Another AEM Infinity ECU Install on a Coyote - Page 15 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #421 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 04:34 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

I did Change it to turn on on 85C and of at 80C. However, I tried this before and my car always stays at around 95C. while my gauges temp shows 85 c. Gauges temp is located on the same location as original temp location with added T fittings. I had to use extra sensor because it works with Digital Dakota.



one more thing. I just sent you a log. I noticed that when I come to a stop (traffic light). it Idle a bit high. at the first few stops in the log it was about 1000 RPM. If you look toward the end of the logging I gave it a bit of a kick down then after a minute I reached home. I parked in the garage and shifted to parking and the car idle was 1200 with A/C still on. I turned it of it went back to 850RPM. I turned A/C back on it went to 1200 again. If you please can take a look and see if this is normal?



ok one more thing. At the end when I did the kick down did TC work? I saw a spike on the TC plot but not sure this is TC working or something else.



Thanks


I see where you changed your fan setting to come on earlier. But you are correct. Not once in the last datalog did your fan ever shut off. Itís as if you just arenít getting efficient cooling. Itís holding between 201F and 208F, but just canít seem to get any cooler even with the fan running full time so it never shuts off. You might check to make sure you have all the air purged out of the coolant system. Also, are you sure the radiator is sized right and/or you have enough airflow going into the radiator?

The idle issue is doing exactly what it is tuned to do. The problem is, the AEM tune defaults are loaded into your tune. This has not been worked on and therefore is causing the high idle. Effectively what is happening is the ECU is compensating for the extra load on the engine when the compressor is engaged, and the idle feedback goes into closed loop. First off, the tune is calling for an immediate increase in idle target of 50 RPM (Idle AC Target Offset). Secondly, to prevent idle undershoot there is an additional 250 RPM temporary trim that is added to the target (Idle Offset RPM) and then decays to 0 over 4 seconds (Idle Offset Time). Thirdly, there is an idle base position trim that moves your throttle position open by an additional 7% (Idle AC Offset). These are all tools to custom tune your idle behavior when the AC is on, and you do a quick deceleration. Some engines will overshoot and possibly stall with the AC on. These are the tools to tune around this issue. Clearly these factory settings are way, way too aggressive. This is going to be difficult for me to tune it right without the vehicle. You can certainly play with these parameters to tune it to the behavior you are after. The goal is to have it come to idle and rest exactly the same when the AC is on as when it is off. What I think we should do is get rid of all of these trims and then see what the engine does without them. Then we can add back one trim at a time until we get this tuned. I can probably get it fairly close for you with a couple of trial and error attempts after you give me feedback each time. Then it should be close enough and you can fine tune from there. This is all managed in the Idle Wizard. Iíll probably leave one conservative trim set up for starters just to help compensate a little for the extra engine load when the compressor is engaged. See pic.


Regarding traction control as per your datalog, when you did the kick down, you gave the car a full 100% throttle. The speed sensors registered rear tire slip and it measured a 13 mph slip. This in turn engaged the traction control and it reduced your throttle by 26%, pulled 38% fuel and pulled 6.9 degrees of timing. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. You may not have noticed the traction control engaging since you were doing a quick throttle blip and as fast as you were on the throttle you got off it. Had you kept your foot in it you likely would have felt the decrease in power until you regained traction. I can also see that you had it turned to the most sensitive of the 12 position setting. It seems to be working to me. The only bizarre observation is it seems that traction was lost just as you began letting off the throttle not when you first got on then throttle. Another pic here where you can see the data as Iíve described.


Iíve sent you a revised tune. Load it and try it out.

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post #422 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 11:41 AM
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I see where you changed your fan setting to come on earlier. But you are correct. Not once in the last datalog did your fan ever shut off. It’s as if you just aren’t getting efficient cooling. It’s holding between 201F and 208F, but just can’t seem to get any cooler even with the fan running full time so it never shuts off. You might check to make sure you have all the air purged out of the coolant system. Also, are you sure the radiator is sized right and/or you have enough airflow going into the radiator?
Whats the right Size?
I used same Aluminum Radiator that was on the car. (1967 Mustang that had V8 engine with A/C and Auto transmission. the car wasnt overheating so I didnt change the Radiator. these are the parts:
1) Part No.(338-2AL) 1967-1970 Mustang Aluminum High Performance Radiator 67-69 289, 302, 351 with OEM AC. (http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/...L.aspx?wid=141)
2) Part No.(FLX-412) Electric Fan, Dual, 12 in. Diameter, S-Blade, Puller, 2,500 cfm, Black, Plastic, Each (https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...-412/overview/)


I will update tune and give it another log. Will do little driving and stop. and then will try do more of a full throttle.


