EdwardbĚs Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build - Page 4 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #91 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-08-2018, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Running defrost in recirculating mode often results in windshield fogging. Had to educate lots of customers on this in one of my prior lives in the dealership

Jeff
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I'm assuming that a coupe caught in a rainstorm is almost undriveable without defroster/defogger and wiper system, and that an AC vent blasting on the WS would clear that up.
The issue Im talking about is the other 99% of the time would the leaking A/C air from the defroster vent cause that annoying water condensation on the outside of the windshield that would then streak up all the time? Anyhow, maybe that's a topic for a seperate post lol.
We'll see what happens. I'm not changing anything any further with the A/C - Heat system in the Coupe build. Even though it has a top and more creature comforts than the Roadster (sort of) it's still at the end of the day for me a fair weather car that will be driven in relatively mild weather and not intentionally in the rain. Not exactly the same regimen a DD sees. That plus the not so air tight interior I mentioned earlier. If it's really an issue once I get it on the road (which I'm guessing it won't be, maybe optimistically) wouldn't be that hard to add some kind of blast gate to the defroster circuit. Back to the build...


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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post #92 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 01:55 PM
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FWIW, I've been in several rain storms in my roadster with the soft top on and no side windows. The only method of defogging the inside of the windshield quickly was the AC. Switching from AC to heater takes some time for the heater core to warm up and overcome the cold AC core. The AC dehumidifies the air while the heater delivers warm moist air. The heater may do the job given time but while driving down the road seconds count. Switching back to AC removed the fog quickly. Even though the AC/heater is in constant recirculation mode with the intake inside the car, there is a copious amount of air being exchanged inside to outside.

Also, I've never experienced the AC causing condensation on the windshield but perhaps Texas doesn't have the 100% humidity found in Florida.

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post #93 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 08:11 PM
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Gen 3 Coyote has sprayed on cylinder liners?

I happened upon a Youtube video of some Ford engineers discussing the 2018 Mustang and I think they said it has sprayed or sputtered on cylinder liners to gain a very small increase in the bore and decrease engine weight.
So my question is when has that ever ended well? If that is true and I was in the market for a Coyote (and I am not) I think I would go with the Gen2 and the steel liners.

Comments?


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2005 FFR Mk3 Roadster, 302/340hp, MassFlo EFI, Breeze Pulleys, T5, Aluminum Flywheel, 3-link rear with Torsen Diff and 3.27:1 gears, Power Steering, Breeze Front Sway Bar, SN-95 Spindles with outboard SAI Mod, Breeze Battery Mount, QA1 Externally Adjustable Shocks, Quick Release Steering Wheel, Vintage Race seats, GM Arctic White, Sky Blue Scoop, Hidden Hinges, Billet Aluminum Side-view Mirrors, 2,183lbs wet. 1967 Mustang Fastback, Dark Moss Green, black interior, '67 14" styled steel wheels, 2000 Explorer 302 w 5.0 Cam, Quickfuel 450 CFM, 289 Hi-Po Dual exhaust, C4, lowering springs w Shelby drop.
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post #94 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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I happened upon a Youtube video of some Ford engineers discussing the 2018 Mustang and I think they said it has sprayed or sputtered on cylinder liners to gain a very small increase in the bore and decrease engine weight.
So my question is when has that ever ended well? If that is true and I was in the market for a Coyote (and I am not) I think I would go with the Gen2 and the steel liners.

Comments?
Hey Mark. I hear you. Sounds a little like Chevy Vega days again, right? Aluminum block without a steel liner. (I was one of their victims. Boy that was a while ago...). But what Ford is doing with the Gen 3 Coyote isn't new and is apparently well proven. It's called the plasma transfer wire arc process. For Ford, they've been using it in the GT500 engine since 2011. It's also used in the latest GT350 Voodoo engine. Now taking it from those lower quantity but high performance engines to the masses with the base Coyote starting with the Gen 3. I'm reading test cases of 250,000 miles and still good. It's also used in the Nissan GT-R and other industries such as aerospace gas turbines. Looks like solid technology. I'm OK with it.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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post #95 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:15 PM
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Oh please, not like the Vega! I was in the dealerships when those were new



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post #96 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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Oh please, not like the Vega! I was in the dealerships when those were new



Jeff
It's not remotely the same. Hopefully you read my whole post. But that was the first thing I thought of when I read the Gen 3 release info. Mark kind of reminded me of it again.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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post #97 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:26 PM
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It's not remotely the same. Hopefully you read my whole post. But that was the first thing I thought of when I read the Gen 3 release info. Mark kind of reminded me of it again.
Yeah, I read your post Paul, and like you the Vega debacle thought crossed my mind upon first hearing of the process until learning more

As an aside I can remember Vega blocks stacked up outside the service department like ricks of firewood!

Jeff

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post #98 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 09:57 PM
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So it is not Nikasil or it is a better process?

From a common Jaguar AJ V8 engine problems list:

AJ-V8
The AJ-V8 was designed to use Nikasil-coated cylinders rather than the more-common iron cylinder liners. However, like the BMW M60, high-sulphur fuel reacted with the Nikasil liners and caused engine failures. Jaguar replaced affected engines, and has used conventional cast-iron linings ever since.

