EdwardbĚs Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build - Page 2 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #31 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-12-2018, 05:20 PM
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On my Gen II, I put the removable steering wheel on upside down and you can see the gauges just fine. Great job as always,

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Coupe 0652-408W/510 hp-TKO600 .64OD-3.73 TractionLok-3 Link-26x10 front 26x12 15" Mickey Thompson-Heat and A/C- Complete Kit-First Start 7/10/15 First Go Kart 8/15/15 Painted 11/12/16 Titled and Registered 3/24/17 Legally on the road 4/20/17
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post #32 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-13-2018, 11:12 PM
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Amazing build so far as all your builds!!

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post #33 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Electrical and Seats

I’m still waiting for parts so I can finish the front and rear suspension and running out of smaller tasks. Parts are promised to ship this week. So, decided to dive into my electrical plan and wiring. Did a written plan of all my brainstorm ideas so far. Than started to work on some of the parts. I’m not going to finalize or attach anything until the suspension and engine/trans are in place. Just too many differences compared to the Roadster builds for me to know exactly where things should go. That includes wiring, fuel lines, and brake lines. First, the manual has limited detail. Second, and this is really different, it’s pretty much required to run the fuel and brake lines through the transmission tunnel. General forum advice on Roadsters, and I’ve said it myself several times, is to not put fuel and brake lines in that area due to moving parts, e.g. the spinning driveshaft. But with the new Coupe chassis design, it’s basically the only choice. Otherwise you’d have to go under the chassis at one or more points, making the fuel and/or brake lines the lowest points on the chassis which is completely unacceptable. But just theory until I can mock things up with the engine and trans in place.

For the electrical, as I mentioned in an earlier update, the Coupe build manual has basically nothing about the Ron Francis harness supplied with the complete kit. The Ron Francis manual mainly describes the Roadster. Some similarities, but also quite a few differences. The harness itself is used for the Roadster, Coupe, and Hot Rod. So it’s a bit generic and as I’m finding, needs a little tweaking to fit into the Coupe the way I want it.

First up is the fuse panel. Looking through several build threads, pictures on Factory Five’s website, and looking at the videos of builds including the Snap-On build, can see the fuse panel is typically mounted upside down on the left side in the general area of the driver’s left knee. Same as the Roadster. An aluminum panel is provided to mount the fuse panel, slightly different than the Roadster version I think. But unlike the Roadster that has two sides for mounting to the frame, the Coupe only one side. I decided this would be a little floppy for my liking, so fabbed and added some braces along the bottom sides, attached with solid aluminum rivets peened with a hammer. It will attach to the back of the frame rail in addition to along the bottom edge.


Determined the location and installed five 10-32 nutserts. Most of the frame components on the new Coupe are thicker tubing than the 3/4 and 1 inch thinwall tubing on the Roadster. Initially I was just going to tap 10-32 threads into the tubing. Probably would have been OK with at least 2-3 threads. May still end up doing that elsewhere. But since the fuse panel is a little heavy and don’t want it going anywhere, went ahead and added the nutserts. The added braces work well and make it solid enough. One thing that becomes really obvious with the pedal box and fuse panel in place is that the driver’s side footbox is going to be really jammed. It’s tight in the Roadster. But even tighter here.


After this picture was taken, made my first attempt at installing the fuse panel and the accompanying harness branches. Pretty much confirmed what I suspected. I’m going to need to unwrap a lot of the main harness and adjust some lengths and breakouts of some of the branches. Partly to make it neater plus maximize space since I will also have air ducting behind the dash. But also just to make things reach. I’m already a little concerned about the front harness. But I’m not going to tear into that any further because the other variable here is the Coyote harness. It also has to fit into the same space. I’ll wait until that’s on hand and put all the puzzle pieces together then.

I also spent some time on the rear harness. That I was confident enough about that I unwrapped it, made some changes, and wrapped it back up again. I’m going to install a single backup light under the rear running lights on the left side. So added wires to/from the area of the backup light switch on the T-56 I’m planning. Also with the T-56, it has a reverse lock-out solenoid. Lots of discussions about this on various forums. My plan is to use it exactly as designed with a module (there are several available) that senses speed and locks out reverse when the vehicle is in motion. So added wires to/from the area of the reverse lockout solenoid on the T-56. Finally, I adjusted the breakouts at the back and shortened the fuel pump and fuel level sender branches about 22 inches each because they’re way too long. All to best fit how I’m planning to route the rear harness along the right side of the transmission tunnel and to the right around the planned storage box above the tank. This is a pretty rough picture, but the harness is wrapped back up and laying in the approximate position it will be secured when the time comes.


On a related note, every build needs to have some new tools, right? I picked up a Power Probe III that replaces several individual tools used while doing electrical work. This could become my next favorite tool. Measures voltage, continuity, plus can power circuits. I know a lot of people struggle with wiring. This might help if you have a basic understanding of electricity. This promo video shows what it does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=GdH-e4Q9p5k. I bought the unit plus the cable kit. I like it.


The other kind of big deal with this update is my seats. I mentioned before we wanted something other than racing seats. But also something that sat up a little higher than the Factory Five demos we’ve sat in. Plus something that didn’t block the entrance or exit too much. Desirable for me. Pretty much mandatory for my wife if she’s ever going to ride in this thing. After a lot of review, I ordered a Corbeau Sportline Evolution X 64901FBS seat. As I also mentioned before, we want heated seats and Corbeau has the option of ordering them with the heater already installed. But at that point they become custom and non-returnable. A little dangerous without ever seeing or trying one. So I ordered a stock seat with the intention of returning it and ordering the custom heated version if it fit OK. I didn’t receive any advance shipping information (vendor drop ship through Summit) but today FedEx left a big box on my snowy porch. I was like the Dad on Christmas Story opening his major award getting that thing out of the box and into the cockpit of the Coupe. Good news. It fits.


We like it a lot. Looks good and is comfortable to sit in. Just what we were going for. A couple more details. Corbeau has two versions of this seat. One with an adjustable back and one with a fixed back. This is the fixed back version and as suspected I think it’s best for the Coupe. I believe they will spend most of their life back about as far as they'll go. So an adjustable back wouldn’t be usable then anyway. Plus without the mechanism for the seatback, the corners clear the harness attachment points and fits between nicely. Of all the dimensions I was most concerned with, the cushion width on the front was listed as the same as the available space in the cockpit. With insulation and carpet added, wasn’t sure how it would work. But turns out it fits with clearance on each side. So all OK there. The one interference is the side of the headrest at the top pushes slightly into the roll bar cage. The headrest on this seat is slightly wider than some other seats, and turns out it does contact the bar. But the cushion there is soft, so even if it touches or pushes into it a little, not an issue. Corbeau has three different height sliding bases for this seat. After trying several heights with wood blocks, looks like the lowest one will be just right. All the way back, there’s an inch or two more space than the Roadster with the standard seats all the way back. There won’t be a lot of forward adjustment. Probably 2-3 inches. That works perfectly for us. I tried the seat in both driver and passenger side. Both OK. Also confirmed it sits at the right angle, especially important on the driver side, e.g. square to the steering wheel and dash. All good. I’ll get the custom ones ordered.

Our forecast for a mild winter has been anything but that so far. Multiple below zero days, multiple times following the snow blower up and down our driveway. You know, the standard Michigan drill. The heater in the garage keeps it comfortable when I’m working out there. But still thinking about warmer weather already.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 01-17-2018 at 12:41 AM.
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post #34 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:24 PM
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I really like the look of those seats in the coupe. Do you still have the Kirky high back seats that you can take a picture of the two side by side? Since I'm going to be really space constrained already, I'm not sure these would ever fit in mine, but I love the idea.

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post #35 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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I really like the look of those seats in the coupe. Do you still have the Kirky high back seats that you can take a picture of the two side by side? Since I'm going to be really space constrained already, I'm not sure these would ever fit in mine, but I love the idea.
Sorry, I don't have any Kirkey seats. I received standard Roadster seats with my kit, and have since sold and shipped them.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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post #36 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 10:05 AM
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Iím still waiting for parts so I can finish the front and rear suspension and running out of smaller tasks. Parts are promised to ship this week. So, decided to dive into my electrical plan and wiring. Did a written plan of all my brainstorm ideas so far. Than started to work on some of the parts. Iím not going to finalize or attach anything until the suspension and engine/trans are in place. Just too many differences compared to the Roadster builds for me to know exactly where things should go. That includes wiring, fuel lines, and brake lines. First, the manual has limited detail. Second, and this is really different, itís pretty much required to run the fuel and brake lines through the transmission tunnel. General forum advice on Roadsters, and Iíve said it myself several times, is to not put fuel and brake lines in that area due to moving parts, e.g. the spinning driveshaft. But with the new Coupe chassis design, itís basically the only choice. Otherwise youíd have to go under the chassis at one or more points, making the fuel and/or brake lines the lowest points on the chassis which is completely unacceptable. But just theory until I can mock things up with the engine and trans in place.

For the electrical, as I mentioned in an earlier update, the Coupe build manual has basically nothing about the Ron Francis harness supplied with the complete kit. The Ron Francis manual mainly describes the Roadster. Some similarities, but also quite a few differences. The harness itself is used for the Roadster, Coupe, and Hot Rod. So itís a bit generic and as Iím finding, needs a little tweaking to fit into the Coupe the way I want it.

First up is the fuse panel. Looking through several build threads, pictures on Factory Fiveís website, and looking at the videos of builds including the Snap-On build, can see the fuse panel is typically mounted upside down on the left side in the general area of the driverís left knee. Same as the Roadster. An aluminum panel is provided to mount the fuse panel, slightly different than the Roadster version I think. But unlike the Roadster that has two sides for mounting to the frame, the Coupe only one side. I decided this would be a little floppy for my liking, so fabbed and added some braces along the bottom sides, attached with solid aluminum rivets peened with a hammer. It will attach to the back of the frame rail in addition to along the bottom edge.


Determined the location and installed five 10-32 nutserts. Most of the frame components on the new Coupe are thicker tubing than the 3/4 and 1 inch thinwall tubing on the Roadster. Initially I was just going to tap 10-32 threads into the tubing. Probably would have been OK with at least 2-3 threads. May still end up doing that elsewhere. But since the fuse panel is a little heavy and donít want it going anywhere, went ahead and added the nutserts. The added braces work well and make it solid enough. One thing that becomes really obvious with the pedal box and fuse panel in place is that the driverís side footbox is going to be really jammed. Itís tight in the Roadster. But even tighter here.


After this picture was taken, made my first attempt at installing the fuse panel and the accompanying harness branches. Pretty much confirmed what I suspected. Iím going to need to unwrap a lot of the main harness and adjust some lengths and breakouts of some of the branches. Partly to make it neater plus maximize space since I will also have air ducting behind the dash. But also just to make things reach. Iím already a little concerned about the front harness. But Iím not going to tear into that any further because the other variable here is the Coyote harness. It also has to fit into the same space. Iíll wait until thatís on hand and put all the puzzle pieces together then.

I also spent some time on the rear harness. That I was confident enough about that I unwrapped it, made some changes, and wrapped it back up again. Iím going to install a single backup light under the rear running lights on the left side. So added wires to/from the area of the backup light switch on the T-56 Iím planning. Also with the T-56, it has a reverse lock-out solenoid. Lots of discussions about this on various forums. My plan is to use it exactly as designed with a module (there are several available) that senses speed and locks out reverse when the vehicle is in motion. So added wires to/from the area of the reverse lockout solenoid on the T-56. Finally, I adjusted the breakouts at the back and shortened the fuel pump and fuel level sender branches about 22 inches each because theyíre way too long. All to best fit how Iím planning to route the rear harness along the right side of the transmission tunnel and to the right around the planned storage box above the tank. This is a pretty rough picture, but the harness is wrapped back up and laying in the approximate position it will be secured when the time comes.


On a related note, every build needs to have some new tools, right? I picked up a Power Probe III that replaces several individual tools used while doing electrical work. This could become my next favorite tool. Measures voltage, continuity, plus can power circuits. I know a lot of people struggle with wiring. This might help if you have a basic understanding of electricity. This promo video shows what it does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=GdH-e4Q9p5k. I bought the unit plus the cable kit. I like it.


The other kind of big deal with this update is my seats. I mentioned before we wanted something other than racing seats. But also something that sat up a little higher than the Factory Five demos weíve sat in. Plus something that didnít block the entrance or exit too much. Desirable for me. Pretty much mandatory for my wife if sheís ever going to ride in this thing. After a lot of review, I ordered a Corbeau Sportline Evolution X 64901FBS seat. As I also mentioned before, we want heated seats and Corbeau has the option of ordering them with the heater already installed. But at that point they become custom and non-returnable. A little dangerous without ever seeing or trying one. So I ordered a stock seat with the intention of returning it and ordering the custom heated version if it fit OK. I didnít receive any advance shipping information (vendor drop ship through Summit) but today FedEx left a big box on my snowy porch. I was like the Dad on Christmas Story opening his major award getting that thing out of the box and into the cockpit of the Coupe. Good news. It fits.


We like it a lot. Looks good and is comfortable to sit in. Just what we were going for. A couple more details. Corbeau has two versions of this seat. One with an adjustable back and one with a fixed back. This is the fixed back version and as suspected I think itís best for the Coupe. I believe they will spend most of their life back about as far as they'll go. So an adjustable back wouldnít be usable then anyway. Plus without the mechanism for the seatback, the corners clear the harness attachment points and fits between nicely. Of all the dimensions I was most concerned with, the cushion width on the front was listed as the same as the available space in the cockpit. With insulation and carpet added, wasnít sure how it would work. But turns out it fits with clearance on each side. So all OK there. The one interference is the side of the headrest at the top pushes slightly into the roll bar cage. The headrest on this seat is slightly wider than some other seats, and turns out it does contact the bar. But the cushion there is soft, so even if it touches or pushes into it a little, not an issue. Corbeau has three different height sliding bases for this seat. After trying several heights with wood blocks, looks like the lowest one will be just right. All the way back, thereís an inch or two more space than the Roadster with the standard seats all the way back. There wonít be a lot of forward adjustment. Probably 2-3 inches. That works perfectly for us. I tried the seat in both driver and passenger side. Both OK. Also confirmed it sits at the right angle, especially important on the driver side, e.g. square to the steering wheel and dash. All good. Iíll get the custom ones ordered.

Our forecast for a mild winter has been anything but that so far. Multiple below zero days, multiple times following the snow blower up and down our driveway. You know, the standard Michigan drill. The heater in the garage keeps it comfortable when Iím working out there. But still thinking about warmer weather already.

Paul - everything looks great! Seats look very cool and comfortable!

Jeff
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post #37 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 12:54 PM
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Like my Anniversary Roadster build, this will be a Coyote build. Just canít say enough good things about that engine in these cars. The Roadster is just awesome with the Gen 2 Coyote it has. With the 2018 Mustang, now in production, Ford introduced the Gen 3 Coyote. More power (of course!) and some interesting new features. Somehow Gen 3 Coupe and Gen 3 Coyote has a nice ring to it and I enjoy trying new stuff. Ford is saying they will have a crate version of the Gen 3 Coyote ďsometimeĒ in 2018. I will stay on top of it and hopefully that will work out.
Paul I started a conversation with Mike Forte regarding what I need for my build and he just checked with Ford Performance about the 2018 Coyote and they told him they haven't even started the design of the new electronics/control pack yet because they "have so many 2nd gen Coyote's left to sell". When asked for an ETA they said "no time soon". Mike's thoughts are it may be Nov/Dec, maybe.

We both will probably be helping to clear out those Gen 2's for the next crowd of builders. But at least the Gen2 is a known entity.
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post #38 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 01:01 PM
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I put the fuses in the same spot you did and ran the wire harness up and to the right of the steering column, tight but it fits. There is not much room for the front harness to fit around the master cylinders and I have not yet cut the hole for it in the front foot box aluminum. I am using Forte's mechanical throttle linkage and I want to get it in and finalized before fitting the wire harnesses. There is room for the fuel lines high on the right side of the transmission tunnel, run the back brake line and wire harness high on the left side.
The Coupe build is different than the roadster and I think the Gen 3 has some new challenges or as I refer to it as "fun" I know we are all a little crazy. I have had a few people half joking tell me "you know you can just buy a car already built"
Cold here some days as well, a few mornings -34C or about -27F glad I put a heater in like yours.
David W

FFR-4874 Mk ll, 3 bar coilovers, 5.0 with Edelbrock heads, RPM ll intake, 70mm TB, 24lb injectors, bullit replicas. Registered Aug 04, Lexus Indigo ink, silver stripes. Dec 06 POM
Gen 3 coupe #16, Dart 363 TKO600 Wilwood's IRS - registered Sept 18 and off to paint.
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post #39 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Paul I started a conversation with Mike Forte regarding what I need for my build and he just checked with Ford Performance about the 2018 Coyote and they told him they haven't even started the design of the new electronics/control pack yet because they "have so many 2nd gen Coyote's left to sell". When asked for an ETA they said "no time soon". Mike's thoughts are it may be Nov/Dec, maybe.

We both will probably be helping to clear out those Gen 2's for the next crowd of builders. But at least the Gen2 is a known entity.
They have a Gen 3 Coyote crate in an older model Mustang mule. Showed it at PRI in Indy some weeks ago. So seems like they are making a little progress. Of course I have no idea what the electronics/control pack setup is in there. Regardless, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the timing for the Gen 3 isn't going to match my build plan. I agree it's probably months away at least. Plus there's the uncertainty about whether it will even fit in the Gen 3 Coupe. I'll probably be making a decision over the next few weeks, and agree I'll likely be helping with their inventory situation on the Gen 2's. I don't consider that a bad thing at all. Love the Gen 2 in my Roadster. The same thing in the Coupe with the added benefit of the 6-speed T-56 should be excellent.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 01-17-2018 at 02:07 PM.
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post #40 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Paul
I put the fuses in the same spot you did and ran the wire harness up and to the right of the steering column, tight but it fits. There is not much room for the front harness to fit around the master cylinders and I have not yet cut the hole for it in the front foot box aluminum. I am using Forte's mechanical throttle linkage and I want to get it in and finalized before fitting the wire harnesses. There is room for the fuel lines high on the right side of the transmission tunnel, run the back brake line and wire harness high on the left side.
The Coupe build is different than the roadster and I think the Gen 3 has some new challenges or as I refer to it as "fun" I know we are all a little crazy. I have had a few people half joking tell me "you know you can just buy a car already built"
Cold here some days as well, a few mornings -34C or about -27F glad I put a heater in like yours.
David W
Thanks for the hints. Much appreciated. I'm not going to do too much more with the harness until I know what's required for the heat/AC ducts plus the Coyote harness. For the DS footbox, also have to keep the brake and reservoir lines in mind. One thing I'm pretty seriously considering for the front harness is to remove the connectors and hard wire it to the main harness. That would save some space and make it easier to snake through there. We'll see.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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post #41 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 02:30 PM
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I am also planning to get the AC ducts in before going too far with the wiring. I am working on getting the side pipe alignment sorted out first, FFR sent me a set of 351 headers that will get here today, we will see if they fit better. Then I will take the body off and open up the passenger foot box to work on the AC system. There should be lots of space behind the dash with the AC unit in the foot box. Your engine fills the engine bay way more than mine and you have much more wiring to fit, some different issues to figure out.
David W

FFR-4874 Mk ll, 3 bar coilovers, 5.0 with Edelbrock heads, RPM ll intake, 70mm TB, 24lb injectors, bullit replicas. Registered Aug 04, Lexus Indigo ink, silver stripes. Dec 06 POM
Gen 3 coupe #16, Dart 363 TKO600 Wilwood's IRS - registered Sept 18 and off to paint.
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post #42 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 05:36 PM
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They have a Gen 3 Coyote crate in an older model Mustang mule. Showed it at PRI in Indy some weeks ago. So seems like they are making a little progress. Of course I have no idea what the electronics/control pack setup is in there. Regardless, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the timing for the Gen 3 isn't going to match my build plan. I agree it's probably months away at least. Plus there's the uncertainty about whether it will even fit in the Gen 3 Coupe. I'll probably be making a decision over the next few weeks, and agree I'll likely be helping with their inventory situation on the Gen 2's. I don't consider that a bad thing at all. Love the Gen 2 in my Roadster. The same thing in the Coupe with the added benefit of the 6-speed T-56 should be excellent.
Aluminator out of the question? I personally would really like to do that myself...
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post #43 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-17-2018, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Aluminator out of the question? I personally would really like to do that myself...
I assume you mean the regular Coyote Aluminator? Looked at it. Thought about it. For my purposes, just not seeing the $3.5K added cost. Out of the box, it doesn't have any additional power. Of course it has more upside with power adders. For more cost plus custom tuning. But for my street driving I'm very satisfied with the stock Gen 2 Coyote in my Roadster. With the revised intake, straight tube headers, and custom tune it's already better than stock. For my street driving, I'm basically never using all of it. Plus if I really want to, guys put power adders on the stock Coyote and within reason it holds up pretty well. I think I'm going to stay with the stock production version. It's all I need, and then some.

I'm also assuming you're not talking about the $16K+ 5.2 XS version. Cool engine and looks amazing. But that's just not happening.
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Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 01-17-2018 at 09:39 PM.
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post #44 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 03:14 PM
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I assume you mean the regular Coyote Aluminator? Looked at it. Thought about it. For my purposes, just not seeing the $3.5K added cost. Out of the box, it doesn't have any additional power. Of course it has more upside with power adders. For more cost plus custom tuning. But for my street driving I'm very satisfied with the stock Gen 2 Coyote in my Roadster. With the revised intake, straight tube headers, and custom tune it's already better than stock. For my street driving, I'm basically never using all of it. Plus if I really want to, guys put power adders on the stock Coyote and within reason it holds up pretty well. I think I'm going to stay with the stock production version. It's all I need, and then some.

I'm also assuming you're not talking about the $16K+ 5.2 XS version. Cool engine and looks amazing. But that's just not happening.
Well, after all the Gas Monkey hype with the Pantera and FFR Coupe - both getting the XS, I was kicking the idea around a bit. But yeah - the Gen 2 does plenty in our light cars...thanks for the splash of reality :-)
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post #45 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-19-2018, 04:30 PM
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Well, after all the Gas Monkey hype with the Pantera and FFR Coupe - both getting the XS, I was kicking the idea around a bit. But yeah - the Gen 2 does plenty in our light cars...thanks for the splash of reality :-)
I think having Discovery Channel paying the bills turns these decisions into "no brainers"
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post #46 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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IRS Completion Plus

Pretty good week for the Coupe build. On Monday Factory Five shipped two big boxes of backordered parts. Wednesday the FedEx parts delivery truck arrived. I’m down to two missing parts for the entire kit. Headlight covers and side pipes. One apparently a vendor issue, the other waiting to get through the shop at FF. Neither will hold up my build for many months so no more excuses. For the record, that’s just short of seven weeks from kit delivery to basically all the parts needed. That includes holidays, blizzards, etc. In hindsight, not too bad I guess and probably pretty typical. Doesn’t make it any easier though and I don’t claim to be the world’s most patient person. But it’s done and behind me now and will soon be a distant memory.

The main parts I was waiting for were the three sets of IRS arms and a couple bolts. With those in hand, I completed the IRS assembly pretty much the day the parts arrived. Not too much to say about all this. For the Gen 3 Coupe, they all appear to be the same parts as used on the Roadster, so it was a bit of a re-run putting it all together. This has all been pretty thoroughly documented before, so I’ll spare the blow-by-blow description. Four tips from my side though: (1) Grease the fittings before assembly. Pump the grease until it comes out the little holes in the ends and then smear it around on the poly bushings. This not only makes sure the joints are properly greased, but makes it a bit easier to assemble. (2) Figure on spreading all the tabs. I used the threaded rod/washers/nuts technique described by others and mentioned before. Works great and doesn’t mar the powder coat. Doesn’t take much, so don’t overdue it. But spreading them out slightly fixes where there is zero or less clearance (pretty common) and also just makes it a bit easier to assemble. (3) I did find the UCA was probably 1/8-inch or so too narrow. There was no way that was going to go in with spreading the tabs, grease, a big hammer, whatever. I used my floor jack to spread the UCA's and that worked great. They hook between the front axle and lift pad of the floor jack and after a couple tries they slid right in. The bolts went in fine as well so bending them out just a bit didn’t misalign anything. Likely just had moved a little when welded. (4) Finally, the tapered bolts I talked about in the Anniversary Roadster build thread continue to be a huge help to get everything in and aligned. For anyone putting this suspension together for the first time, just prepare yourself. Everything is really TIGHT and it can be a bit frustrating. But it works and is a beautiful thing when it's all together.

Once the IRS assembly was completed, fitted up the Wilwood rear brakes. Those are kind of fun to work on. The instructions are excellent and the parts fit perfectly. Went through the steps to shim as described. Ended up with no shims on the mounting bracket, and only one shim under each caliper mounting bolt. Alignment and centering appears to be perfect. Nice job Wilwood. Still need to run the e-brake cables.

With that done, completed both sway bars. I didn’t have the mounting bushings until this last part shipment, so couldn’t do the front before. Now was able to complete both. I backed off the coilover springs and used a 2x4 and a floor jack to push the suspensions through their travel. I confirmed the rod ends for both front and back are basically perpendicular when the suspensions are at ride height. They angle in/out when the suspensions are full up or down, but confirmed they did so without binding.

Not much else to say except post pictures. I’m really happy with the POR15 black painted knuckles. Blends right in with everything else and looks nice. Absolutely nothing gained or meaningful, but I don’t care. I like it. I followed my usual practice of putting a red paint dot on each bolt as the final torque value was set.





This is a pretty cool view of the underside of the chassis. Shows once again how different the Gen 3 Coupe is from before and also from the Roadster. Also shows how nice it is to have a lift.


This is the completed sway bar on the front suspension. Not much to see here. The mounting is different than the Roadster on the front of the 4-inch tubes. Other than that, very similar.


So really big news on another front. As described in my first post, the intended engine for this build is a Gen 3 Coyote. Even though I have several contacts at Ford, still no definitive word on when the crate version will be released. Their policy is that release dates are provided right before the actual release. There was some chatter on the forum that they haven’t even started the PCM programming and the crate version might not even be released this year. Based on feedback I’m getting, that doesn’t appear to be the case. Best guess remains first or second quarter this year. Maybe as late as summer. Since I’m just a few weeks away from really wanting the engine and trans for mockup, I’ve been talking to myself about going with the Gen 2 Coyote. That’s an awesome engine and love it in the Anniversary Roadster. But a part of me didn’t want to give up on the Gen 3 idea. Then I had a brainstorm that if could get a Coyote block, even a scrap one, I could mount the bell housing and transmission, put the assembly in the chassis, and proceed with the build. Would buy me some months at least. Long story short, I was able to obtain a loaner Gen 2 block! It has a hole in the side right next to where it looks like #7 had a bit of an incident. I have to give it back, but no time limit. This absolutely meets my needs. In the next weeks, I’m going to get the T-56, bell, etc. and drop this into the chassis.


I’ve been working on lighting – all LED – and will report about that probably in my next update.
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post #47 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-27-2018, 07:34 PM
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Great update as always!

I didn't think about using a jack to spread the upper control arms, so I'll give that a try.
You're really making me wish I had a lift like yours too - the pictures you're getting are acting as my references so I don't have to keep crawling on the floor under mine!

Also, nice job finding a spare block. I've already found my spare to be useful so I'm glad to see you can progress on everything else while you eat up the time waiting for the Gen 3 engine.

Do you have a time limit on the Gen 2 vs Gen 3? Seems like you could even do bodywork, interior work, A/C setup, etc. but I'm sure the bug will get to you at some point.

Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder
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post #48 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-28-2018, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Do you have a time limit on the Gen 2 vs Gen 3? Seems like you could even do bodywork, interior work, A/C setup, etc. but I'm sure the bug will get to you at some point.
Yea, having the block and being able to mock up the drivetrain opens up lots of work possibilities. Fuel lines, brake lines, wiring harness, aluminum panels including powder coat and Lizard Skin, interior, rear storage box, just to name a few. Body work is certainly another possibility. I only like to do that when it's warm so I can take it outside. This will easily get me to summer. I'm planning just to keep my ear to the ground on the Gen 3. Hopefully by summer it should either be released or at least have a better idea when it will be.

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post #49 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-29-2018, 01:16 AM
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Once the IRS assembly was completed, fitted up the Wilwood rear brakes. