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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have recently completed the installation, first start, and go-kart of my 2015 Coyote powered Anniversary Roadster. Build thread linked in my sig line. While the engine seems to start and run perfectly, one thing I have noticed is that the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) does not appear to be working properly.

The 16-way pigtail includes a wire in cavity number 4 (documentation says it should be VT or violet, mine is actually dark blue) that "Provides +12V to MIL when error state is present." The documentation also says the MIL will stay illuminated when the ignition is ON and the engine is NOT running, but go OFF once the engine starts and no faults are present. In other words, basically the same as a DD check engine light.

The controls pack includes an indicator light for the MIL. Appears to be a pretty generic LED part. I instead used an LED indicator that matched the other indicators I used on my dash. I've never seen the indicator light under any condition, running or not. Last night I noticed it was just slightly glowing, which seemed kind of strange. Probably has been that way all along. Just didn't see it before especially in bright light. Thinking there may be an incompatibilty with the LED indicator I used, I unplugged that light and jumpered in the provided indicator light. Same thing. The glow stays on all the time, whether key on, engine not running, engine running.

Today I called Ford Racing tech support. The guy I talked to had not heard of this before. He asked me lots of questions about the installation, and all of my answers seemed OK. He asked me to check the voltage on the MIL wire and call back on Monday when one of their guys who is more experienced with these types of issues will be back from vacation. I just finished the measurement. The lead measures 2.5V at all times when the key is on, engine running or not. It's supposed to be +12V, and then zero when the engine starts. I checked with both a local ground point and also ran a ground wire directly to the battery post. Both had the same reading. The tech guy wasn't concerned about the wire color being wrong. Said that wasn't surprising as long as the pin-out I was using was the right one. He said cases like this are often ground related, but my test seems to show it isn't. Anyone else get theirs working as it's supposed to?

On a related but off-topic note, he asked me if I was using a custom tune in my installation. I said "not yet" but would in the future if driveability isn't OK or I think I need to find more power. He cautioned that I should get a new tune regardless, and that I risked damage to the engine if I didn't. He said the non-stock intake and to a lessor extent the non-stock exhaust may cause the A/F to be off enough to cause damage. I said I thought the PCM would adjust the A/F, and he said yes but maybe not enough. He said it was OK to start and run, but not to put any load on it until it was dyno tuned. Frankly this surprises me. Any thoughts?
 

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Can't help with the light issue, as my 2013 Coyote did not come with that in the package, but the statement re tune is surprising. I went ahead and got several tunes from JMS to adjust for exhaust, intake and octane. Initial tune was for stalling, until I discovered that my Speed Dial fuse had blown.
 

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i have 7400 on mine without a tune, right out of the crate with tko600, speed dial, SS headers and FFR sidepipes. Drives great and can get 24 mpg.......i can also get 12!!
 

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I think l read somewhere that it is actually is a grounding circuit not a 12v one. Takes the pigtail wire to ground when the MIL is on. Don't quote me but I seem to recall that. I helped a local guy wire his 2015 and was googling some stuff and seem to recall coming across a discussion about it.

Kevin
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think l read somewhere that it is actually is a grounding circuit not a 12v one. Takes the pigtail wire to ground when the MIL is on. Don't quote me but I seem to recall that. I helped a local guy wire his 2015 and was googling some stuff and seem to recall coming across a discussion about it.

Kevin
Yea, on page 14 of the instructions it says the pigtail wire "Provides +12V to MIL when error state is present." Seemed pretty straightforward so I didn't look any further when I wired it up.

But on page 15 it provides more detail and maybe a little contradiction with "Blunt Lead 4 – Malfunction Indicator Light (Blue): Connect this blunt lead to the negative (black) lead on the MIL (provided in the kit bag). You will need to provide 12V for the positive (red) lead of the MIL."

I hadn't seen this before. I disconnected how I had it wired before and jumpered to the grounding circuit. The MIL now flashes when the key is turned on. Really quick. It doesn't stay on until the engine starts as the instructions say it's supposed to do. But maybe progress? I've done a bunch of Googling and can't find this discussed anywhere else. Do you know if your local buddy ever got his to work the way it's supposed to?

Thanks.
 

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His is only rough wired to get it started so it's not hooked up. I recall now I figured it out from downloading the most current instructions from Ford and reading them cover to cover.

Kevin
 

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Unplug the MAF sensor and turn the key to on. Should throw a code to verify.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
His is only rough wired to get it started so it's not hooked up. I recall now I figured it out from downloading the most current instructions from Ford and reading them cover to cover. Kevin
OK. Thanks.

Unplug the MAF sensor and turn the key to on. Should throw a code to verify.
That's funny. I tried exactly that late this afternoon with the MIL wired as a grounding circuit. No light. But I also checked the ODB port with my scan tool and no DTC's. I asked the Ford tech if there was a "safe" fault I could do to the engine to test the light and he never answered the question.
 

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Really an outside chance....try "new" light bulbs?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Really an outside chance....try "new" light bulbs?
Wish it were that easy. Two different known good LED indicators, plus troubleshooting with a VOM that doesn't lie. Thanks though. I'll be talking to Ford Racing tech support again on Monday when the person who's supposed to be their electrical expert will be back from vacation.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Got it Working!!!

With a little more study and experimenting, tonight I was able to get the MIL working. The version of instructions I received with the controls pack had incorrect and conflicting info about the MIL. I downloaded the version from the Ford Performance website -- which I have to assume is the most current -- and compared it page by page. Some of the discrepancies related to the MIL are fixed, but there's still a contradiction. At the top of page 15, it says to connect blunt lead 4 (MIL) to the negative lead on the indicator. In the middle of the same page it says to connect blunt lead 9 (ground) to the negative lead on the indicator. Now I'm no EE, but pretty sure you need to pick one or the other.

