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Discussion Starter #301
Two wiring questions for the senior builders. I’m used to high voltage electrical and can read schematics just fine, and the F5 diagrams are leaving me wanting.

First question is on the Vintage GPS gauge set. The instructions show a gauge set with a separate two-wire plug for the gauge backlighting on each gauge, and the Gauge set that I received only has the 3-wire connector with the red-white-black wires. The one exception is the oil temp gauge which I ordered from F5 in addition to the Vintage Gauge set. It has the separate 2-wire harness. As a result, the multi-feed dimmer harness that I have only feeds the oil temp gauge. The result is that I can dim the oil temp gauge but the rest of the gauges are always on suuuuuper bright, significantly brighter than the oil temp gauge, and they don’t dim with the Headlight Switch turning. Is there a solution for this? I don’t think I’m missing anything, but do I go on like this forever? I feel like it’s kind of cobbled together and mismatched, and I want it to be right.

I took one pic of the dash in the dark to show the difference in brightness. The oil temp gauge, which I feel is the only one operating correctly, is the the upper middle gauge in the center cluster.



The second issue is the hazard lights. Call me ignorant on this one. In order to actuate the lights, do I essentially just need to take the pink ‘hazards’ wire in the dash harness to ground? I may have just answered my own question, and I will test that on my own later today. Input appreciated on both.


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I've used those Vintage gauges multiple times, and first I've heard/seen there not being separate 2-wire connectors for the gauge backlighting. Seems like something has changed and I can't explain it. The gauges I've used required the inverter you're describing for the backlighting. The electroluminscent backlighting required AC, so wouldn't light if DC were used like it seems you're doing by putting the lighting +12V through the 3-wire harness. The needles are LED and are powered through the 3-wire harness. Can't explain it. First call to Factory Five, and likely second will be to Speedhut.

For the hazards, if you ground that pink wire you'll pop the fuse. So no, that's not correct. That wire is a battery powered +12V (e.g. hot all the time) and is alternately switched to the turn signals on four corners through the double pole switch shown on the RF schematic.
 

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Discussion Starter #303
Copy, thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I’ll post a pic too, for you to check it out.


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Discussion Starter #304
Called Factory Five and evidently the gauge set has been redesigned recently enough that the Engineering Team at F5 hadn’t gotten wind of it. The new ones are LED backlit by the car’s 12V and don’t have the black 2-wire inverter-powered Harness or connectors. Just the 3-wire black-white-red Power Harness. They are having Speedhut ship me a Oil Temp gauge that matches, but they don’t have enough info to tell me why the gauges don’t dim with the Headlight Switch and are super bright. They will be getting back to me with updated info.


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Hi Isaac,

I can tell you exactly why the LED backlighting does not dim via the headlight switch. It is because the LEDs don't draw anywhere near as much current as conventional incandescent globe backlighting does. The roadster's dimmer circuit consists of a rheostat in series with the back lighting circuit. This rheostat is used to drop the voltage and hence reduce the brightness of the globes in the back lighting circuit. Using ohm's law, the more current that you pass through the rheostat the more that the voltage will be dropped. The current drawn by the LEDs is so negligible that there is virtually no voltage drop across the rheostat and therefore no dimming.
Hope that make sense.
One solution is to add a dummy load in parallel with the backlighting circuit. You could use a resistor or maybe a 5 to 10 watt globe. I really don't like the solution as it is both in efficient and generates a reasonable amount of heat that needs to be dissipated somewhere.
A simple solution is to experiment with fixed value 5 watt resistors until you find one that gives adequate dimming. you could install a three position toggle switch that would give you 3 levels of dimming.
PM me if you need help.

Cheers,
Nigel in South Oz

Although you might be frustrated at the moment, I think the change to LEDs will be a blessing as inverters can give trouble.
 

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Called Factory Five and evidently the gauge set has been redesigned recently enough that the Engineering Team at F5 hadn’t gotten wind of it. The new ones are LED backlit by the car’s 12V and don’t have the black 2-wire inverter-powered Harness or connectors. Just the 3-wire black-white-red Power Harness. They are having Speedhut ship me a Oil Temp gauge that matches, but they don’t have enough info to tell me why the gauges don’t dim with the Headlight Switch and are super bright. They will be getting back to me with updated info.
Wow, interesting stuff. Factory Five didn't know about the change, and after poking around a bit on Speedhut's website, nothing mentioned there either. All the instructions still show the inverter setup. It should be possible to have a dimmer on the LED backlighting. DD's have been using LED's that dim in instrument clusters for years. (Used to work for one of the world's largest suppliers...) But Nigel is right. The dimmer knob on the Delco style headlight switch is definitely old school and is varying voltage in a range for incandescent bulbs. The LED's probably stay lit all the way down to the lowest setting, then just switch off. Will be interesting to see what Speedhut comes up with. I can't believe they would just write off having dimmable backlighting. Auto Meter has a module made for this. https://www.autometer.com/led-lighting-dimmer.html. Suspect it would work. But better to see what Speedhut recommends. Obviously will be of interest to many builders going forward since Speedhut gauges are frequently selected for these builds.
 

