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Discussion Starter #181 (Edited)
Pedal box installation time, and this part is spread out over multiple days while other parts of the build interface with it.

The Mounting of the Pedal box is fairly straightforward, 4 bolts with locknuts hold the Front (vehicle Front) Mount in place, and two bolts mount through frame members to secure the rear mount (vehicle rear). The mounts are supposed to mount onto the Pedal Box prior to installation in the DS Footbox, but I installed the Front Mount first, then worked on the Pedal Box assembly. You can still get the pedal box in and out reasonably easily if you haven’t put all the sheet metal together at the top of the Footbox.



The F5 instructions are not complete, at least the Wilwood Pedal Box addendum on the F5 website, so some small parts of this are interpolations.

Following the instructions I drilled the holes in the pedal box for the brake and clutch switch mounts, and installed those. Fine tuning on those later, after installation. Installed the pedals on the arms just fine, easy peasy. The Clutch quadrant pieces, however, proved to be a challenge and I’ll have to do more work on that because I know I don’t have it right. I believe there are two pieces missing from the way the diagram depicts it being assembled, and the way I currently have it assembled, it can’t mechanically capture the clutch cable. I’ll detail that in a later post.







Side note; for me, the Clutch arm switch mount plate position that worked the best is toward the rear of the vehicle, and the brake pedal switch mount plate needed to be on the side of the mount bracket toward the front of the vehicle. I discovered this after installing the Master Cylinders and observing the pedal travel at the desired pedal depth.



Pedal box assembled, it goes in place, ready for mounting MC’s and rear mount. It actually mounts below the bracket, I just have it resting on top for the picture.



Rear mounting bracket goes in place, it get two bolts through the frame and we are almost secure.



Master cylinder installation goes pretty smoothly, front and rear cylinders per instructions, I only had to uninstall them one time to adjust the balance bar to the recommended width with respect to the pedal arm. I’m sure I’ll have to adjust it side-to-Side when I get the brakes completed and bled. Locknuts go on, mounting the MC’s and holding the rear bracket to the Pedal Box simultaneously.









Fittings go on the MC’s and temporarily install the supply lines; I’m going to have to figure out a gasket or gland fitting for bringing those supply hoses into the Footbox. Reservoir mounting will come later.

Clearance is getting pretty slim on that accelerator pedal wiring connection, I hope it still makes it in there by the time the car is done.





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Discussion Starter #182 (Edited)
After the Big Brake fitment fiasco I sent the Performance Pack brakes back to Tasca (by the way they are excellent to work with, I highly recommend them. Great customer service) and ordered a Wilwood Kit from Gordon Levy. To match I bought the Wilwood Pedal Box from Michael Emerson out of a F5 kit that he’s putting hydro boost in. Both great guys to work with.

After mocking up the brakes to ensure fit per Wilwood assembly instructions I disassembled and started permanent assembly of the rears.

First step is assembly of the Rotors. They come in to separate pieces, the steel rotor and an aluminum hat and must be bolted together precisely. The bolt require red loctite and torquing to 155 in-lbs, NOT ft-lbs. I read that many have snapped these bolts using the wrong torque setting.









The rotors are also directional, and there is an arrow on the rotor itself that point in the direction of normal rotation, which is toward the front end of the car.

Caliper mounting bracket goes on with Red Loctite and torque to 78 ft-lbs. The manual says 77, but my torque wrench only has even value detents.







Two mounting nuts for the calipers tighten down onto the studs at 30 ft-lbs. Removal of the brake pad clips and installation of the brake pads, then visual confirmation that edge of the the brake pad lines up with the edge of the rotor.

The Wilwood set uses a separate parking brake caliper, and it’s a cute little thing. Two bolts install with red loctite and torque to 30 ft-lbs.







The pictures are a mix of the right and left side, don’t let the orientation fool you.

After installation of the brakes, the 45-degree fittings go in the mounting holes in the back of the calipers and the Flex Line Adaptor Mounting plates mount on the frame. Flex line runs from caliper to adaptor.






Hard lines next.


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Discussion Starter #183 (Edited)
I’m going to seemingly get a little ahead of myself here, but I’ll come back to the Clutch issue. For now I wanted to get the hard brake lines done. Having done a ton of copper line bending in a previous life I have a decent eye for bends and I’m ok with a tubing bender.

Starting with the front line, I came off the PS MC and elbowed up and then along the upper frame rail, as I saw edwardb had done. I trimmed the top piece out with my metal shears, and will fill that in with sealant later. My primary concern is contact line-to-frame. Having 5-foot lengths of brake line forced me to carefully plan the bends to make sure I ended up at the right spot. Not having the Front brakes in place yet nor the flex adaptor mounting plate I have to closely estimate where they will end up. Clecos work in many places. I routed the line down along the splash guard seam area, keeping at least 1” away and looped down, then up into the tee where the future flex adaptor will be.













