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Discussion Starter #141
By adjusting the spring collars on the coilovers. When you install the coilovers, adjust the collars so the springs are just held tight with the suspension hanging. The spring should be captured but not compressed. Then, once you have basically everything on the chassis and sitting on the ground with the suspension compressed, measure the distance from the chassis rails to the floor. Turn the collars exactly the same number of turns for the front pair and the rear pair to get to the desired height. Initially, little over 4-inches in the back and just under 4-inches in the front is a good starting point. It will settle some during the first few hundred miles.


Perfect. Thanks for the guidance!


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Discussion Starter #142
Edwardb, two questions. Do you have the F5 instructions for the front spindles? They are not online and I think torque values are important. :) And what is the model number of the Moog tie rod ends you used for the Power Steering rack? Thanks.


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Edwardb, two questions. Do you have the F5 instructions for the front spindles? They are not online and I think torque values are important. :) And what is the model number of the Moog tie rod ends you used for the Power Steering rack? Thanks.
Sounds like maybe you have the base kit manual vs. the complete kit manual? Because the FF 2-piece spindle installation is covered in the complete kit version. From the manual:

The spindles are marked DSS (Driver Side Spindle) and PSS (Passenger Side Spindle). These refer to the way they are mounted on the FFR Hot Rod which is rear steer. The FFR Coupe uses these as Front steer so they are mounted opposite, The DSS spindle is mounted on the right side and the PSS spindle is mounted on the left side.

Lower ball joint: Place the spacer under the castle nut to ensure that the cotter pin is at the correct height. Torque to 106-149Nm (80-110 lbft) and install the cotter pin.

Attach the upper ball joint to the spindle and torque to 75 ft-lbs and install the cotter pin.

Bolt the steering arms to the spindles so the tie rod end will mount from the bottom (the taper on the hole will open out toward the bottom) and the kink in the arm angles the arm outward toward the rotor. Torque to 60 ftlbs.

For the tie rod ends, I use Moog ES2150RL and 9.13101G Energy Suspension dust boots. Note these are not unique to power steering and the change is optional. I just like these parts better. The kit supplied tie rod ends work and are for either manual or power steering.
 

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Discussion Starter #144
Sounds like maybe you have the base kit manual vs. the complete kit manual? Because the FF 2-piece spindle installation is covered in the complete kit version. From the manual:

The spindles are marked DSS (Driver Side Spindle) and PSS (Passenger Side Spindle). These refer to the way they are mounted on the FFR Hot Rod which is rear steer. The FFR Coupe uses these as Front steer so they are mounted opposite, The DSS spindle is mounted on the right side and the PSS spindle is mounted on the left side.

Lower ball joint: Place the spacer under the castle nut to ensure that the cotter pin is at the correct height. Torque to 106-149Nm (80-110 lbft) and install the cotter pin.

Attach the upper ball joint to the spindle and torque to 75 ft-lbs and install the cotter pin.

Bolt the steering arms to the spindles so the tie rod end will mount from the bottom (the taper on the hole will open out toward the bottom) and the kink in the arm angles the arm outward toward the rotor. Torque to 60 ftlbs.

For the tie rod ends, I use Moog ES2150RL and 9.13101G Energy Suspension dust boots. Note these are not unique to power steering and the change is optional. I just like these parts better. The kit supplied tie rod ends work and are for either manual or power steering.


Thank you, that helps a ton. Yes, I have the base manual.


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Discussion Starter #145
I love receiving new packages, and this is no exception. Front Spindles and hubs with the mounting package, radiator, and steering rack adaptor arrived today. So I’ll start with the Front spindles.
But before that is the Passenger Side lower Ball Joint castle nut. One of them was deformed from F5 (one of the teeth was turned slightly inward), and when it would start to spin onto the ball joint thread, it would start cutting into the bolt. If I were to continue tightening, this could cause a lot of issues. So I go in search of replacements. After I found a smaller (and not acceptable) replacement at one hardware store, I went to Fastenal, a fastener supply house very close to work, and ordered a replacement, which came the next day. After verifying it is an exact replacement, I brought it home to ‘dry-fit’ it, and it’s perfect.