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It certainly does seem that speedhut's website hasn't kept up with their offerings. Paul's Autometer find is a likely solution. Basically an adjustable voltage regulator such as the LM317t will give you what is needed. there are online sellers who sell these already built up on a PCB with the necessary support electronics.
Isaac, you mentioned that the gauges were very bright. Perhaps don't run the backlighting until you get a response from speedhut. I would hazard a guess that they are designed to have a regulator installed. Most regulators even when turned on fully usually drop a couple of volts across the circuit. Therefore the gauges may be designed to only run on circa 10 volts.

Cheers Nigel in South Oz
 

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Discussion Starter #308
Hi Isaac,

I can tell you exactly why the LED backlighting does not dim via the headlight switch. It is because the LEDs don't draw anywhere near as much current as conventional incandescent globe backlighting does. The roadster's dimmer circuit consists of a rheostat in series with the back lighting circuit. This rheostat is used to drop the voltage and hence reduce the brightness of the globes in the back lighting circuit. Using ohm's law, the more current that you pass through the rheostat the more that the voltage will be dropped. The current drawn by the LEDs is so negligible that there is virtually no voltage drop across the rheostat and therefore no dimming.
Hope that make sense.
One solution is to add a dummy load in parallel with the backlighting circuit. You could use a resistor or maybe a 5 to 10 watt globe. I really don't like the solution as it is both in efficient and generates a reasonable amount of heat that needs to be dissipated somewhere.
A simple solution is to experiment with fixed value 5 watt resistors until you find one that gives adequate dimming. you could install a three position toggle switch that would give you 3 levels of dimming.
PM me if you need help.

Cheers,
Nigel in South Oz

Although you might be frustrated at the moment, I think the change to LEDs will be a blessing as inverters can give trouble.


I do understand Ohms law, being an electrician, so I’m very familiar with the mathematical relationship that voltage, amperage and resistant have. The issue you describe is exactly like we used to have with LED lamps in residential fixtures, so I grasp that no problem. I share your dim (pun) view of the additional load solution you mentioned. I will wait until F5 gets back with me, and I won’t try to fire up the lights until I get word from either them or Speedhut. Im not in a huge hurry at this point.... I have other portions of the build I’m working on.


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Discussion Starter #309
After calls to Factory Five, they went above and beyond the call of duty (in my opinion) and shipped me a new Oil Temp gauge minus the old(?) two-wire connector. I received that yesterday and will be replacing that one this weekend. Will also have more pictures of my dash back wiring.

I ordered my fuel pressure gauge from Speedhut, and contacted them to make sure that gauge also has the new LED backlight. I almost wish I had that in hand now, so I could install the pressure sender in the fuel line and be done with that.

More this weekend.


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Discussion Starter #310 (Edited)
The Engine Cooling system and the Power Steering systems have taken a back seat, but with the wiring momentarily stalling while waiting on parts, time to return to those.

Cooling first. Taking edwardb’s advice I ordered the Moroso Coyote expansion tank, and followed his basic support method, but I’ll get to that a little later.

Earlier in the build I went ahead and installed the radiator complete with hinges upper support..... may have been a little premature there. In order to have good access to install the cooling and power steering systems, I decide to de-mount the radiator. I also have to complete the radiator assembly with the additional parts I ordered.

Initially I didn’t like the design of the Breeze radiator shroud due to the limited coil surface area the fan cutout covers. Having done HVAC for 8 years before I did electrical, I know that limiting the coil surface reduces air flow over the coil eliminating optimal heat transfer and creating hot spots fairly close to cool spots and stressing the metal. Aluminum is fragile as it is. However, when you consider the thousands or hundreds of thousand of radiators on the road without widespread issue, you start to reconsider idealism versus pragmatism.

In a nutshell, I changed my mind and ordered the Breeze radiator support. I also ordered a Power Steering Cooler to mount on the underside of the radiator shroud.



After mocking up the shroud, cooler, and fan, I decide to mount the cooler under the shroud as this seems to be the only spot that hot air will not be flowing over the cooler. Due to the profile of the body and frame, if anything hits it, there’s more serious issues I will have to deal with.





After assembling we temp it in.... will take it back out again in a minute.





While the radiator is in place I take the time to piece together the tubing and mock up the expansion tank so that after I’m done with the Power Steering assembly I can just put all the pieces together.

The upper hose that comes with the Coyote Control pack almost connects the engine output to the radiator .... it would just need to be about 6” longer and have about a 22-1/2 degree bend. Cutting the end off another hose I had laying around turns out to be the perfect angle, I just need a coupler.





I pick up a hose coupling at the hardware store and make the connection. If I slide the friction sleeve over the coupling, they will never know ......





Upper hose taken care of, time to move to the lower hose. I have all this flexible stainless hose from the base kit, and couplers, this should be a great time to use them for the run from the thermostat housing over to the radiator. This run involves a few bends that are easily made. I will have to install one clamp where it passes under the body cross-member so that it doesn’t rub or bang on the frame.








You can see I also put a piece of hose in there at the thermostat housing, I may try to see it the stainless hose will mount straight on the housing in order to eliminate the additional joint. The fewer joints, the better. I get the feeling that the clearance to the steering column will make that decision for me. I’ll report back later.






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Discussion Starter #311 (Edited)
I’ve had a few personal items taking up time lately, so I’ve been a little light on the updates, but here we go.

Engine Cooling continued.

For expansion tank mounting, I decide to use Edwardb’s method with two upper mounts attached to the radiator crossbar and a lower support/stabilizer on the Breeze radiator shroud. Mock-up first ....



I ordered some 1/8x3/4” steel bar stock online, cut a couple of pieces to length and put a bend in them to bring them to level with the ground. After drilling rivet holes in the supports and applying some POR15 black, I drill for rivets and after verifying spacing, pop in the rivets. After temping the radiator back in I mark the location of the bottom support. I opt for 1/4” rivnuts for the upper supports and mark those holes as well.



For the lower support I cut a short piece of the bar stock and bent to the correct angle. Then I cut a few small pieces as filler to rivet together and form the size needed to fill in the lower support on the expansion tank. After epoxying and riveting it together, we rivet it into place and apply some black POR15.



After letting that dry, we drilled the holes and seated the rivnuts in the upper supports. The bottom support just sits on the bottom bracket. With the supports completed, we install the expansion tank and check it for flex.



One of my concerns was that the tank would flex or bounce as the car would drive over bumps or potholes. It turns out as I tested the tank for flexion up and down, it’s actually quite sturdy. The way the bottom support is designed, the foot of it hooks around the bottom support I made and holds it pretty securely.

Next are the hose connections. There is 1 coolant hose that runs from the top of the engine to the back of the tank. It comes off off the engine as a 1/4” hose, and connects to the coolant tank as a 3/8ths hose. I found a brass barbed reducer fitting at the hardware store (not cheap!) and threw a couple of hose clamps on it. I located this fitting under the engine cover so it would be invisible after final assembly.



I know you see more going on in that picture, but bear with me. I’ll get there.

The hose coming from the front of the expansion tank also has a coupling in it, and this one has an explanation behind it. The hose that I originally ordered from Tasca Parts is the OEM hose FR3Z-8075-C that I’ve been told has a Ford-engineered one-way valve. After I placed the order, Tasca replaced that part number with an ‘updated part number’ JL3Z-8075-C. After receipt of this newer hose, I determined it does not have an integral one-way valve, but seems to be otherwise identical. Upon installation I find the hose to be a little torqued and stretched in order to make it to the radiator fitting. So I looked around and found a piece of hose from my donor mustang that fit well and cut and spliced the two together to make a hose that is long enough to fit without stretching, and the fitting allows my to turn the hose without torquing. Because the hose runs a little close to the frame rail and the radiator, I opt to cover it with some flexible hose sheath and put a strap on it.





The Tank Cap installed readily, but ran into a hiccup there. The first one I bought from the local Autozone came apart after I put it in for the first time. They replaced it no questions asked, but it was a bear getting the inner part out and I put a nick or two in the top of the tank. Grr.



One last hose connection for the expansion tank is the hose connection under the tank. This one connects to the coolant stub that sticks straight out the front of the engine and F5 supplies a cap for in the Coyote kit. F5’s coolant scheme is a little different from the OEM scheme that we are basically mirroring.





Had to really work that last one hard to get those two ends on.

So just some hose clamps and straps to install, and we will be buttoned up with the coolant system. No cabin heater so we don’t have to worry about that.