When I wired the build initially, I wired the MIL with the positive lead to blunt lead 4 and the negative lead to ground. The table on page 14 of the instructions suggests that's how it should be wired. But it doesn't work properly. While waiting to call Ford again on Monday and talk to Ray, decided to tinker some more. I've never been accused of being very patient. I disconnected my previous work and jumpered it to be a ground switching circuit. Hooked the blunt lead 4 to the negative lead on the indicator and the positive lead to an ignition switched 12V source.

At first I didn't think this worked either because the indicator light only flashed briefly when the key was turned, rather than staying lit until the engine starts as the instructions say on page 7. I tried pulling the MAF sensor connector, but that only created a no-start condition and no DTC codes. So I pulled the throttle body connector. Although a bit ragged (no surprise) the engine started and the light popped on. Yea! Scanned the ODB port and had two TPS related codes. Plugged the connector back in, cleared the codes, started the engine, and the light turned back off. I repeated the sequence again with the same result.

I'm now satisfied that the MIL is working correctly other than not staying lit until the engine starts. That isn't a problem. The flash tells you it's alive and there aren't any stored codes. Just different than what the instructions say. Not too excited about intentionally introducing faults because I'm a complete amateur and don't want to hurt anything. So happy to stop. Now just need to clean up the wiring and move on.
 

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Hi Paul, I had the same experience as you. Now that I rewired the blunt lead to ground rather that 12v+, I see the quick flash initial power up as you describe. I'm finding the mil light is still always on but very dim though, hard to tell unless the room is a dark. Are you getting that to?

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi Paul, I had the same experience as you. Now that I rewired the blunt lead to ground rather that 12v+, I see the quick flash initial power up as you describe. I'm finding the mil light is still always on but very dim though, hard to tell unless the room is a dark. Are you getting that to?

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Yes, the MIL just barely glows all the time. Slightly visible in the garage and even a little more visible at night. Outside in the sunlight, can't really see it. Of course, it there's a reason for the MIL to go on, it glows brightly. Good news is hasn't happened. It just runs.

Side comment -- installed a Gen 3 Coyote in a Coupe since this build. Does the same thing.
 

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Cheers Paul, Thanks again.

Alex..

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Hi Alex, Paul,

I think you mentioned that you are using a LED for MIL. The dim glow is from small leakage in the lamp driving circuit in the ECU. This leakage is enough to light a LED, albeit dimly, as the LED does not apply much loading to the circuit. An incandescent bulb applies much higher loading and also needs a higher voltage applied to be visible.
You could put a 1watt resistor of around 150ohm in parallel with (across) the LED. This should solve the problem.

Cheers Nigel
 

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Thanks Nigel, I'll give that a go. Appreciate your help.
Noticed you are also in Oz! Good to see a fellow Aussie FFR builder.

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi Alex, Paul,

I think you mentioned that you are using a LED for MIL. The dim glow is from small leakage in the lamp driving circuit in the ECU. This leakage is enough to light a LED, albeit dimly, as the LED does not apply much loading to the circuit. An incandescent bulb applies much higher loading and also needs a higher voltage applied to be visible.
You could put a 1watt resistor of around 150ohm in parallel with (across) the LED. This should solve the problem.
Cheers Nigel
Thanks Nigel, I'll give that a go. Appreciate your help.
Noticed you are also in Oz! Good to see a fellow Aussie FFR builder.
I did use an LED for the MIL. Was an aftermarket one that matched the other LED's on my dash. But the stock Ford Performance control pack also comes with an LED. Which also slightly glows the same way. I did quite a bit of research and experimentation on my Coupe build with the Gen 3 Coyote MIL (which does the same thing as I mentioned before) because the Coupe with a roof doesn't get washed out in the sun like the Roadster. So I tried to tone it down a bit with resistor values as you mentioned. I was mildly successful, but not 100%. I found, at least in my tests, that enough resistance to take out the slight glow also affected it more than I wanted when it actually needed to light, e.g. indicate a fault. So it still glows a little. That was my experience. Not all LEDs have the same forward voltage drop. Your experience might be different.
 

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I guess we can go all out and connect it via a relay?

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Paul, maybe I interpreted your description of your experiments with resistors incorrectly. Sounds like you were trying different series resistance values. The burden resistor I am suggesting is to be placed in parallel with the led/ series resistor combination. In other words between the MIL output on the ECU and positive. The idea is that the burden resistor will drag the MIL output positive, removing voltage across the LED until the MIL gets activated. When the MIL output turns on (goes fully negative), enough current will pass and the LED will illuminate at full brightness.

Hope that makes sense. Have to be clear that I haven't tried it as I don't have gen3. I have tried it with other industrial engine ECU's to prevent floating voltages with success.

Cheers Nigel
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Paul, maybe I interpreted your description of your experiments with resistors incorrectly. Sounds like you were trying different series resistance values. The burden resistor I am suggesting is to be placed in parallel with the led/ series resistor combination. In other words between the MIL output on the ECU and positive. The idea is that the burden resistor will drag the MIL output positive, removing voltage across the LED until the MIL gets activated. When the MIL output turns on (goes fully negative), enough current will pass and the LED will illuminate at full brightness.

Hope that makes sense. Have to be clear that I haven't tried it as I don't have gen3. I have tried it with other industrial engine ECU's to prevent floating voltages with success.

Cheers Nigel
No you didn't misunderstand what I was doing. And no I haven't tried that approach. Might work but to be honest don't want to mess with anything that might alter how the ECU is working. Even though what you're describing probably won't. I mostly understand this stuff, but don't claim to be an EE by any means. I'm fine with the slight glow. I just call it my "system is on and running" light. I'm mainly concerned it's going to burn my retinas if there's a fault. :LOL:
 
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