I continued from the tee right into a 120-degree turn and around the frame post. I again took edwardb’s route across the front of the X-member across and back up and around the frame post on the other side. A little creative bending and I end up right where I will need to be.







Finished with the routing for now, next step is riveting, and I’ll save tightening the fittings until I have the front brakes in place.

Speaking of; the front rotors are still on back order, so I don’t have them in hand yet.

Rear lines to run.


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Discussion Starter #184 (Edited)
Now for the rear Brake Lines. Starting at the DS Master Cylinder, I parallel the Front brake line to the front edge of the Footbox where a good mounting flange is, and break away down along the edge





Then I continue down the Footbox, keeping in mind I don’t want any way to kick this line while driving the car. You builders with more experience may need to let me know if I have accomplished this goal. I may need to secure it a couple more times on the way across.





Bending this piece is a challenge. You have to temp it in place to see where it is going, then mark with a sharpie so you don’t lose your measurements and then free bend it. This one is almost done.



The exit of the Footbox; I drilled behind the accelerator pedal up through the bottom of the Footbox, and had to round the hole out to nearly 1/2” to accommodate the flare nut. Turn a couple 90-degree bends, and I’m headed down the 4” Frame tube toward the back of the vehicle.





The couplings supplied with the kit allow me to continue down along the frame rail, again I go with 12” spacings. When I get to the 2x3 post, I turn a 90 up the rail, and my line stops about 3” from the trunk floor frame member.



I tentatively choose this spot to install my tee, but clecos and finger-tight nuts will allow me to change my mind it I want to. As luck would have it, I find the 24” piece is the perfect length to make it from the DS flex line adaptor to the tee, just barely. Then I start work on the far side. Eyeballing it I can tell it will be a matter of making one end accommodate a few extra inches of line, and I decide to start at the PS flex adaptor and work my way toward the Tee. I bend the line and after a little finesse-ing of the tube and a 45 and a 120-bend at the Tee end, it’s a perfect fit. With the insulated straps installed in key spots, I feel the lines will not contact the frame.














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Discussion Starter #185 (Edited)
Back to the Clutch Cable Capture Mechanism. It obviously won’t capture the Clutch cable as is, so time to do a little reading forums and understanding how the mechanism works. Rather frustrating that assembling exactly by the manual results in a non-functional mechanism. Slight correction; assembling it as closely to the manual as the parts supplied will allow me to get. One key part missing was the end piece on the driver’s side, but I took the corresponding part out of the original kit bag and cut off the unused neutral (I hope) switch arm in order to make it like the diagram. Since the neutral switch is down on the Clutch arm, I don’t think I need a second one above.



I’m assuming they sent me almost all the right parts, even if the instructions are wrong, and looking at other build threads I think I can reassemble in a different order to make it work right. It’s just a matter of experimentation to find the right order to make it function correctly. It appears the two keys are first to make sure the Clutch cable lines up within the groove and does not chafe the cable and second, when the cable end is captured correctly and the Clutch pedal is depressed, the cable end does not knock against the Pedal Box top but descends into the hole that looks like it was designed to accept it.



First try, resulting in the cable end hitting the pedal box instead of dropping into the hole...





Skip the ‘spacer plates’ over one more large plate and try again ....



Looks right! I think We have a winner.



Now we just have to tighten up the nuts and move on.


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Discussion Starter #186
‘One test is worth a thousand expert opinions.’

I decided to finish up the emergency brakes next. A mock-up shows me I need to bring the sheet metal that surrounds the e-brake handle tighter to the transmission tunnel to avoid the handle rubbing on the metal. It’s time to secure the PS floor. But first I have to tidy the fit up just a little bit.

The edge of the sheet metal that runs along the top of the trans tunnel PS sticks up about 1/4” at it’s highest point, and I want to have a cap that fits evenly and tight down against the frame rails.



So I mark it with a sharpie for reference but my experience tells me you have to take more than just the line when you cut. So I make a second mark parallel with the original, but about 1/8” further, and then proceed to take that line.

Looks much better now, nice and flush.



I go ahead and apply silicone and rivet the PS floor, then let it dry overnight.

Mocking up the e-brake, and since I bought the base kit, the e-brake handle and cables do not come in the kit. I ordered the handle and front cable from Mark at Breeze and the nut clips came with the base kit.




After doing some reading about the different e-brake cables used and the different mounting methods used, I decided to pull the trigger on the cables and bought 2 each of these Driver’s Side cables, mostly because they were 3/4” longer than the PS. I got these from Auto Zone locally.



