AAAAAAARG so sick of set backs - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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AAAAAAARG so sick of set backs

Well last year I had some engine issue where the car would not stay running. I did a complete reset of the Fast EZ hand held and then cleaned the spark plugs and O2 sensor. Once I started it up I adjusted the adjustment screw to allow for more air to come in. Then she idled good.
Last night I wanted to see how the lights work in the dark so started it up and it was idling at 2,000RPM. Got the Allan wrench out and adjusted once more to get back to about 1,000RPM.
engine was running nicely for a while so I got in, put it in reverse and backed out of the garage.
Halfway the drive way it just stalled out of no where again.
Let it cool down, pulled all the plugs, cleaned them and put them back in.

Adjusted the adjustment screw to allow more air again and she started up so I could get it back in the garage (it's now after 10pm)

This morning it started up again without issue so I pulled it outside to let it idle for a good long while. After adjusting a little more she ran nicely at 1,000RPM at idle.

Still the exhaust is very black and is leaving a mark on the driveway.
As I was filming that to get opinions from you guys I wanted to rev it a bit but you can hear it just stalls out again. Now the car had been idling for probably a good 30 min no problem.

Then when trying to re-start the car just doesn't want to catch. You can also see smoke coming from the breather cap while trying to start.


Then when you pull a spark plug they look like the attached pic.


What in the Sam is going on?

https://youtu.be/cDNLbWi7nH4


https://youtu.be/J5JzoBfJcXI

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File Type: jpg IMG_3024.jpg (231.8 KB, 23 views)

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 01:13 PM
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If you have a O2 sensor in the exhaust, make sure your exhaust is air tight upstream of the sensor.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 03:36 PM
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It is extremely rich - to the point of fouling the plugs. Before you do anything else you will have to replace the spark plugs. Once that is done, you can try to determine the cause. If you have a wideband gauge see what it says - if not you need some way to access the O2 readings that the ecu is seeing. Look for a missing vacuum hose - check fuel pressure, etc. Don't waste your time cleaning the plugs - replace them. Probably wouldn't hurt to replace the O2 sensor too. Also, take it out and drive it, while monitoring the O2 readings if possible.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 05:20 PM
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I have a somewhat similar issue with FAST.

My FAST EZ-EFI-2.0 has intermittently lost the idle settings so it would not idle unless I had my foot on the gas. it would just die otherwise. Ran fine otherwise, but a PITA, especially at a red light. Happened 15 times in 24 months. Redo basic tune through handheld without adjusting idle screw or anything else, and it idles fine. I've done it on the side of the road sometimes - takes about 2 minutes. Talked to FAST, and they never heard of it before (right!). Sent back the ECU and O2 sensor, and they said everything was fine! Still having the issue and still chasing gremlins.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 08:54 PM
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Well I hate to tell you this, but it's the piece of sh-t EZ-EFI-2. Levy sold me that hunk of junk, told me how good it was, just install it and it'll be fine, BS lies. He wouldn't even stand behind it and help me try to get it running
I spent over a grand trying to make it work, sent the computer back 2 times. The car was so pig rich it could barely keep running. After throwing a fit with Fast, they admitted it wasn't a tunable system and would only work well with a near stock engine. They agreed to swap the sh-t EZ2 for an XFI Sportsman. It was plug and play with the installed wiring harness. 100% world of difference, the car is actually drivable, and is fully tunable, you just need to understand the 'why' of tuning. You could not give me an EZ 2
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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My O2 sensor was not in the right place. Remedied that issue and got a new O2 sensor and spark plugs.
Talked to FAST and they told me the butterfly valve in the throttle body was to far open and gave me some numbers to look for when its running.

Engine starts up fine but seems to be getting to much fuel when it stall out as the throttle body is super saturated when I look in there.

Can't rev the engine because it will bog down which sounds like its not getting enough fuel.


Not sure what to make of it.


John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Dol View Post
My O2 sensor was not in the right place. Remedied that issue and got a new O2 sensor and spark plugs.
Talked to FAST and they told me the butterfly valve in the throttle body was to far open and gave me some numbers to look for when its running.

Engine starts up fine but seems to be getting to much fuel when it stall out as the throttle body is super saturated when I look in there.