Now to fill it with Coolant.






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Discussion Starter #312 (Edited)
With Cooling completed, I’ll move on to Intake and Power Steering. I started these somewhat simultaneously with or even before cooling due to mounting and fitment but due to parts deliveries did not finish until after.

I decided to go with the Spectre I take because I like the flashy silver. That’s really the bottom line. I like the look.

The items required and assembly of it is reasonably well covered in the manual, but the missing parts are the fittings to connect the EGR hoses and the CMCV hoses to the intake. To address those I order a kit from

I also ordered the recommended Spectre parts from Amazon. The packaging is pretty flashy, but the parts are very reasonably priced.




Most of their parts come in their special black bag. Seems gimmicky, but it does keep the parts clean.

Starting with the 3.5” to 4” flexible adaptor fitting, I install the elbow. Going to have to drill the EGR fitting holes into it once I get it lined up. The parts go together fairly easily.



Per the F5 Coyote manual I assemble the Mass Air Flow straight section with Silicone and after overnight drying, install it onto the elbow.





After the MAF section, the air filter mounts on. Here I start noticing some fitment interference with the frame to the point that the filter either knocks on the 2” tubular cross-member or the F-panel depending on the angle the intake is positioned at. It interferes to the point that I have to remove the intake assembly to install the air filter. Not entirely sure I won’t have to get a shorty air filter.



This picture isn’t the best, but illustrates the lack of clearance to the body and f-panel.



To get the vacuum hoses and EGR squared away I order a Coyote Vacuum Adaptor. This included the fittings, seals, and tubing to connect the appropriate vacuum and EGR hoses to the intake. There are three ports on the downstream side of the Throttle Body, 2 EGR ports that normally connect into the Intake Upstream of the TB, and two CMCV vacuum tubes that normally connect to the intake Upstream of the TB, so this requires a little reworking. The Passenger Side EGR already has a JLT oil collector installed, connecting to one of the vacuum ports downstream of the TB, so that’s covered.



The PS CMCV vacuum tube gets a 120-degree fitting and tube extension over to a vacuum fitting.



The Passenger side EGR and CMCV vacuum tubes normally connect to the Intake upstream of the Throttle Body, and that’s where we will keep them. We slip the fittings into the hoses to gauge where to drill the holes into the Intake Tube.



After drilling the holes into the intake tube (be careful and DON’T use your finger to clean the metal burrs out of the holes) we slip the seals and fittings into the holes and click the tubes onto the fittings.



Both done and attached. Here’s a better shot of the DS EGR tube. You can see that the last vacuum port on the left side of the picture behind the throttle body gets a rubber cap from the Coyote kit. This is important, if any vacuum ports are left open the engine will not run smoothly. How do I know this?.....



Has anyone else had the same filter crowding issue? I’d like to hear how you addressed that.




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Discussion Starter #313
When raising and lowering the Roadster and turning the steering wheel back and forth I keep hearing a knock-like sound. After some looking around and moving various parts I determined be the Passenger Side tie rod end ball-joint is bad and the tie rod needs to be replaced. And while I still have decent access to the sides of the steering rack, I’m going to install steering limiters. When the build is up on racks, lock-to-lock turning is fine, but when the car sits on the ground the tires touch the F-panels when turned to the end.



I ordered steering limiters from Breeze and a outer tie rod end from Amazon.






Time to crack the boots open.



First the driver’s side. Just need to change the steering spacer over here.



The factory spacer is small and takes a little bit of effort to remove. Once I remove it I snap the other one into place. The new one takes a bit more effort to install.



Over to the Passenger Side. I pop the boot off and remove the small spacer and install the Breeze spacer.





With a wrench and a backup wrench I loosen and remove the outer tie rod end while I have the boot off. With the new one tightened on I replace the boot and install new clamps on both boots.





Turning the wheel lock-to lock, I confirm the wheels no longer contact the F-panels. No knocking sound either. Setting it back down on the ground I confirm no knocking sound present. Steering hardware is operational, now on to Power Steering.


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Discussion Starter #314
My Intake Air Filter was the standard depth 4” Spectre air filter but the clearance bugs me; when the engine is running, I envision lots of knocking of the filter on the frame just with the normal jumping of a running engine, much less an engine torquing against the engine mounts. To address the clearance issue I bought a shorty Spectre filter. I don’t really like making this choice. With experience in the HVAC field I understand the relationship between air flow, filter surface area and the accelerated clogging of filter surfaces once they start to collect debris. The larger the filter’s surface area, the better. But measured against the possible damage to the frame or filter, it seems I must do something.