Longevity is probably not a real issue in these cars as very few are even close to daily drivers. (exc. Ralph Button )


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2005 FFR Mk3 Roadster, 302/340hp, MassFlo EFI, Breeze Pulleys, T5, Aluminum Flywheel, 3-link rear with Torsen Diff and 3.27:1 gears, Power Steering, Breeze Front Sway Bar, SN-95 Spindles with outboard SAI Mod, Breeze Battery Mount, QA1 Externally Adjustable Shocks, Quick Release Steering Wheel, Vintage Race seats, GM Arctic White, Sky Blue Scoop, Hidden Hinges, Billet Aluminum Side-view Mirrors, 2,183lbs wet. 1967 Mustang Fastback, Dark Moss Green, black interior, '67 14" styled steel wheels, 2000 Explorer 302 w 5.0 Cam, Quickfuel 450 CFM, 289 Hi-Po Dual exhaust, C4, lowering springs w Shelby drop.
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post #99 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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From a common Jaguar AJ V8 engine problems list:

AJ-V8
The AJ-V8 was designed to use Nikasil-coated cylinders rather than the more-common iron cylinder liners. However, like the BMW M60, high-sulphur fuel reacted with the Nikasil liners and caused engine failures. Jaguar replaced affected engines, and has used conventional cast-iron linings ever since.

Longevity is probably not a real issue in these cars as very few are even close to daily drivers. (exc. Ralph Button )
No, it's not Nikasil. Here's an interesting article on the process. Even addresses how it's different than the Jaguar event. https://jalopnik.com/5467038/the-for...he-nissan-gt-r.

But probably safe to say Mark isn't buying it.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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post #100 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Trunk Box Fabrication

Last week I made it to the Alro Metals Outlet not too far from me, as mentioned in my last update. Mission was to get some sheet aluminum for the trunk box I’m adding plus a couple other possible things I’ll be fabricating. It’s a pretty impressive place with a lot to choose from, including a whole bunch of reasonably priced remnants of every shape, size and metal. Unfortunately, they had almost no 6061 .040 sheet aluminum remnants. They offered to cut a piece from a full sheet, but it was 50% more than buying it on-line even with the added shipping. But I looked around and found some 5052. A couple pieces of .040 and a pretty large piece of .063 for a grand total of $31.69. Easily twice as much as needed for the trunk enclosure, so plenty left for other projects. I was planning to make the enclosure out of all .040. But the slightly thicker material on the floor and folding lid on the top is probably a good thing. The guy said I would like how 5052 bends, and in my very basic Harbor Freight brake, he was right. I could definitely tell it’s a little softer than 6061. Almost “gummy” to cut. I'm not going to use it for anything structural (even though it would probably be OK) but it’s fine for this use and the price was certainly right.

This is the box I came up with. Pretty straightforward. Cut, bend, rivet. Repeat until done. It’s 23 inches long, 16 inches wide, and 5-1/2 inches deep, not including the mounting flange around the edges. That’s a couple inches wider than the similar mod installed in #8674. Fits easily into the available space above the tank in the Coupe, and the lid swings without hitting anything.



Since this area is exposed under the rear glass hatch, decided to also make a lid. Borrowed liberally from the pictures on the Dark Water Customs site. I hinged it so that it’s split in the middle. Back half can be opened by itself, or the whole thing flipped over. I’ll have a piece of edged carpet over the lids, attached only to the rear section. Still need to figure out some kind of pull or handle. The stainless piano hinges are from McMaster.



Once it’s time to install, will need to do some final trimming on the box to fit around the chassis tubes in the area and also cut a hole in the existing floor. Some relocate the chassis tubes in the Roadsters with this mod. I’ve done the mod twice on Roadsters and didn’t. They appear to be even more structural on the Gen 3 Coupe, so that isn’t anything I’m remotely considering. I’ve found using the storage area with the cross braces isn’t a big deal. Probably some will notice I didn’t put the fuel gauge sender access panel in the new box. I also won’t have one in the pump area. I don’t find dropping the tank to be a big deal, especially with a lift, so I prefer not to mess around with the access panels. In multiple seasons, have only had to drop the tank once and that was when I upgraded the pump and hanger in #8674. Nothing had actually failed. Probably shouldn’t say that out loud…

Received a few more pieces off my shopping list last week. Picked up the Tilton 60-6104 hydraulic throwout bearing I’m going to use instead of the more traditional TOB and clutch arm setup. Actually they call it a Hydraulic Release Bearing (HRB). Oh good. Another acronym. It appears to be an extremely high quality piece. I’m very impressed. Hope it works as good as it looks. Checked what I could and it appears that it will fit OK. Also picked up a Moroso 63806 coolant expansion tank. Like I did with #8674, planning to plumb the cooling system the same as a Mustang versus using a T-filler and overflow tank. Ford said the plumbing is unchanged on the Gen 3 Coyote, and the Moroso tank is also now advertised for the 2018 Mustang. So should be good to go. I’m not sure where it will be mounted just yet. I’m thinking somewhere in this area. But won’t know until the real engine, intake, etc. is installed. It looks like the intake would still fit behind it, but not sure yet. Will need to figure out some mounting brackets.


