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Discussion Starter #41
Are you not worried about the fuel line running that close to the exhausts?
The only place where the fuel line will run close to the exhaust is where it is the metal tube. Its not that close and I do plan to run some heat shielding around the metal tube.
 

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A little research on this forum would have been wise. You can get reasonably priced steel mounts for the Sanden compressor from Alan Grove. They are beautifully TIG welded. That's what I'm using. Belt alignment is critical. A little bit off and you'll be tossing the belt.

LS

I'll suspect that the low mount alternator that works is off the Cadillac CTS, but the mount would need to be spaced forward, for harmonic balancers other than the Corvette or CTS. It's often recommended to switch to the Corvette balancer, but that also affects the water pump. Here's a link that lists all the parts in the CTS drive kit. The pulleys are 3/4" closer to the motor, compared to a Camaro and 1-1/2" closer than a truck motor's pulley's.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19299070/10002/-1


I've never read about other builders having to alter the frame to mount accessories. Curved tubes may solve the clearance issue, but the don't have the strength of a straight tube, so the frame has now been weakened. The frame is a truss design that depends on the straight tubes to withstand compression or tension forces. Ideally, you would avoid the interference with two straight tubes that maintain the truss. Notice how the tube ends each have one common contact point.

See post #65.
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/120-factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/454977-cardifkid-s-33-build-706-a-2.html

I resorted to a high mount alternator on my '37, but the FFR '33 probably doesn't have enough hood height. I made this aluminum mount myself. I could have made it a least an inch lower.

 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
A little research on this forum would have been wise. You can get reasonably priced steel mounts for the Sanden compressor from Alan Grove. They are beautifully TIG welded. That's what I'm using. Belt alignment is critical. A little bit off and you'll be tossing the belt.

LS

I'll suspect that the low mount alternator that works is off the Cadillac CTS, but the mount would need to be spaced forward, for harmonic balancers other than the Corvette or CTS. It's often recommended to switch to the Corvette balancer, but that also affects the water pump. Here's a link that lists all the parts in the CTS drive kit. The pulleys are 3/4" closer to the motor, compared to a Camaro and 1-1/2" closer than a truck motor's pulley's.

Chevy 19299070: F-Body Style Accessory Drive System | JEGS


I've never read about other builders having to alter the frame to mount accessories. Curved tubes may solve the clearance issue, but the don't have the strength of a straight tube, so the frame has now been weakened. The frame is a truss design that depends on the straight tubes to withstand compression or tension forces. Ideally, you would avoid the interference with two straight tubes that maintain the truss. Notice how the tube ends each have one common contact point.

See post #65.
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/120-factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/454977-cardifkid-s-33-build-706-a-2.html

I resorted to a high mount alternator on my '37, but the FFR '33 probably doesn't have enough hood height. I made this aluminum mount myself. I could have made it a least an inch lower.


From the measurements I took the Alan Grove mount and Sanden 508 would still contact the frame. There are measurements on the Alan Grove site so measure from your crank to the frame and you'll see. I don't think the CTS would work either because it is not the pulley that interferes it is the housing of the alternator. Also I prefer the look of the low mount accesories. Cardifkid's solution is awesome but I lack the machining capabilities he has and also wanted to use a Sanden compressor because that is what Vintage air recommends with the kit and already has the correct fittings. My friend who came up with the solution has a degree in mechanical engineering and has built and raced many cars, so I'm not worried at all running like this.
 

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From the measurements I took the Alan Grove mount and Sanden 508 would still contact the frame. There are measurements on the Alan Grove site so measure from your crank to the frame and you'll see. I don't think the CTS would work either because it is not the pulley that interferes it is the housing of the alternator. Also I prefer the look of the low mount accesories. Cardifkid's solution is awesome but I lack the machining capabilities he has and also wanted to use a Sanden compressor because that is what Vintage air recommends with the kit and already has the correct fittings. My friend who came up with the solution has a degree in mechanical engineering and has built and raced many cars, so I'm not worried at all running like this.
The CTS alternator only measures 5 inches in diameter. That's likely to be quite a bit smaller than the alternator you're using. The other issue is the Camaro belt position is 3/4" further forward than the Corvette/CTS/GTO and all GM crate LS engines. That means that the entire alternator is moved back by 3/4", not just the belt. Same goes for the AC compressor.

I linked the Alan Grove web site because he offers Sanden compressor mounts that fit any LS motor For $175. I bought mine 3 years ago. It was the first that he made with the Corvette belt spacing. He offered mounts for Camaro or truck spacing years before that.

If your friend is a mechanical engineer like I am, he needs a refresher course. Bent tubes will bend when forces of tension or compression are applied. His solution was totally wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
The CTS alternator only measures 5 inches in diameter. That's likely to be quite a bit smaller than the alternator you're using. The other issue is the Camaro belt position is 3/4" further forward than the Corvette/CTS/GTO and all GM crate LS engines. That means that the entire alternator is moved back by 3/4", not just the belt. Same goes for the AC compressor.

I linked the Alan Grove web site because he offers Sanden compressor mounts that fit any LS motor For $175. I bought mine 3 years ago. It was the first that he made with the Corvette belt spacing. He offered mounts for Camaro or truck spacing years before that.

If your friend is a mechanical engineer like I am, he needs a refresher course. Bent tubes will bend when forces of tension or compression are applied. His solution was totally wrong.