I installed the brake handle and the front cable, and mocked up the cables in front, to see generally what the options are for routing.





I didn’t want to run the cables under the frame, which is the option that probably functions the best if you only count straight cables, and is the least risky (at least as far as possibly contact with drive train members). I also wanted more securement than just the front set of holes. What I decided to do was round out the upper rear holes so I could thread the cables though and use that as securement.

Enter my trusty Uni-bit, or Step Bit as some might call it. I’d used this tool for years as an electrician, and I wouldn’t go without one in a work vehicle. It makes short work of rounding out the upper holes and things come together nicely.







Here’s the upper hole enlarged.



Fits right through.





There’s the front section, cables in place and made up to the handle. Yes, the front cable is angled, and I’m not a fan of that. I may end up trying to solve that, but I’ll finish up the rear part of the e-brake for now.









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Discussion Starter #187
The connection at the caliper end of the cable has been something I mulled over for a couple days, mostly based on pictures of other builds. The most common attachment I saw included some sort of Clevis or Cable Connector, so I went searching around town for a connector to bolt to the e-brake caliper arm and capture the end of the brake cable. I finally found a Dorman part that was close and ordered two, costing me $7. Turns out I was wasting that time and effort.

The routing of the cables is just up and looping over the Differential once you get past the rear mount, and then coming alongside the LCA and up into the bottom of the mounts.









The arms on the fastener clips at the end of the cable are too long to fit, and look like they would interfere with the coil spring, so I trim them down just a bit and they fit perfectly.





Now that the cable is in place, the realization hits me that the cable end is too long for any adaptor to fit between it and the caliper arm. Matter of fact, it almost is long enough to slip right into the arm itself ................

You’re probably way ahead of me.



Yes, the cable is the perfect length to slip right into the arm, and then just use a bolt to span the gap and secure it in place. I’ll end up shopping for a cap-screw-style bolt without threads up some of the shaft, so as not to chafe the cable, and a jam nut.



All that thought, googling, and effort.....

One test is worth a thousand expert opinions.









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Discussion Starter #188 (Edited)
The mounting of the CNC Triple Reservoir is another example of the value of these forums. I’ll go with a piece of angle metal under-mounted to nutserts in the upper frame rail.

My neighbor Travis cut me the piece of angle metal the same length as the Mounts, and I mocked up the setup and marked the hole locations.





After I marked them, Travis drilled the holes with his new metal milling machine. That thing looks versatile and heavy duty. Not to mention expensive.



Now to drill the holes in the frame, install the nutserts and do the final mock-up before cleaning and applying a little POR-15 to the bracket.



Nutsert tool.






Bracket Temp-mounted






Nutserts are very demanding, you have to line up the holes exactly or the bolts just will not thread into them. I ended up having to open up one of the mounting holes to get it to accept them.

Now that it’s fitted, I’ll take the bracket back loose, use the cleaner/degreaser, apply the etcher, and give it a couple coats of POR15.

I’ll also be looking for a grommet for the brake lines to insulate the supply lines where they go through the sheet metal.


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Discussion Starter #189
The rear wheels have had some play, which has concerned me. After the rear brake and parking brake were finished, I tightened in 3 lug nuts on both sides and took the Axle Nut to 100 ft-lbs. The ending torque value will be 250 ft-lbs, but I’ll wait to tighten it that far until I set the car on the ground.

Tightening this up firmed the wheels right up, there’s no play at all.





Now if only I had the front brakes, I would be this close to a roller!


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Just a caution on the clutch quadrant plate stack- it's been almost 2 years since I assembled mine but I remember a similar issue- FFR had supplied 3 of the same 'large' plate. The one that goes in the middle (same contours as the 2 larger plates) was not in my parts set. FFR sent one to me upon request.

I don't know if the one of those small plates you are using now in the middle of the stack has the needed radius/contour to effectively release the clutch.

If you are past this, my apologies.

Dave
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Discussion Starter #191
Just a caution on the clutch quadrant plate stack- it's been almost 2 years since I assembled mine but I remember a similar issue- FFR had supplied 3 of the same 'large' plate. The one that goes in the middle (same contours as the 2 larger plates) was not in my parts set. FFR sent one to me upon request.



I don't know if the one of those small plates you are using now in the middle of the stack has the needed radius/contour to effectively release the clutch.



If you are past this, my apologies.



Dave

Gen III Coupe #17


I always appreciate words of wisdom, Dave. I am in the same situation that you were in, and taking your experience into account I’ll see if I can get them to send me the smaller plate. I was sent the three larger ones just like you had. What I ended up doing was improvising and taking both the smaller end plates and stacking them in the middle to create the width I assumed was necessary to accommodate the cable. I used a couple of washers underneath the plates to shim the plates tight to the pedal arm, as there was some room. I think it will end up just fine, but I’m leaving that DS footbox open until the body goes on so I can verify everything is functioning before I close it up.