Also received the Breeze #35317 Locking Aero Fuel Cap. Another high quality part. I've used this cap on each of my builds and like it a lot. With a little bit of trimming, fits perfectly into the LeMans cap. Seals things up and provides a solid lock. I’ve spent quite a bit of time over the last couple days planning what I want to do with the instrument panel. Starting to get a little more focused I think. Trying to come up with the right layout, switches, etc. that looks decent and belongs together. I’ll have something to share eventually.

This Saturday we’re having a club event (Great Lakes Cobra Club) here at our house. Couple years ago when #8674 was going together, invited everyone over for coffee, donuts, and sharing about the build. It was a lot of fun and had a good turnout. So we’re doing the same with the Coupe build. Looking forward to it. Once that’s done, the back half of the body is coming off and I’ll dig into drilling and fitting aluminum panels. It’s time.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 03-13-2018 at 11:41 AM.
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post #101 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-16-2018, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Wipers Plus

My build plan includes wipers and I’m going to do washers as well. Both are required by the Michigan safety inspection. I’ve gotten away without washers on the Roadster builds thanks to sympathetic LEO’s. But not going to try again, plus maybe with this build the wipers and washers might actually be usable and necessary. But I don’t want to work through the Lucas drama for wipers again, so looked for an alternative. Found reference to a company Specialty Power Windows located in Georgia on several other forums. Seemed all good. They sell various performance car power windows and wiper setups, including a universal wiper system WWK-2. Pretty old school. You actually have to call them to order. What??? Found that Speedway sells their products, was in stock, and with a few clicks here two days later. Looked it over today, put together enough to see how it works, and have a basic plan for installing. The overall design is similar to the Lucas variety with a moving cable going through wheelboxes. But it’s quite heavy duty and seems rock solid. Configuration, direction, and amount of sweep are all adjustable. Also in my digging around, found reference to a wiper/washer switch that does everything the usual DD does. Push for washer and several wipes, variable intermittent, high, low, and park. Cool! The one I bought is a Cole Hersee 75600-04. They sell a bunch of variations. After studying the switch schematic and the wiper setup, determined this was the right one. Clipped everything together temporarily, and it all works as it’s supposed to. The wiper kit doesn’t come with arms or blades. Need to figure that out. But even once those are added, what I’m going to install will still be cheaper than the usual Lucas knock-off and I think (hope) quite a bit better.

Had to chuckle a little bit. The literature says these wipers were the Best New Product of the Year at the 1991 NSRA nationals. My first reaction was these are maybe kind of an old design. Then on second thought realized that's 30 years or so newer than the Lucas style wipers. OK, that's progress. Here are some pics.

Inside of main mechanism. Orientation of the drive wheel determines direction. Different holes to adjust the amount of sweep. The wheel boxes come with a long driveshaft that can be shortened, which I probably will need to do. Everything gets packed with grease when assembled for good.


Motor and the Cole Hersee switch. I’ll be changing out the knob to match the others on the dash. Drive cable is in the background.


Expect to mount somewhere in this vicinity. Plenty of room and should link up OK with the wheelboxes.


I mentioned before about picking up the Breeze locking gas cap and installing into the LeMans cap. Got that done the other night. I’ve shown this including a full description in my other build threads, so won't repeat the details. Cut off the LeMans connection, hog out the flange for the regular cap, and bolt in. Not cheap, but an ideal setup IMO.



Spent more time on the interior layout. Feel like I’m about there. There are some amazing interiors out there. I’m trying to stay within the basic boundaries of the stock layout though. I’m thinking of putting together a small center switch panel. The ends will be boxed in and have the aux outlets. Only switches on the dash itself will be the ignition, headlights and horn button over by the gauges. Probably going to go keyless push button start. Turn signals will be the Russ Thompson unit with headlight low/high/flash to pass on the stalk button. Four A/C-Heat outlets on the face of the dash, and I’d really like to install a glovebox. Probably can’t be real deep because of all the hoses behind the dash, but I’m going to try. I’ll have to do some fabrication on the DS to move things over a bit to fit the outlet on that side. Brow piece is still optional at this point. I’m planning to have the panel with the gauges removable which opens the dash area for access and servicing. Thinking of finishes of vinyl, C-F and some red stitching. Along the lines of how the seats are finished. Something similar for door cards as well. Again, very preliminary but it’s a start. What do you think? At this point changes are as easy as cutting more kraft paper and printing switch images.



My first batch of powder coat pieces are promised for early next week. Also found out today Factory Five is sending out an update package for all Gen 3 Coupe buyers. There have been some sheet metal changes and maybe more. I’m really not sure. Some have gone out already. Mine is due in the next week or two. Good customer service Factory Five.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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post #102 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-16-2018, 11:11 PM
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Always enjoy the updates and it's looking great Paul! Gauges appear to be pretty near exactly vertical; is your view from the seat OK or are you considering tipping them a bit so that the faces are perpendicular with your line of sight?

Jeff

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post #103 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-16-2018, 11:28 PM
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Looks good Paul, nothing wrong with a stock approach!!
Think about interior lighting too. I’m working on that when I get my chassis back from the painter on the weekend.

