should be quite fun, if this car actually tops out at 2,300 lbs or so. ;)

I will hopefully be ready to ride the go-cart within the next couple of weeks. I will keep you informed :D :D

td
 

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Very interesting. I was wondering if you had any break in time or if this was dynoed while it was still tight. Did the dyno shop offer any tuning tips or insight as the motor loosens up? 94% volumetric efficiency is very good for a natural aspirated motor! Thanks, Jon.
 

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Wow.......thanks ! I had read that the 535 hp motor was under rated really pumped out about 560 hp !!

We are using the same set up as you......and I have been curious about the real numbers with the TorquerII !!

Thanks again !!

I wonder what the rear wheel hp will be ???
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Jon,

AER built the engine for Ford. They had a card on there that stated it was ran for 20 minutes at 200 degrees, in their plant. I'm sure that was with the natural gas system most large builders use for run-in. Other than that, it had no "break-in". We made about 6 pulls, as well as some extended periods at low, loaded rpms, experimenting with jets and timing, while watching the exhause temps. He didn't offer any suggestions regarding these settings after the motor "loosened up". He has a very small shop that has a large group of dirt track racers that use his services frequently.

I used this same guy 4 years ago when I built a 302 c.i., '69 Camaro Z-28 engine. We went through all the same processes and I never touched the timing or carb again, once the engine was installed in the car - and it was modified over stock substantially. Made the whole thing well worth the $300 it cost for 1/2 a day's work - rather than fighting the noise and tuning problems of mulitple full acceleration passes on the street.

I don't know how that relates to rear-wheel HP, but I may some day find out.

td
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
CBM,

Believe it or not, there was a small card attached with the other paperwork that stated all the specifications along with the following: "HP - 560 at 6,100 RPM"

As usual, I took that with a grain of salt.

HOWEVER, it is my understanding that they are now shipping the latest generation "super cobra jet" heads with these engines,(I received this engine LAST summer) and they are supposedly worth 40-50 more HP. On the other hand the Torquer II intake is suffocating this engine over 5,500 rpm, in my opinion - and everyone is apparently still going to have to deal with that, unless you want to run a pro-stock style hood scoop...and that just ain't for me, on the street.

td
td
 

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Interesting !! We got our motor new last summer also (from Jegs I believe)......but had a lot of trouble getting intake gaskets that fit !

A guy told us that we had gotten lucky and recieved one with a set of large port heads.....but I don't know if he knew what he was talking about ! We ended up using the fel-pro's that fit the 460/514 SCJ engines !!

It says (oops)Motorsports Cobra Jet on the front and back of the heads ??? !!I'll have to look but I think our motor was assembled back in 2001 !

[ July 01, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: CBM ]
 

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I know that all chassis dynos are not created the same.. Does it follow that all engine dynos are not the same.

Also, how much effect does the dyno operator have on these things...

Not flaming just asking questions.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
CBM,

Mine was assembled one month before it was shipped to me. I doubt seriously they have anything still in stock that was built back in 2001.

Rich Cave, if you're reading this can you lead these guys to the site about the new heads? I have already forgotton how to tell them apart.

Mikiec,

No doubt there will be differences between various dynos, especially the 5-6 year old Super-Flo, AND especially when there are other instruments involved, such as baromaters, temperature gauges, etc. A miss of a few inches of barometric pressure could make pretty dramatic differences. However, I don't think the operator has a whole lot to do with the final results, as all the perimeters are set and the computer takes over and handles the throttle, load, etc. I just posted this thread to prove a point - this engine (the one in my garage) ain't gonna make 535 HP, with this intake manifold, unless some more drastic mods are done internally. Yet, in my opinion, it's still a bargain for the price.

Bottom line: I've been around bike racing, boat racing, car racing for many years. It has never ceased to amaze me how many times I've seen 400 honest HP out-run 550 "imaginary" HP. Keep in mind, most racers are like fishermen when it comes to tall tales. Heck, a ride for the common guy in a 2300 lb car with 400 HP and he will believe it's 700 hp in a heartbeat - and then go tell all his friends that it is.............td
 

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Hey Guys - My 514 has the SCJ heads. Its part number was M-6007-D514. The M-6007-C514 and earlier model numbers have the regular Cobrajet heads.

I still think Ford's HP numbers are accurate with the intake and carb they suggest (Victor Jr. and a 1050 Demon), but we are definitly losing at least 50 HP with the TorkerII and an 850 Demon.

Does anyone know of a dual carb intake for these motors that will fit our cars?

Rich Cave

PS - Tommy I'll be around tonight, if its not raining, do you want a ride?
 

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Rich-

Blue Thunder makes a dual quad manifold for the BBF

2FAST
 

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Thanks 2FAST - I'll check into it.

Rich
 

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Here are the new SCJ heads. Note the huge intake ports.





All of the data on these heads suggests that you'll need to flycut the pistons underneath the intake valve, due to the valve's relocated position. This, apparently, is only a factor for cams with huge amounts of lift. My cam (cammotion custom ground) specs out at .588" lift on the intake (232 degrees duration/112 degree lobe center on a 108 degree centerline) and the valve didn't even come close to hitting the piston. I did the play-doh trick (I put about 3/16" thick on the intake valve), and it didn't even make a dent.

As another oh-by-the-way, the pushrod length required, for use with the crane hyd roller lifters was 8.2" intake and 8.5" exhaust.
 

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My hydraulic roller cam is .644/.644 lift and 244/254 deg duration @ .050 lift

2FAST
 

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wow, that is very interesting Tommy.
I started my engine on saturday (FMS460 with SJC heads).
What a great moment! :)
Go kart next week-end.
Thank you for sharing those info.
Cyril
 

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Rear wheel horsepower is usually 80% of engine horsepower. Although I saw one source that said 83%. But more importantly, in my opinion, the torque! Gonna pull Hard! Its gonna be great. Glen
 
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