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I had my footbox top cover off today so a I took a picture.

Interestingly, my 2 large outer plates are different thicknesses (like what you have). Somewhere I have a 3rd plate that probably matches one of the two.

In any case, you can probably get an idea of the outer radius of the middle plate- I'd say it's larger than the small outer plate in the picture- and probably has a curve matched to the two outer plates.

Dave
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Front brake arrived today and will go out Monday
 

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Discussion Starter #194
Front brake arrived today and will go out Monday


Perfect, thanks, Gordon! Looking forward to getting the fronts in.


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Discussion Starter #195
Trip to the local hardware store and found a combo of cap screw in 1/4-20. Had to go a little longer than I was looking for to get the smooth collar to the width I wanted it in order to not damage the brake cable with the threads. A jam nut and a lock but might have been overkill. I felt better about that anyway, so I did it.



Assembled together through the e-brake caliper arm end mount point. There is only a slight angle to the head of the cable. I don’t think it will make any difference.





After assembling, I checked it for clearance to the wheel, no issue. E-brake 99% complete. Checked for operation of the e-brake, works nicely.


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Discussion Starter #196 (Edited)
I had my footbox top cover off today so a I took a picture.



Interestingly, my 2 large outer plates are different thicknesses (like what you have). Somewhere I have a 3rd plate that probably matches one of the two.



In any case, you can probably get an idea of the outer radius of the middle plate- I'd say it's larger than the small outer plate in the picture- and probably has a curve matched to the two outer plates.



Dave

Gen III Coupe #17


I see that. I’m not sure whether I should bother F5 for a plate or just take the bench grinder to one of the existing large plates. I agree, the radius of the plate that contributes to the length of Clutch cable drawn through when the pedal is depressed could make a difference. I’ll think it over and make a decision when I’m back next week.


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Discussion Starter #197 (Edited)
We finished up the Reservoir bracket and got that installed today, as well as the brake supply lines. Here’s the process.

After mocking up the triple Reservoir for fitment, we washed, prepped and painted the bracket with POR15 to match the frame.







After bolting the bracket in place we mounted the Reservoir onto the bracket and tightened it into place.



You can see the adhesive from the warning stickers still on the Reservoir, we cleaned that off with a little Acetone. All shiny now!

After mounting that, we installed the grommet for the brake lines. The kit supplies a grommet with a hole for a single line, and I am bringing two brake lines through as well as a wiring harness lead (I suspect). I bought a Marine grommet on Amazon. The part is a Rig Rite Manufacturing 615 grommet and Prime has it in my hands in two days.

As an electrical contractor I have tools that some may not, and a hydraulic Punch set is one of those. I use the 1-11/16ths inch size punch to enlarge the hole to the size that looks right. I could also use a hole saw if I put a piece of wood to brace it on the other side of the hole, but this way is much cleaner.







After enlarging the hole and marking the holes with a sharpie, I pop the holes through and use rivets to secure the grommet. By dumb luck I chose a size of grommet that allows me to use the aluminum sheet to rivet to and stay inside the hole in the body steel hole.







Finished product in place with hoses connected.






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Discussion Starter #198
Received the second shipment from Gordon Levy Racing yesterday, the Front Brakes! .... excited to get started but a friend needs my help with my trailer today, so time will be limited ......




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Discussion Starter #199 (Edited)
I’d like to make sure that the Reservoirs will feed the Master Cylinders effectively, and to do this, the level of the fluid in the Reservoir has to be higher than the highest point on the supply line to the MCs. How to measure this .....

My experience in the construction industry has taught me many things, and you do learn something new every day. One thing I learned in my first few years of work was how to make a water level. It’s very simple and all you need is a length of clear vinyl tubing and some water.

Position the clear vinyl tubing at the two locations you want to compare for height, and fill with water to the necessary level, and the water seeks its own level and you get two exactly equivalent reference points.



I fastened the tubing with the zip ties that came with the tubing, and filled with water.



The level of the water is about 1/2” from the bottom of the reservoir.





I can see using the water level that the Reservoir will flow down to fill the Master Cylinder, so its all good. I would not like to redo the Reservoir mount.


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Your reservoirs will flow fine from that height. Mine are in nearly the exact location and work perfectly. Just not sure why you have that much slack in your lines through the footbox to the MC's. You could tighten that up quite a bit. I found some 90 degree fittings for the two brake reservoirs that cleaned it up even more. Couldn't find the right size for the clutch reservoir since it's a smaller size.

 
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