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Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #104 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Always enjoy the updates and it's looking great Paul! Gauges appear to be pretty near exactly vertical; is your view from the seat OK or are you considering tipping them a bit so that the faces are perpendicular with your line of sight?

Jeff
Thanks Jeff. I have fun doing them. Glad you like the rambling. I'm expecting the gauges may move to the right just a little when I mod the dash to fit the DS HVAC outlet. So I haven't checked the sight lines much yet. Will adjust if necessary. Tipping them toward the driver is an interesting idea. I'll see about that. But not sure it's necessary. These particular gauges are bigger than the smallish Roadster gauges. Plus maybe you can see the smaller ones on the dash are sticking out some. They have spacer rings on the front right now that actually go on the back. Just haven't taken the time to change. So in final form they sit closer to the dash like the tach and speedo.

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Looks good Paul, nothing wrong with a stock approach!! Think about interior lighting too. I’m working on that when I get my chassis back from the painter on the weekend.

John
Thanks John. Yea, I'm planning LED downlights on the underside of the dash ends on the courtesy light circuit. Just didn't mention in this update. Watching your paint progress!

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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post #105 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-21-2018, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Body Off Plus

Itís been a busy week since the last update. Still forging ahead. I was hoping to have some powder coat parts back and start installing. But havenít gotten the call yet. But other things to talk about. I mentioned before we were going to have a Great Lakes Cobra Club event at our house. Happened last Saturday. Had a great turnout. After donuts and coffee, made it to the garage where I rambled for a while and then we just had a good time checking out the Coupe build, talking shop, and visiting with great friends. Then went to a barbeque place for lunch. Doesnít get better than that! Hope my buddies donít mind me posting these pictures. These are also in the public gallery on our clubís website, so should be OK here too.



Today I removed the body for the first time. But first a few other updates. During the open house we set the nose on the chassis to see what it looked like (good to have lots of help) and I took the opportunity to measure the clearance under the area where I wanted to put the triple reservoir for brakes and clutch. Was 4+ inches, so the 3 inches I planned for them above the frame was fine. Should give good flow into the master cylinders. I was going to just tap 1/4-20 threads into the frame. But decided to use heavy duty nutserts instead. Was interesting working in that tight space. But got it done and the reservoir mounted. I mounted it with the caps level. The top frame member angles down toward the front. I think itís going to work out well here.


Also decided to make some progress with the wiper installation. Unlike the Roadster, the Coupe has the wiper locations molded into the body. Nice flat surface to bolt against on the outside but not on the inside. After drilling the holes centered at the right location, found it a little challenging to get the wheel box bolted in adequately. But the wiper system came with 5/8-inch long steel spacers that are intended to be welded into a steel body if necessary. Decided to use those. Shaped the ends so they fit into the contours in the underside of the wiper locations. Then spot glued with HSRF using the wheelboxes to make sure they were at the right angle. When that set up, put a pretty big filet of HSRF around each. Doesnít look pretty, but doesnít need to. The wheel box mounts are now rock solid and held perfectly at the proper angle.


Cut and flared the tubes for the cable to run in.


Installed where they belong.


The wiper motor assembly came with a ďuniversalĒ mounting plate that I didnít use as is. Instead, harvested two pieces out of it, added as outriggers using the bolts already there holding the assembly together, and mounted some rubber shock mounts I had on hand. These will bolt to the firewall. Iíll get the final position and make up the last piece of tubing when the body goes on for the final fitting. I remain very pleased with this Specialty Power Windows (SPW) wiper system. It's kind of like the Lucas style system on steroids. Everything is bigger, heavier, and very solid. I've had it wired up a couple times and it seems to work very well. Now just need to find some arms and wiper blades. But plenty of time for that.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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post #106 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-21-2018, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Body Off Plus (continued)

Today my side windows were delivered. These are new for the Gen 3 Coupe. Similar I guess as previous ones, but I really donít know since I havenít seen any others. I had seen some preliminary pics, but not the final version. Consists of a powder coated metal frame, plexi insert with a sliding panel (pre-assembled BTW), mounting brackets to mount it to the door frame, rubber gasket material to mount the window into the frame, and a bunch of hardware. Even comes with an installation tool for the rubber gasket. Interesting. No instructions yet so Iím not positive how it all goes together. The packing list did show two pieces backordered. Listed as plexi rear quarter windows. I'm assuming the kit provided scoops are replaced with a flat piece? Makes sense, but I don't know for sure. I wonít be doing anything with this for a while. Iím sure there will be more information by then. This isnít the best picture, but snapped this pic with one of the frames and windows on my work bench. Not cheap, but Iím happy with the quality.