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Discussion Starter #146
And there’s the Factory 5 Spindles. I see immediately there is some prep work to do with the parts.
First thing I can see right off is the front hubs. They have the ABS Sensor rings installed on them, which I don’t need and will interfere with the second item, applying POR-15.
How to get the rings off...... well, the first method that comes to mind is using a pulley puller tool. I used a piece of metal across the hub bearing pieces, and applied the tool, and, voila! The rings come right off. You’d better not want to use them again, because they become bent in the process.
Thank God no replacement of wheel studs is needed for the front.
I use the POR-15 Cleaner/Degreaser to clean the surface I am going to paint, and even though I probably should, I skip the Metal Prep step for such a small metal part.
Application of POR-15 coating is straightforward...... more work later.
















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Discussion Starter #147 (Edited)
Thanks to Edwardb’s advice and instructions, I’ve ordered the Moog tie rod ends on Prime, so Friday delivery. For now I can cinch down the spindles.
The lower ball joint Castle nuts go on just fine, and I cinch them to around 104 ft/lbs.... and turn them just enough to get the pin hole to line up in between the teeth. In order to hold the spindle while I turn the wrench I have to use a backup wrench on the spindle, and I use a large flat-jaw Monkey Wrench with a cloth on it to avoid scratching the spindle as the backup wrench. Install Cotter pins ... and good.
The Upper ball joint Castle Nuts prove to be more challenging. Not only do they have a really awkward wrench angle, but they easily advance past the point that the cotter pin can mate up with the teeth. I’ll take a page out or Edwardb’s book, and grab a couple washers at the hardware store.
The steering arm bolts go right together, although I almost didn’t read the related installation instructions closely enough and almost had them pointed the wrong way. That was a close one! Wasn’t the first time, may not be the last. Have it in correctly now, with the taper opening downward.
Mocked up the hub, I’m not going to install that but permanently until I get the Upper ball joint done, and maybe the tire temp-mounted. I think it will be easier that way.


















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Discussion Starter #148
It didn’t take me very long to change out the Steering Rack Adaptor for the correct one, and get the steering column in place. I had to remove the DS mounting bolt for the PS rack in order to drop the rack slightly and finagle the lower shaft into place. Understanding that the steering column will need to be disconnected again in order to get the Coyote engine in means that instead of cinching it down, I leave the nut on the bolt in the adaptor finger-tight, and the hex-screws in the column just making contact.

I don’t put the steering wheel on because I have been informed that my daughter will be mad if I do that part without her, even if she has homework to do. I can hold off on that.

I’m almost to the point where I’m going to have to pull out the Breeze instructions for the PS rack.








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Discussion Starter #149
These bolts came with the Spindle kit ..... any clue what they are? There are four of them, seemingly two for each side.




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Discussion Starter #150
Also, I have this leftover hardware from the IRS bags .... I’m not missing anything, I’m pretty sure they are extras ..... hopefully I’m not wrong.






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Discussion Starter #151
Stopped by the hardware store and picked up 2 washers. HD did not have 9/16ths washers, so I settled for M14. They did the trick and spaced the upper castle nuts down to mate with the cotter pins. Spindle mounting is complete, tie rod ends are due tomorrow and I will get a second coat of POR-15 on the hubs so we can torque those down.




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Discussion Starter #152
I read in a thread that the rear UCAs should have a washer under the head of the bolt that connects the assembly to the knuckle, but none came with the kit and the instructions did not show one. Is this something I should buy and install?






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I'd recommend calling Factory Five about that IRS washer. There was a technical upgrade a year or so after the current version IRS was released in 2015. Involved a slightly different sleeve in the rod end and the large washer. Important enough that they sent parts and instructions to all customers including me. There was never a reason given for the change. I assumed it was safety related, e.g. to keep the rod end from having any chance to become disconnected. But that's just a guess. I too have noticed it's not in the instructions. Maybe they made some other change or have decided it's not needed. By all means address is now. Best not to mess with any of that after it's completed and aligned.

I hope that's a hardened washer you added under the upper ball joint mount. Plain washers are typically pretty soft.
 

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Discussion Starter #154
I'd recommend calling Factory Five about that IRS washer. There was a technical upgrade a year or so after the current version IRS was released in 2015. Involved a slightly different sleeve in the rod end and the large washer. Important enough that they sent parts and instructions to all customers including me. There was never a reason given for the change. I assumed it was safety related, e.g. to keep the rod end from having any chance to become disconnected. But that's just a guess. I too have noticed it's not in the instructions. Maybe they made some other change or have decided it's not needed. By all means address is now. Best not to mess with any of that after it's completed and aligned.

I hope that's a hardened washer you added under the upper ball joint mount. Plain washers are typically pretty soft.