Can't rev the engine because it will bog down which sounds like its not getting enough fuel.


Not sure what to make of it.


John
Exactly the same thing I went through. DEMAND an exchange for the XFI Sportsman. It won't rev because the plugs are being drowned.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Rich,

I got mine second hand so not sure I can do that unfortunately.

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:18 PM
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Crap! not great news John, I'm about where you are in my build and have the same EFI. Ive started it and went down the street but I haven't really driven it. I sure hope my experience is different. I did some online research and guys are saying if you have a big cam and low vacuum it wont work right. To replace your ecu for the XFI street it looks like $621 ouch!
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Coupe #641 started 6/19/14. Levy stage 4 347, Super Alloy T5, FAST EFI, IRS, Willwoods, Fast Freddie's EHPS, Custom Carbon dash. More mods to come I'm sure.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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Working on the timing and then need to run some diagnostics upon recommendations from the Fast EZ tech. Will keep you guys posted.

Thanks,

John


Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 11:26 PM
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John, I've been following this thread closely. Same as MauiKarl, I'm using the FAST EZ 2.0, and I'm close to getting ready for a first start. I hope it ends up to be just the timing issue, or something else fairly simple. Stay with it, you'll figure it out
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 03:16 PM
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There is an excellent article today in Street Muscle by Jeff Smith which details the shortcomings of wideband O2 sensors and self learning EFI systems which may explain what is happening. Basically, once you start to use a cam with more overlap, the ECU continuously richens up the idle mixture due to excess free oxygen in the exhaust until it eventually won't run anymore. The problem gets progressively worse each time the car is started because the way the self learn process is stored in the ECU. If you continue to have problems after you get the timing sorted, it would probably be worth your while to investigate. It is possible to remedy the condition if you can access the software in the ECU but some of the simpler systems may not have that capability.
https://www.streetmusclemag.com/tech...s-limitations/
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 12:27 AM
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John,

I'll bet that you could rip that fuel injection off and put a carburetor on in less time than it takes to read everyones helpful suggestions. Once I washed the dirt out of the float bowls, set the float levels and set the idle mixture with a vacuum gauge, my QuickFuel carburetor has been great. It needs to warm up before you drive away when it is cold, but I will take that. It's just simple.

Your car and the build quality look outstanding.

Glen
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gsides9 View Post
John,

I'll bet that you could rip that fuel injection off and put a carburetor on in less time than it takes to read everyones helpful suggestions. Once I washed the dirt out of the float bowls, set the float levels and set the idle mixture with a vacuum gauge, my QuickFuel carburetor has been great. It needs to warm up before you drive away when it is cold, but I will take that. It's just simple.

Your car and the build quality look outstanding.

Glen
Thanks Glen,

Trust me the thought has crossed my mind a few times (that and Webber 8 stacks )

Going to give it a valiant effort to try and get it dialed in but have already received similar advise.

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 02:46 PM
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I'm in a similar situation with a Fitech unit. Turns out the cam I had in the engine was driving the control issue. Lobe separation and low vacuum appear to be the culprit. I talked to the Director of Ops from Isky Cams last weekend at the Summit show in norwalk. Showed him the specs for the current cam (Mother Thumpr) and he told me to get rid of it. Spec'd a cam and said he could grind it on Monday. While walking away from that discussion, I saw the Fitech display and stopped to talk to him. Showed him the current cam and he said to get rid of it too. These systems will not work with such low vacuum systems. I asked for his recommendation for a cam in my 351. He gave me nearly the same specs that Isky gave me. The cam will be here tomorrow. I'll get it installed and report back.

Scott
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Scott,

I looked at that as well. My cam was fine though at 11" of vacuum.

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Update on (lack of) progress. Spoke to FAST again. Their tech says that because of the short exhaust systems the systems will never run right. Apparently it draws in false air through the pipes. Solution, ditch the brain and buy an XFI street module that then has to be tuned. $630 for the module plus tuning cost.....

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 10:37 AM
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Man, that's a bite! When the guy most qualified to help you thinks that he can't ... your about done. Maybe it's time for a carb.

I'm Glenn. Find me at "Team Limer" on Facebook

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