So today I removed the body for the first time. I had hooks in the ceiling of my other garage, and had removing and installing the Roadster body all figured out doing it by myself. Pretty easy actually once you follow the proper sequence. I decided to try using my lift (watch too many car shows on Velocity I guessÖ) to take the Coupe body off. So put the chassis on wheel dollies, tied the body to the arms of the lift, and slowly lifted it off. Itís similar to the Roadster in that the sides need to pulled out to clear the undersides and door hinges. Also once it starts to move, needs to go a foot or more back to clear the back of the frame. I used towels wherever it was contacting the frame, trying not to mark up the powder coat. Took it slow and worked OK. But unfortunately, with the lift all the way up the body still didnít clear the roll bar cage. So moved stuff around in the garage and was able to roll the chassis out of the way enough to set the body back down. I was going to use my Roadster body buck and modify as necessary. But it wasnít even close. Would have been a complete rebuild. But in the end, decided a buck wasnít even necessary. The sides of the body are straight and it sits flat on those with the back just slightly elevated. So Iím storing it that way with some blocks and towels under the back so thereís no pressure. It should be fine. Itís not particularly heavy. Maybe even lighter than the nose piece. But is a little bulky and floppy to move around. I decided to store it in the back of my Serpent Express trailer thatís parked outside by the garage. I donít use the trailer too much, and itís an easy in and out when I do. Also gave me a chance to see how the Coupe is going to fit into my 14-foot SE. Pretty much as expected, it doesnít. Looks like it will stick out the back 6-8 inches which would keep the back door from zipping up. Still useable, but not ideal. Anyway, some pics. I've been used to seeing the chassis with the body on. Sure looks different now.




Summary for me is that I was able to get the body off by myself. But 99% certain I wonít try that again. It would be really easy with a couple helpers, and thatís probably what Iíll do in the future. Next steps now will be to start locating and drilling aluminum panels.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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post #107 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-21-2018, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
I remain very pleased with this Specialty Power Windows (SPW) wiper system. It's kind of like the Lucas style system on steroids. Everything is bigger, heavier, and very solid.
The same can be said about the window regulator mechanisms from Specialty Power Windows. I'll add that the parts are easily modified and their tech support is very helpful. The units are a bit bulky, but with the other mods I made they will do the job nicely.
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post #108 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-22-2018, 05:14 PM
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I was concerned with a few areas of the body changing shape if unsupported. Our body was off for two years. We braced between the pontoons to stop spreading and twisting. Next we braced across the rocker panels to stop spreading. We built a brace to hold the cowl from sagging and attached that to the rocker brace. Last we braced the roof at the center of the windshield to prevent the roof from sagging. Your body may be back on fast enough that any of this could be a waste of time, but it was nice that the front and rear windows fit. Your cars look great and keep up the good work.

Glen
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Coupe 0652-408W/510 hp-TKO600 .64OD-3.73 TractionLok-3 Link-26x10 front 26x12 15" Mickey Thompson-Heat and A/C- Complete Kit-First Start 7/10/15 First Go Kart 8/15/15 Painted 11/12/16 Titled and Registered 3/24/17 Legally on the road 4/20/17
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post #109 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-22-2018, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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I was concerned with a few areas of the body changing shape if unsupported. Our body was off for two years. We braced between the pontoons to stop spreading and twisting. Next we braced across the rocker panels to stop spreading. We built a brace to hold the cowl from sagging and attached that to the rocker brace. Last we braced the roof at the center of the windshield to prevent the roof from sagging. Your body may be back on fast enough that any of this could be a waste of time, but it was nice that the front and rear windows fit. Your cars look great and keep up the good work.

Glen
Thanks for your comments. I'm only expecting the body off for some months. The way the main part of the boy is sitting right now -- with the pontoons flat on the ground and the rear supported -- I don't see how it's supported much less than if it were mounted on the chassis. The cowl I have propped up against the wall at the other end of the garage. It's sitting nose up with the other end flat on the ground. Also not stressful and don't see how it could be hurt that way. Once the weather is warmer, and I'm further along with the chassis, I'm planning to work on the body pieces outside (hate fiberglass dust indoors) to get them all cleaned up, trimmed, etc. then back on the chassis by fall. All should be fine.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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post #110 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 01:28 AM Thread Starter
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Aluminum Panels Ė Here We Go

Started serious work on the getting all the panels fitted, drilled, etc. prior to powder coat. Including installing the trunk box fabricated and shown earlier. But first some observations. While there are some similarities to the aluminum panel layout used in the Roadster, they are of course all different parts installed in a different sequence. Before removing them, I spent a lot of time reviewing the instruction manual confirming how they are installed, overlap direction, etc. I quickly realized that panel installation is in multiple places in the manual. I ended up taking quite a bit of time searching and finding all the panel installation steps (electronic version of the manual with searching is nice), listing them in sequence, and also listing the major steps between.

What I found is that 29 aluminum pieces are installed before the body, and 24 after the body is installed. Thatís very different than the Roadster, where all the panels except the splash guards and a couple pieces by the radiator can be mounted without the body installed. Explains why I had a little more trouble than I should have removing the body. Also has me re-thinking how Iím going to do heat and sound insulation. Some of the pieces that arenít installed until after the body are the sides and rear for the hatch/trunk area and the rear cockpit corners. Iíve masked and sprayed Lizard Skin on all of my builds, and was planning to do the same for the Coupe. But that was already looking a little tough with the additional obstacles (roll cage, etc.) and now not having all the panels installed first. Has me thinking as well about maybe putting insulation on the outside of the footboxes. Something Iíve avoided on previous builds because Iím not a fan of the look. But that might be the best solution here. More thinking and planning ahead on this subject.