Will do. (Contact F5)


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Discussion Starter #155
Installing the Steering Rod Ends proved to be the most strenuous and tedious task to date. My speculation is that the painting of the thread caused the thread to ‘tighten’ after the beginning, but also, there seemed to be a noticeable spot just after starting the rod that it seemed to tighten. After getting the tip of the thread into the bolt cavity, it seemed to loosen up, but it took a long time and my not-so-young-anymore body had to pause several times to regain my breath.

I used a pair of Vise-grips as a backup wrench with a few added feet of lever, some EMT conduit braced against the floor, and quite a bit of elbow grease to tighten the rod ends into place.

Rod ends in place, ready to install steering wheel. Fuel Pak delivery was delayed so no work on that for now.















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Installing the Steering Rod Ends proved to be the most strenuous and tedious task to date. My speculation is that the painting of the thread caused the thread to ‘tighten’ after the beginning...
Sorry Isaac but when you met that much resistance assembling the inner and outer tie rods it should have been a clue that something was wrong. I think you'll find that the difficulty is because you're using parts that are not compatible with one another. As I recall you mentioned something earlier about using the Moog tie rod ends recommended by Paul. That would be good EXCEPT you have a SN95 steering rack which uses metric M14-1.5 threads while the Fox model tie rod ends you're attempting to use have 9/16-18 threads. Close, but obviously not a match. Hopefully you can disassemble it and salvage the inners by cleaning up the threads with a die then go back with the proper outer ends.

Good luck,
Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #157 (Edited)
Sorry Isaac but when you met that much resistance assembling the inner and outer tie rods it should have been a clue that something was wrong. I think you'll find that the difficulty is because you're using parts that are not compatible with one another. As I recall you mentioned something earlier about using the Moog tie rod ends recommended by Paul. That would be good EXCEPT you have a SN95 steering rack which uses metric M14-1.5 threads while the Fox model tie rod ends you're attempting to use have 9/16-18 threads. Close, but obviously not a match. Hopefully you can disassemble it and salvage the inners by cleaning up the threads with a die then go back with the proper outer ends.

Good luck,
Jeff


I suppose it should have been a clue. It fooled me that the matching jam nut threaded all the way on without issue. I’m not sure I see an issue with leaving it, since the thread is so close and theoretically it’s never moving?


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I suppose it should have been a clue. It fooled me that the matching jam nut threaded all the way on without issue. I’m not sure I see an issue with leaving it, since the thread is so close and theoretically it’s never moving?
I thought something was wrong when you described the installation. Shouldn't ever have to force things like that. Jeff had the explanation. Never moving? Not exactly. Very unlikely your current location is even close for front end alignment. You won't know until later. Then possibly would need to be adjusted during future alignments. Time will make it even harder to turn. Better to correct it now IMO.

Also BTW, those flats on on the inner tie rod to keep it from turning work better with a large adjustable wrench. I'd recommend leaving the vice grips in the toolbox except in an emergency when nothing else works. They hold (mostly) but also tear things up.
 

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Discussion Starter #159
I thought something was wrong when you described the installation. Shouldn't ever have to force things like that. Jeff had the explanation. Never moving? Not exactly. Very unlikely your current location is even close for front end alignment. You won't know until later. Then possibly would need to be adjusted during future alignments. Time will make it even harder to turn. Better to correct it now IMO.



Also BTW, those flats on on the inner tie rod to keep it from turning work better with a large adjustable wrench. I'd recommend leaving the vice grips in the toolbox except in an emergency when nothing else works. They hold (mostly) but also tear things up.


Copy that .... I’ll see about doing some research into the correct rod ends..... and I shouldn’t need the Vise-Grips with the correct thread size on the ends.

Halfway thinking of just replacing the inner rod ends to avoid unthreading the ones I have on there .... ugh.....


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I’m not sure I see an issue with leaving it, since the thread is so close and theoretically it’s never moving?
Unless you happened on to a million to one chance of achieving the proper length when you screwed it all together it WILL have to move when the toe is set during alignment as Paul said. Speaking of toe; looking at your photos it appears that you have run the outers the entire length of the inner threads yet it seems you are still toed out. That's the other thing with the SN95 racks---besides being threaded differently the inner tie rods are also longer which may mean that you won't be able reach the desired toe setting. You may have wondered when I questioned your choice of the SN95 rack in an earlier post...now you know why.

Jeff
 
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