Last edited by Hakeem; 04-09-2019 at 11:44 AM. Reason: added websites
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post #423 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:01 PM
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I just sent you one Data log Just to test A/C. here is what I noticed.

1) when A/C blower is on full speed car is perfect. acceleration, declaration, and stopping is perfect.

2) when the fan is not on full speed (compressor turns on and off), its much better from before but there is still a big play. I think you can see this at the long stop (I was at drive thru) after the minute 16 in the log.

Its much better than before. Thanks!

I will send a tune with couple of full throttle tomorrow. I have to wake up really early tomorrow and couldnt do it today.
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post #424 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Hakeem,

I noticed that under certain conditions with your AC on, your idle feedback continually bounces between open loop and closed loop. Itís falling out of feedback and not allowing the engine to reach the target idle. You are idling about 100 RPM lower than what the ECU is calling for. This is because We have The ďIdle On Below TPSĒ set too low. The threshold is currently set to 3.0%. You are bouncing between 2 and 4%. Every time the TPS signal bumps above 3%, Idle FB turns off. I have raised it to 5 now. I also added a tiny bit of AC airflow trim back to your Idle Feedback.

Give it a try and log it like you did in the last one and let me know the new behavior.
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post #425 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 06:59 PM
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Hakeem,

I noticed that under certain conditions with your AC on, your idle feedback continually bounces between open loop and closed loop. Itís falling out of feedback and not allowing the engine to reach the target idle. You are idling about 100 RPM lower than what the ECU is calling for. This is because We have The ďIdle On Below TPSĒ set too low. The threshold is currently set to 3.0%. You are bouncing between 2 and 4%. Every time the TPS signal bumps above 3%, Idle FB turns off. I have raised it to 5 now. I also added a tiny bit of AC airflow trim back to your Idle Feedback.

Give it a try and log it like you did in the last one and let me know the new behavior.
Thanks. Sorry I shouldve sent you this earlier. or at least told you I will.

I just sent you three datalogs:

1) A/C on-off in N and D car is not moving: you can see how on N idle moves up to around 1200 RPM. While on D its perfect!

2) two full throttle data logs. I set TC on maximum and when changing gear wheels spin a bit but immediately got grip. Its AMAZING! Also when I give it full throttle there is a very lovely mild back fire. actually not sure if its back fire but I liked it! its like a low base backfire.

if you dont mind I will wait till you see these two and upload whatever tune you send me.
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post #426 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds good. Iíll review these and if I see anything else to tweak I will. For now, ignore the tune I just sent you and hold tight until I review. May be sending you another revised tune. Isnít the traction control amazing?
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post #427 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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Hakeem,

Does your transmission controller somehow interface with your throttle body or accelerator pedal? Mostly just curious if there is some sort of trans controller harness that taps into the DBW circuit.
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post #428 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 08:49 PM
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Hakeem,

Does your transmission controller somehow interface with your throttle body or accelerator pedal? Mostly just curious if there is some sort of trans controller harness that taps into the DBW circuit.
Yes. I have to connect two wires to one of the pedal sensors. One signal and one ground.
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post #429 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Ok. That explains some things. There is some phantom trim that is going on that is adding airflow by cracking open your throttle blade external to the Infinity ECU. We are calling for 850 RPM with AC off and 900 RPM with AC on. At a specific idle base position some mysterious force is opening up the blade further. Now the mystery has been identified. Your trans controller is trying to do whatever it is programmed to do which is in direct conflict with what I am trying to do through your ECU. I am telling your throttle body to close through the Infinity while your trans controller is telling it to open. This is what appears to be running up your idle. This run up causes the TPS signal to now go over 3% which shuts off the idle FB from the Infinity and the trans controller wins the fight.

I can’t tune your trans controller. I don’t even know if it is tunable. So the best I can do is basically try to use a bigger tuning hammer than what the trans controller is calling for now that I understand what’s happening. By moving up the TPS threshold from 3% to 5% we may be able to stop the trans controller by basically forcing the idle FB to stay on. If we can keep it on, then I can tune the PIDs (mostly the “P” value) and maybe basically force the idle back down. My fear is that as I ratchet up my feedback loop the trans controller may attempt do the same and we go back and forth in a circle which would likely translate to big oscillations in your idle engine speed.

Anyway, try the newly revised tune I just sent you. Fingers crossed. Let’s let the two controllers duke it out.

Last edited by TMScrogins; 04-10-2019 at 09:18 PM. Reason: added clarification regarding idle oscillation.
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post #430 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 06:58 PM
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Trevor,

I saw you mention that you had a macro to take the new VE number and export it to a chart. Is that something you'd be willing to share?

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post #431 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Trevor,



I saw you mention that you had a macro to take the new VE number and export it to a chart. Is that something you'd be willing to share?