One other observation. For the Roadsters Iíve found the panels were installed in the shipping locations with all the overlaps the direction they were supposed to be installed. I didnít find that to be the case here. The pictures and sequence shown in the instruction manual has a number of differences from how my kit was received. No big deal. Just an observation and something to watch.

Back to actual build progress, cut the hole in the floor piece, fit the trunk box around the frame rails, and have the floor and box clecoíd in. Happy with how it turned out. Iíll install the folding cover later after installing carpet. Next week Iíll finish the hatch/trunk area, work on the cockpit, and probably take the block and transmission back out so I can start working on the footboxes.



This is pretty minor, but after a couple tries found a shift lever Iím happy with. 6-inch long Hurst 5387201 is a good length and angle for my setup. Chrome plated steel so a nice solid piece, and wasnít expensive. The shift ball is one that came with my TKO on the last build, so not the right shift pattern on it. Iíll need to find something similar for the T-56. Iím impressed with how easily and precisely the T-56 clicks through all six gears. I think itís going to be a winner.


One last follow-up item. Received the Gen 3 side windows as described and pictured in a previous update. There was an open question about the rear quarter windows since the kit comes with a scoop for that opening. Not too useful if youíre trying to keep the elements out. I received the backordered quarter windows that go with the windows. They are designed to go on the inside of the quarter window opening. The outside scoops wouldnít need to be removed. But the inside panels would close the opening. Maybe the previous Coupes were the same way. But this is new to me and I had gotten a question or two.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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post #111 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 02:10 AM
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Ed with a custom layout, just make sure you can reach important switches when you are strapped in the harness.

Mike
Miami, FL
65 Coupe #439, Complete Kit, 3 Link, 4.6 SC Terminator Cobra Motor, MMR TKO 900, Megasquirt 3
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post #112 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 03:38 AM Thread Starter
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Ed with a custom layout, just make sure you can reach important switches when you are strapped in the harness.
No worries. What I'm mocking up now, which may or may not resemble the final version, is easily reachable when strapped in. Nothing is further away than the FF stock locations. Whatever the final result is will be the same. Thanks for your message and concern.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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post #113 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 10:53 AM
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Now that's a nice shifter!!!

Put deposit on Canadian kit 1/30/19
Pick up date 3/30/19
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post #114 of 312 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Still At It

Work on fitting and drilling panels continues. Rear hatch area almost done. Making good progress on the cockpit. Still on the same new drill bit I started with. (Probably shouldnít say thatÖ) Everything is fitting pretty well. Mainly just the usual minor tweaks on bends and needing to trim around welds occasionally. Iím planning to have the two front transmission covers removable. So will use countersunk rivets along the top edge of the floor pieces. That front hatch floor piece (removed in this picture, but just behind the rear cockpit wall ) is a bear. No less than four pictures in the manual showing exactly how to bend it to get in and out. Still not easy. Put some heavy duty tape on the roll bars or youíre liable to really scratch up the powder coat in the process.


I had this in my last build thread, but will show again. This 6-inch seamer/bender from Harbor Freight works great to adjust bends for this work. I use it a lot at this stage. https://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch...mer-98728.html


I mentioned before about needing to get a shift ball that I liked plus had the T-56 6-speed shift pattern on it. Then I was reminded that Tremec offers them for free if you go to their website and register your new Tremec transmission. Done. They have several varieties and either SAE or metric adapters. Nice quality pieces and the price is right.

The weather is finally starting to warm up. Hopefully will be able to get #8674 out of the garage soon and get some driving in. Will cut into build time. But Iím willing to make that sacrifice.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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post #115 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Powder Coat Plus

Received the call late last week that my first batch of 39 powder coat parts was done. I’m expecting some updated aluminum panels from Factory Five soon. The cockpit is fitted and drilled and just a little more to do in the hatch area. Then I’ll stop and wait for the updated panels. Meanwhile, picked up the powder coated parts and worked with those for a while. These I had done in gloss black to match the chassis. Mainly all the fabbed metal parts and the radiator tunnel and shroud. I’m planning to do the second batch, all the aluminum panels, in a similar silver as the Anniversary Roadster. Like the color, it’s easy to take care of, and looks good against the gloss black.

Everything looked good. Lots of parts. I know not everything will be visible once complete. But still like to have everything coated.


Installed the fan shroud and fan on the radiator. Not too visible here, but the fan shroud was just slightly too tall for the mounting on the radiator. Plus it needed to be up slightly at the bottom to not interfere with the tunnel because of the angle it sits at. So before powder coat, riveted a strip along the top with a spacer between. It slips down over the top of the flange on the top of the radiator and only has bolts on the bottom. They did a good job of keeping powder coat out of the slot. It was a tight fit without any coating.


I won’t mount the tunnel pieces or radiator permanently until after the engine is installed. Just makes it easier to reach, plus keep from banging things up. So just a couple clecos for now to see how it looks.


I spent some time assembling the door frames, hinges, door latches, handles, etc. Thought about cutting the doors open and installing the frames. But decided to wait until full on body work time. No need to be making fiberglass dust just yet. Plus I really want to fit the doors in the body before cutting anything. But still went ahead and temporarily put the door frames on the chassis. Everything fits and works really well. Very happy so far.


