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  • 1 Post By weendoggy
  • 1 Post By Gordon Levy
  • 1 Post By railroad
  • 1 Post By JKleiner
  • 1 Post By 2FAST4U
  • 1 Post By MauiKarl
  • 1 Post By Norm B
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Unread 11-08-2019, 10:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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And then the bottom fell out

So I was really excited last week as I got my temp plate and went for a test drive.
Up and down my road first to make sure things were ok. Then on to the open road. Car was making a rattling noise under acceleration so went back home.
Talked to Mark and redid the valve lash.
Two of the valves opened up much farther then the other 14. After new push rods and running a drill on the oil pump to make sure the lifters where pumped up we could not figure out what it was so the top end came off.
Took out the two different acting lifters and they looked great.
Then pulled out another lifter and that showed some major issues. The bottom end that runs on the cam was concave.
Can you find the two good ones in the pic?
So that meant the cam was shot too, sigh....
All the front accessories removed and the cam is out. Now for the new parts.

It was strange too because I drained the oil and opened up the filter before doing all this and did not see any metal parts.

When I got the engine firing many moons ago I had no clue that I had a flat tapped cam. It was all part of an Edelbrock top end kit This needs a zinc additive to make sure it lasts, and that is how it happened. Guess I’m a little disappointed in my engine builder. Would’ve thought that would’ve been a recommendation he would’ve made.
I guess there is a reason he is now out of business.

At least I now know why my engine just was not performing right.
Makes me wonder if my Fast EZ was fine in the end, and it was just the engine acting up....

Why did I think I was going to be able to enjoy my car?

John

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Unread 11-08-2019, 10:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That is really a major bummer. The only issue you have now is "how much fine shavings" went through that engine. Hate to say it but I'd be doing a complete all over. Nothing wrong with roller cams either.

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Unread 11-08-2019, 10:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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That really sucks. I have to ask why you went with flat tappet instead of roller? I have seen flat tappets do that a lot.
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Unread 11-08-2019, 10:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Sorry for the problem. You can go no where but forward, now. Go ahead and pull the engine, it will be full of metal, first hand experience.
Your block and everything else, less the oil pump, should be good.
There are so many good roller cams out there, you will be way ahead when you get it back together.
Get educated on the roller cam material and distributor gear compatibility.
Watching for reports on your progress.
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Unread 11-08-2019, 10:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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That really sucks. I have to ask why you went with flat tappet instead of roller? I have seen flat tappets do that a lot.
Gordon,

I bought an Edelbrock top end kit and it was part of it.
The original cam was a roller. If I knew then what I know now.....
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Unread 11-08-2019, 11:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Man, that sucks Jon. Break in on flat tappets is very critical or they'll do just exactly what yours did. As soon as they fire up the RPM needs to go to about 2,500 for the first 20-30 minutes. Often times with a flat tappet cam running high valve spring pressures the break in will be done with "soft" springs which are then changed out. Just curious if it had been run before you installed it and if not did you go through a break in procedure? Sorry to hear about your luck and I hope you're back in business soon.

Jeff
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Unread 11-09-2019, 12:16 AM   #7 (permalink)
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That sucks. It happened to me when I built my first roadster with a 429/460 big block. I used a mechanical flat tap pet cam and the same thing happened to me. The engine lasted 20 minutes. Cost me $4000 to rebuild. The fine metal shavings became a lapping compound and destroyed everything . Went with a roller cam.
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Unread 11-09-2019, 02:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKleiner View Post
Man, that sucks Jon. Break in on flat tappets is very critical or they'll do just exactly what yours did. As soon as they fire up the RPM needs to go to about 2,500 for the first 20-30 minutes. Often times with a flat tappet cam running high valve spring pressures the break in will be done with "soft" springs which are then changed out. Just curious if it had been run before you installed it and if not did you go through a break in procedure? Sorry to hear about your luck and I hope you're back in business soon.

Jeff
Jeff,

Yeah I ran it for 2,500 for 30 min after it was first up and running.
Think the lack of zinc additives did the engine in
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Unread 11-09-2019, 06:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Wow John that’s a major bummer! If that happened to me I’d buy a coyote and drive!
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Unread 11-09-2019, 12:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Wow John that’s a major bummer! If that happened to me I’d buy a coyote and drive!
Contemplated that but I don’t have Coyote money right now. Also (and this may sound weird looking at my car) I think the older engines look better in these cars.
Maybe, just maybe there will be an 8 stack in the far future.

John

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Unread 11-09-2019, 07:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ouch!!!
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Unread 11-10-2019, 06:25 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I run an Edelbrock flat tappet camshaft and have used this oil from day one. If you decide to continue with a flat tappet cam, I highly recommend it.


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Unread 11-11-2019, 01:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Bummer...Big Time...
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Unread 11-11-2019, 11:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Sorry to hear the bad news John. I had the same thing happen on a 460 years ago. It sent small shavings through the whole motor. Fingers crossed you can polish your crankshaft, but all of the bearings should be replaced, including cam bearings. Thoroughly clean the block and all components that are still good, and replace the oil pump! You'll have to remove your rings and keep them with the pistons they came off from and thoroughly clean the pistons/ring groove area and clean the rings. I would switch to a roller cam and lifters just to keep from having the problem again.

Good Luck
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Unread 11-14-2019, 11:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I decided to contact the cam research shop and they are making me a new cam for the same money as a new Edelbrock cam including the break in of the cam and lifters.
New cam will create more HP too. Silver lining....


Cam-King | Cam Reseach ? Custom Ford Camshafts

John
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Unread Yesterday, 03:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Never seen that before, and if you are determined to stick with a flat tappet cam looks like a great idea. The price certainly seems reasonable. Still, if it was me , at the point you are at, I would still go with a roller.
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Unread Yesterday, 07:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Never seen that before, and if you are determined to stick with a flat tappet cam looks like a great idea. The price certainly seems reasonable. Still, if it was me , at the point you are at, I would still go with a roller.
$$ determining my choice right now.
$1,000 vs $330
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Unread Yesterday, 10:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hey, I get that - money is always a factor - but I'm pretty sure you can go to a roller for less than $1k . A quick search revealed a Trickflow cam for $265, Trickflow (Pac racing) valve springs for $75, retainers $70, and Ford racing hi-perf lifters for $170. all decent, popular, and proven parts for the 5.0. Of course you can easily spend way more than that but you could also probably shave another $100 off also without sacrificing quality. (believe me - I am a penny pinching mofo).
Anyways, not trying to twist your arm - just want to make sure you are comparing apples to apples.
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Unread Yesterday, 11:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't get how you came up with a $1000 for a cam and lifter set?
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Unread Today, 12:02 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't get how you came up with a $1000 for a cam and lifter set?
To go to a roller I need a cam, lifters, new springs, spring seats, push rods and a lifter retainer. By the time I was said and done it was around $970.

John
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