The height difference between the filters.



Clearance with the original filter.......



Clearance with the shorty Filter ........





Much better on the clearance .... I’m hoping it’s ok on the air flow. I guess only the dyno will tell.


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I have some questions, the first is about the MAF placement. I thought I had read it was not supposed to be on the bottom of the tube? Like O2 sensors, I was under the impression the MAF should be placed horizontal in the tube. The slim filter fixes the interference issue, but does it flow enough air to feed the engine? I also have a 2nd Gen Coyote going into my Mustang restomod, so I appreciate greatly your detailing the air intake plumbing.

Alan
 

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No way would I reduce the airflow through your intake with that small air filter. Plus you don't need all that clearance. The Coyote is a smooth running engine and if you have the usual Energy Suspension motor mounts, won't move around nearly as much as you seem to expect. I ran mine for a season with the standard parts (the ones you started with) and noted it occasionally was close to the frame. Probably wasn't an issue, but I trimmed about 3/8-inch off the end of the Spectre 90 degree tube. The end where the MAF tube attaches. That provided enough clearance that it hasn't been an issue since. I'd recommend that approach over that small air cleaner, if you think you need to do something.

I haven't heard that MAF sensors have the same issues as O2 sensors since intake air doesn't typically have the moisture levels that exhaust can. But based on usual recommendations, that's a moot point. It's generally recommended that MAF sensors should be on the outside of the cold air intake, e.g. where the path is the longest and theoretically gives the most stable reading to the sensor. For this intake, that means on the front, e.g. facing the front of the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #317
I had the same reservation, based on the decrease in surface area of the shorty filter... and I thought about shortening the 90. I definitely like having the larger filter, and I think the 3/8” you took off would be enough to move the clearance to an acceptable distance from the frame. I wasn’t sure what others had done; thanks for clueing me in.


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Discussion Starter #318
Intake modifications pending, We work on finishing up a couple more items. I wanted an in-dash fuel pressure gauge and it turns out it was a good thing that I did. I’ll explain after I detail installation.

After looking at option I decided on an in-dash gauge from Speedhut with an in-line sender. I ordered it with custom font to match the gauge set from F5 which of course is from Speedhut. It took a few weeks to arrive.

I planned to replace the clock with the Fuel Pressure gauge to group it with the fuel tank level gauge. Here is a shot with the gauge installed in the dash.



The fuel pressure gauge box came with the gauge, the sender and a three-conductor factory cable. The sender comes with thread sealant pre-applied to the 1/8 NPT threads.



So now I need to get the sender into the fuel line somewhere between the filter/regulator and the fuel rail and this means another fitting in the line. I decide on putting it in between the fuel flex line fitting and the fuel rail fitting. This is a -6AN flare connection that came with the Breeze fuel Eze-Pak fuel kit for the Coyote.



A little bit of Amazon browsing and I find a -6AN flare fitting with a 1/8 NPT threaded into the side. I tried to find it in black or silver but only found it in red/blue. In looking at the placement of the fittings in relation to the engine cover, I see that I won’t be able to install the sender sticking straight out perpendicular to the fitting but will have to turn a 90 so that the sender is basically parallel to the fitting assembly. Here I took a picture to judge the amount of room there is under the engine cover.



That basically confirms that I need to have the sender parallel to the fittings in order to stay under the cover. A trip to the hardware store and I have the proposed assembly.





So after putting some cloths down on the engine to sop up the inevitable fuel spillage I break the fuel flex line fitting apart and assemble the fittings.



So the sender is installed inline with the fuel flow just prior to the fuel rail. I have confirmed the engine cover fits with the sender installed, and now I need to run the sender wire from the sender to the back of the dash. I will probably use the three unused pins on one of the molex adaptors to keep the number of connectors down.

Details of that to follow.


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G'day Isaac, I installed the same pressure gauge as well, although thankfully there was a spare port on my Mallory regulator of the correct size. I checked calibration of the gauge prior to installing, spot on. I connected vacuum compensation to my regulator. (Not sure if I should have, maybe someone can tell me)
Pressure is at:
  • 55psi pump running, engine stopped (Coyote).
  • 50psi engine idle.
  • 60psi+ engine acceleration /demand.
when tank is below 1/4, the gauge often flicks down to approx 30 psi when braking or accelerating.

Might be worthwhile filing the sharp edges off of the right angle adaptor to prevent any rub through on adjacent hoses/ conduit.

cheers, Nigel
 

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Discussion Starter #320
G’day, Mate! Little known fact, I was born in Mel B. Hope to revisit someday.


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