I preferred your comment on the video: "I got my mechanical engineering degree in 1981. The frame mod is stupid."
Could you do me a favour from now on; if your going to comment on the video and on the forum can you just post the same comment? That way I can copy and paste my reply to both. As you can see from the frame modification, I like to take the fast stupid way of getting things done. Unfortunately I'm too stupid to have looked into getting an Alan Grove bracket, would have fit right in:






 

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Discussion Starter #51
Incase anyone is using this thread in the future for reference, I was being sarcastic. If the measurements on the Alan Grove website are correct(why wouldn't they be?) then that bracket and a Sanden 508 compressor will not fit inside of the frame on a F5R 33 with and LS.

But hey, don't take it from the me, the guy building a F5R 33 with a LS. Take it from the guy who built a car that is kinda similar with a LS, he is an engineer after all!
 

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Hey S13... I kinda get where you're coming from......daveS53 says that he's "read enough about the FFR'33 on this forum to eliminate it from consideration" and he is quite entitled to say this. He has also posted 313 times on this forum about a car that he doesn't want to own and again his input is appreciated. Readers will weigh it up. Keep posting your videos here, I,m enjoying the "To and Fro" they generate.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Hey S13... I kinda get where you're coming from......daveS53 says that he's "read enough about the FFR'33 on this forum to eliminate it from consideration" and he is quite entitled to say this. He has also posted 313 times on this forum about a car that he doesn't want to own and again his input is appreciated. Readers will weigh it up. Keep posting your videos here, I,m enjoying the "To and Fro" they generate.
Thanks! If someone can show me a picture of an Alan Grove bracket with a Sanden 508 on a LS1 in an unmodified Factory Five 33 frame then I will gladly admit I am wrong. The whole point of these videos was to contribute to the type of videos I like to watch as part of my research before starting a project. I want to show people what is needed to build what I imagine will only become a more popular kit/engine combo. Not trying to get people to unnecessarily cut up their frames. The CTS alternator might work, if it does it would be very, very close. I am not going to spend a bunch of money on something that might work and then I still have to figure something out for the AC on the other side. I think the best solution I have seen for the AC is the one Cardifkid built. Maybe he should consider selling that as a kit. I would rather pay $500 for a kit with a bracket like his and whatever compressor he used then cut up the frame but unfortunately that is not an option. At the end of the day I am going to be driving this car on the street every now and then, not taking it to the Baja 1000 so I am not worried about having a bent tube on a 0.070" wall 1" tube frame brace.
 

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All I can say is that I hope your frame mod works out. I would have looked for a better solution. I'm not surprised that most readers don't understand how a truss works, but you don't need to be an engineer to do a google search and get a basic understanding.

Building your own compressor mounting bracket that aligns the pulley parallel to the balancer with the belt properly aligned is probably beyond the skills of most kit car builders. Until yours is tested, I wouldn't assume that it works well. If you really wanted to provide fellow builders with better info, you'd at least post what belt tensioner was used and the the belt length.

I measured my Alan Grove compressor mount and got about 10-3/4" to the outer edge of the pulley. There is a mounting lug that protrudes more, but that could be cut off. I never said that it would work in an FFR '33, but it's certainly worth a try.

I also did a search for "alternator" on this website and found this thread with a number of helpful responses.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/120-factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/570889-ls3-alternator-c-compressor.html

It would be easy to overlook the significance of post #7, but it led me to the March website where they offer a drive without power steering for $785 that includes the alternator, Corvette water pump and Sanden style compressor for $785. It does require the Corvette balancer ($130). The response claims that this low mount drive works with no problems, but it still has to be very tight.

March Performance - Chevy LS : Narrow Mount
 

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No link to it that I have. do a search on firewall trimming or using my name, if I remember the post was titled " I wish I had found this sooner" or something to that effect.
Found it here: /forums/120-factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/268114-i-found-too-late.html

(sorry can't post real link - too few posts over here, lol)
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Found it here: /forums/120-factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/268114-i-found-too-late.html

(sorry can't post real link - too few posts over here, lol)
Awesome, thanks! Ill be sure to do that.


Also here is the new video.
 

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Er, WHAT?!?

Where did you learn about having to swap brakes side-to-side? I didn't see anything in manual about that, and in one manual pic those old mounts you cut off are still on the installed rear.

Thanks for pointing this out.. I had no idea. I must have missed something somewhere. Don't remember hearing about this in build threads either..
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Er, WHAT?!?

Where did you learn about having to swap brakes side-to-side? I didn't see anything in manual about that, and in one manual pic those old mounts you cut off are still on the installed rear.

Thanks for pointing this out.. I had no idea. I must have missed something somewhere. Don't remember hearing about this in build threads either..
You do not have to do it this way. It just makes it a bit cleaner and because i had to order brake lines anyways, I thought why not?
 

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Thanks, I haven't put much thought yet into brake lines, but I assumed there would be one flex line to rear end (preferably as low as possible on chassis), then t junction and hard line attached along the rear to the calipers.
 

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Thanks, I haven't put much thought yet into brake lines, but I assumed there would be one flex line to rear end (preferably as low as possible on chassis), then t junction and hard line attached along the rear to the calipers.
That is sometimes the case. The disadvantage to having a single flex hose in the center and hard lines running to the calipers, is the calipers can't be removed without disconnecting the hard lines and later bleeding the system. It also requires clamping the lines along the length of the axle housing and a tricky bend at the caliper.

I would always use a flex line at each caliper.
 
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