The hinges I had welded, shown in an earlier post, turned out really nice. The hinges and bear claw latch are rock solid. The hinges and part of the frame are exposed out of the front of the door.


Another builder posted a picture of the new Gen 3 windows and the mounting interfering with the door handle. So checked that out. Using the just received windows, determined where the mounting will be on the doors. Then where the instructions show to mount the inside door handle. Everything is fine. Clearly this has been sorted out. Also figured out the window brackets lower mounting bolts are intended to be through the door frame inside the door. Good. This is rough, but how things lay out. I’ll cut and drill later.


Another small project was to finish and install my in-tank fuel pump. I had everything I needed except for the step-down butt connectors. Received those, so finalized the assembly and installed in the fuel tank. The tank is ready for final installation. The connectors I ended up using are Molex 19164-0077. From DelCity, but available elsewhere. They’re crimp and heat shrink, and advertised specifically for harsh environments including gasoline. On #8674, I used similar connectors from West Marine, although not specifically listed for gasoline. I soaked those for a couple days and determined they were OK (and made for some interesting banter in my build thread…). But these look better. Minimum order was 10, so I had extras. I took the opportunity to practice and pull test the joints before installing them for real on the pump. Good thing. My first choice for the dies on my crimper didn’t work too well. Sorted that out and I think they came out fine. As mentioned before, this is a Pro-M Racing High Flow fuel pump hanger. Has full 3/8-inch supply and return lines and -AN6 connections. You can see in the pic how the return line goes to the bottom of the sump. Because of that, it’s a little challenging to install. The instructions show how to cut the fuel tank opening to allow it to fit in. I found you don’t have to cut it quite as much as they show. But still is necessary. That plus the usual twisting and turning to get the pump and filter through the opening and into position. So if you decide to go with this hanger, obviously best to do the trimming before putting fuel in the tank. I used a Walbro GSS340BX 255 lph fuel pump. Lots of discussion about what size pump to use with the Coyote. This is the same pump and fuel line setup as #8674, which has proven to work well.


Last up, received my Russ Thompson turn signal setup. Have been on the waiting list for a while, but sounds like he’s got another good supply of the VW turn signal assemblies so is now filling orders. He was still proving out the exact setup for the Gen 3 Coupe. Worked with Mike Everson on his build, and then sent me several different spacers with instructions to try. Was pretty easy to get sorted out and installed. I like this top mount better than the angled bottom mount used on the Roadsters. As I understand, new Roadster kits have a similar steering column mount now.


Was really hoping to be driving #8674 soon. Woke up Easter Sunday morning to snow. Grrr! It’s gone now, but still pretty chilly out. Come on. Meanwhile, plenty to do on the build.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 04-02-2018 at 07:25 PM.
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post #116 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 08:17 PM
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Looking good Paul.

You are on the right track with the doors.
You first want to hang the frames and make that work.
Remove the frames.
Then hang the body
Put the frames back on and fit the skins in the body opening.
Then mount to the frames.

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #117 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 03:29 AM
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if your doors fit like mine you will need to trim mostly from the back or you end up with a lot of washers under the latch striker. So yes fit the door frame and latch first then the door skin.
David W

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post #118 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 07:37 PM
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Awesome build Paul, really like your style and innovative thinking especially your choice of upgraded parts. Your craftsmanship is one cut above also!
Your build got me interested in building another FFR - Gen 3 coupe.
I noticed your first build page indicated you bought a "complete kit". With all the new parts why not choose a base kit? Trying which way to order since I'm planning a lot of similar upgraded parts as well.
Thanks,
BobMac
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post #119 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Awesome build Paul, really like your style and innovative thinking especially your choice of upgraded parts. Your craftsmanship is one cut above also!
Your build got me interested in building another FFR - Gen 3 coupe.
I noticed your first build page indicated you bought a "complete kit". With all the new parts why not choose a base kit? Trying which way to order since I'm planning a lot of similar upgraded parts as well.
Thanks,
BobMac
FFR3981

Bob McLaughin
Thanks Bob. Appreciate your comments. Even with some of the changes I made, the complete kit was still the way to go for me. I actually just spent a few hours the other day going through remaining boxes and consolidating unused parts into a single box. It's mostly small stuff and in many cases would be in the base kit as well. The larger items I didn't use, like the manual steering rack and seats, was able to sell pretty quickly on the forum. Some have had success in having unwanted parts removed for credit. But my experience with that hasn't been too good. Maybe I haven't tried hard enough. Regardless, what I've seen guys get credit for I can typically beat selling myself. Other stuff that is added to the complete kit -- like the wiring harness, lower control arms, spindles, fuel tank, etc. I was fine with what FF supplied. So no real reason to go elsewhere. I chose the upgraded big Wilwood brakes, so no reason to go elsewhere for brakes either. For the IRS option, I didn't go with the center section or spindles from FF. There's some potential saving to shopping around for those, plus in that case I did want something different than what FF offered. Your situation might be different, but after working through the build plan, it was a pretty easy decision for me to go with the complete kit. They're still fine tuning it, but FF did a very nice job with the Gen 3 Coupe. Come on in and join the party! Good luck whatever you decide.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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post #120 of 312 (permalink) Old 04-11-2018, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Lake Orion, MI
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Aluminum Panels Again

Finally, almost done with getting all the aluminum panels drilled and fitted. Everything is done except a couple around the footboxes, and I’m still not sure what is coming in the update package. So, will stop until that arrives.