Not a problem. Let me set it up to host it on the cloud and then Iíll post a link here!
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post #432 of 444 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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VE Calculator tool

Here is the link to my VE Calculator. I designed this too around the Infinity platform. I suppose you could use it on any platform as long as you are able to data log and export the data points required by my spreadsheet. The first tab outlines the instructions on how to use the calculator tool. It assumes you are using AEMData to manage and export your Infinity ECU datalogs. The directions on the first tab of the spreadsheet are tailored to this assumption.

See post #163 in this thread for more information: https://www.ffcars.com/forums/45-for...ml#post5388066

Let me know if you have any questions.

VE Calculator tool
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17Ih...ew?usp=sharing
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post #433 of 444 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 07:59 AM
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Hi Trevor, All,

Hope things are going well.

a couple of days ago. the car started to have this issue where there will be no response from the pedal. car works fine but when i press pedal there will be no response.

I took a log (send it by email).

I noticed that pedal values change when pressing on it but with no effect on the engine. Also there was a tracking error in red.



Thanks
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post #434 of 444 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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Hakeem,

Sorry to hear you are having problems with your throttle. First off, good job. You honed right in on the problem, you data logged and reviewed the log to discover the basic issue.

You obviously went to the DBW tab and noticed the DBW1_Error_Tracking channel is triggered. On the plot chart you can see where you press the throttle pedal to the floor and nothing happens. You can see that the DBW_Target goes to 100% which means the ECU sees your throttle input. But the actual Throttle% channel remains static as well as your direct TPS channels (DBW1_TPSA and DBW1_TPSB).

So what to make of this? Your tune appears to be good. What is happening is your throttle body sensed tracking errors. When it does that, it will shut down the throttle body as a safety precaution. There are several built-in safety parameters with all Drive-By-Wire systems. This one is specific to mismatched throttle positions. If the actual throttle position differs from the target throttle position for more than 1 second while the engine is running, it will disable the throttle output which is what you are experiencing.

This could be caused by several things. First, DBW systems are sensitive to voltage fluctuations. If the car had been sitting and battery voltage was low, this could have triggered the error. It could also be an electrical connection issue.

Further review makes it difficult to see just when the error tracking triggered. You captured the log after the vehicle was running.

Recommendations -
1) Make sure your battery is fully charged and make sure when the car is running, your alternator is charging.

2) Disconnect and reconnect your throttle body electrical connector and your throttle pedal electrical connector with battery disconnected.

3) Power cycle your ECU to clear out any errors. Your ECU is wired with a hot at all times so youíll need to disconnect the ground lead on the battery or unplug the two ECU connectors from the ECU to power cycle.

4) When you test it again, make sure you start your logging before you start the vehicle. If it errors out again, we want to see exactly when the tracking error gets triggered in the data log. This will help us further evaluate the cause.
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post #435 of 444 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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If I was a betting man, I would say what is causing this is your trans controller. Go back to posts #428 and 429. You indicated the transmission controller taps into the TPS signal which is basically overriding the throttle signal. Basically the Infinity ECU is commanding one thing, the trans controller is trying to override and command something else and boom, tracking error. This would almost certainly cause a mismatch under certain conditions.

If nothing is found to solve the problem in my previous post, then I would disconnect the trans controller from your throttle pedal and test it. If the problem goes away then that is your problem. In which case, I have no solution for you other than contact the trans controller manufacturer and inquire with them for a possible solution.
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post #436 of 444 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 10:08 AM
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Thanks,

I was going to mention the Trans controller. I think (I will double check with manufacturer) that the Trans controller only reading voltage from Pedal (not Throttle) sensor. I wired it to pedal sensor that has the more voltage range. however, it worked for a good one month with no issues.

Ok now here what I have done:
1) battery charged 13.20 v and disconnected.
2) checked wires on pedal and throttle sensor. seemed ok. (I disconnected connectors and reconnect).
3) I got two logs;
a) throttle problem 2 log : I started logging before startup I pressed pedal couple of time with no errors. then I started car and immediately I know something is wrong because when this throttle issue happens RPM tend to stick to 1200 but usually on cold start is a bit highr.
b) Throttle problem 3 log : with engine off ignition on. I removed intake and tried to see while depressing pedal if throttle moves or no. it didnt move any. not sure if it should or no but thought maybe this will help.

waiting for advise.
Thanks
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post #437 of 444 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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Another AEM Infinity ECU Install on a Coyote

Hakeem,

Look at the data log. Right when you turn the key and just after the engine begins turning over, you begin to see errors. I have two recommendations.

First as I stated earlier, I think you need to remove the trans controller from the equation and test. If the problem remains then it rules this out. If the problem goes away then we know the trans controller isnít playing nice with the DBW control. Even if the trans controller is only reading and not altering the signal, it is likely adding some resistance on the circuit causing a difference in voltage and/or resistance between the primary and failsafe circuits. When those circuits fall too far out of sync the DBW system will shut down. So even a simple ďsniffingĒ on one of the two control channels could cause the problem. You really need to rule out the trans controller.

Second, if we assume that the trans controller is not causing any problems, then I would go through the wizard and run the DBW setup/calibration again. If you need details on this process, refer to my DBW tuning part 1 video.

Good luck.

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post #438 of 444 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 08:33 AM
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100 % right. I disconnected transmission controller wires and the problem went away. I will check with performance automatic about this issue maybe they have solution for it.
Meanwhile any other solution we can make through programming and tuning?

Thanks
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post #439 of 444 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 07:05 PM
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My thought is the trans controller is acting as a current sink which is causing the signal voltage to drop. If you can make something to limit the current it pulls that may work. I know we talked about it in my college circuits and electronics classes but being on the mechanical engineering path I didn't let that fully sink into memory.

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post #440 of 444 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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You are now out of my realm of knowledge. Iím just a shade tree hack tuner and pretty much a hack everything else. There is nothing I can do on the tuning/software side. The only crazy idea I can think of is instead of tapping just one channel of the 2-channel app signal, you split and tap both A and B channels. Maybe whatever draw is taking place, it would take place on both the primary and secondary circuits similarly keeping the tolerances in check. But now you are playing with fire. I personally am not comfortable with trying to fake out a drive-by-wire system where these circuits exist specifically so that Darwinís theory does not need to be unnecessarily tested.

Perhaps a simple diode to allow the voltage to only flow one way? I think Q4Stix and likely others on this forum have better ideas on how you might solve this problem. I would defer to those guys smarter than me in this area. At least you now know where the problem lies now.
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post #441 of 444 (permalink) Old 08-22-2019, 09:18 AM
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My thought is the trans controller is acting as a current sink which is causing the signal voltage to drop. If you can make something to limit the current it pulls that may work. I know we talked about it in my college circuits and electronics classes but being on the mechanical engineering path I didn't let that fully sink into memory.
you are right. I did put two diodes on each wire. that allow current from pedal sensor to TCM only and it worked.

put before doing this and out of sudden check engine light came on (solid) however in AEM it doesnt show any sensor errors. I sent (Trevor) a log. If you please can look at it and confirm that its not a sensor error so I can start checking wires maybe its shorted to ground somewhere.

Thanks for the Support
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post #442 of 444 (permalink) Old 08-22-2019, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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Another AEM Infinity ECU Install on a Coyote

Hakeem,

I have found your problem on the MIL light. Since you wired it as I originally suggested, a blinking light would suggest an engine protection trigger, and a solid light would indicate a sensor error. Thus your suggestion that you might have a sensor error is a reasonable deduction. However, this is not the problem. Your sensors are all good. We know this because if you follow your data logs and look at your MILOutput channel, you will notice that it remains a "0" value all the way through indicating sensors are good and this is not triggering your light. See here.
Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 2.39.17 PM.jpg

Your wiring is good. Don't mess with that. The problem is your LS1_Duty output table is setup wrong. Did you recently re-flash your ECU or update your firmware or something? You should have MILOutput on the X-axis and EngineProtectOut on the Y-axis (Go to your Outputs tab and find LS1_Duty table). But instead you have AirTemp as the X-Axis value and anytime the AirTemp is over 34 degrees F, it is turning your light on solid (100%). See here.
Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 1.24.14 PM.png

This should be set to a value of 0 and 1 under MILOutput on the X-Axis. See here.
Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 1.24.46 PM.png

So, you need to go back into your Wizard and select Output Function Assignment and select Lowside 1 Output Setup and reconfigure. Then it should work.
Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 2.46.10 PM.jpg

Trevor
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Last edited by TMScrogins; 08-23-2019 at 09:49 AM.
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post #443 of 444 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 04:21 PM
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Thanks Again for the support!

well I did install infinity tuner on a new laptop and opened AEM from there. I am not sure if this is the issue or i just changed numbers by mistake dunno. I will do it tomorrow. Thanks
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post #444 of 444 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, this is why you lost the X-Axis label assignment. You did a fresh install. The latest version of Infinity Tuner software has a bug in it. I had AEM fix the bug and send me a patch file that updates one of the wizards. I sent this fix file to you a long time ago. Any time you do a new load of the software, you will need to replace the revised patch file with the existing wizard file... At least until AEM pushes out a release that actually fixes this. Otherwise you will not be able to assign the X-Axis label to MILOutput. This is why it reverted to some other label value.

I will resend you the file (email) just in case you donít have it. You will need to copy it (and replace the current one) in the following directory. Program Files (x86)\AEM\Infinity Tuner\Plugins\AEM\Resources\

Trevor
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