The instructions don’t say anything about access panels (like on the Roadster DS footbox) or leaving the footbox top(s) removeable. At least that I found. But clearly it’s necessary. On the DS, provides the usual access to the Wilwood pedal box, master cylinders, etc. On the PS, with heat and A/C, also necessary IMO. The heater hose connections would be basically inaccessible without the top open. After considering the options, and also looking at Mike Everson’s build, decided I didn’t want or need the entire top panels to be removable. So I cut them roughly in line with where the body cowl extends over them. Added a small piece on the back of each panel that slides under the fixed portion. I’ll rivet those pieces on after powder coat. I’m using 10-32 SS flange head screws for hold downs and was originally going to just tap the threads into the frame tubes. But decided after doing a couple that there were only 2-3 threads, and since these could be used somewhat frequently, went ahead and put nutserts at each location. I ground down the welds some where the covers fit which allows them to sit down a little flatter. Also added nutserts for the heater control valve which mounts on the PS cover.




Next up I worked on installing the bulkhead connectors for the A/C and heater lines going into the PS footbox. Factory Five supplies very nice Vintage Air bulkhead connectors, and the instructions are quite detailed on how to locate and install them. Unfortunately, I managed to make a giant mess of this. I started with the A/C one, and here because of how short (and stiff) the lines would be inside the footbox, the alignment is quite important. After very carefully (I thought) checking and re-checking, drilled the holes, and (you guessed it) wasn’t really very close. The angles of everything make it pretty hard to figure out the exact location. At least for me. I adjusted the holes repeatedly until the alignment was OK, and at that point the bulkhead connector no longer covered my original holes. Grrr… So made little filler plates for each side that I flush riveted in place and are sandwiched in the bulkhead connector and all was good.

Moved to the heater hoses and this time spent even longer making sure I had the right location. Checked, checked again, checked the angles, etc. Went for it. Drilled the holes, and you guessed it. Missed again. By almost the same amount. Crazy. Found the right location, made another pair of filler plates (getting good at this…) and now that one is also done. The amount of time I messed around with this is one of the many reasons I’ll never make it into the 200+ hour club for these builds like the pro builders. I actually kind of like how the filler plates make the bulkhead mounting a little more solid in the footbox walls. But wasn’t in my original plan to do that obviously. I’ll make up the hoses when everything goes back together after powder coat and insulation. But looks like this for now.



I made a new transmission cover. Had enough scrap aluminum and just fits into my little Harbor Freight brake. I decided it was easier to make a new one than to patch the shifter hole that was not centered on the T-56 shifter location. I’ve had to address this somehow on every build. I personally think it would be better if Factory Five would leave these blank and let you cut the hole yourself in the right location. I also used the opportunity to adjust the width/bends just slightly for my planned upholstery wrap of the cover. Still planning to make it removeable, plus likely the one in front under the dash as well.


Moved to the sheet metal in the hatch/trunk area. Everything there is now fitted and drilled.


Starting to look pretty serious. Note in this picture, the rear hatch wall, the two hatch sides, and the two cockpit sides (behind the seats) aren’t permanently installed until after the body is installed.


Two other things:

I’ve been asked why there aren’t lock nuts in the pictures of the door frames I posted before. This points out a practice that I’ve made part of my builds that I’ll share. Where parts are going to be mocked up and repeatedly installed and removed (which happens a lot), I don’t use the supplied lock nuts until final assembly. In this case, Factory Five provides some very nice nylon insert locking flange nuts. But they’ll stay in the bag until the doors go on for the last time. Lots of discussion here and elsewhere about whether these kinds of nuts should be reused, how many times, etc. I’m just cutting through that and not using them any more than necessary. I have a bin of the common size nuts used on these builds (5/16 and 3/8 mostly) and those are what I use during the build itself. They’re easy to take on and off during initial assembly and mock-up, which is another advantage. Some of these are veterans of multiple builds.


Finally, I have a question for other builders regarding the front cowl mounts. I checked the fit of the mounts in the cowl and I’m not sure about what I’m seeing. The mounts attach to the cowl with two bolts through the back of the running light buckets and another one on the lower part of the cowl. The mount is angled (roughly about 3 degrees is what I measured) but this doesn’t match the angle between the back of the bucket and the cowl. The result is a gap that would seem undesirable. I’m thinking for sure mount the bracket flush on the back of the light bucket. Then use a spacer or some washers on the bottom mount? I’d rather have the entire face of the mount flush against the fiberglass though. Maybe make up a wedge or build it up with glass? Thoughts? This picture hopefully illustrates what I'm talking about. The gap isn't real clear in the picture, but it's where annotated.


Planning to start working on the interior and fabricating my dash layout. Haven’t checked in with Ford regarding the Gen 3 Coyote for a while. Probably need to do that too.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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and
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 04-11-2018 at 09:43 PM.
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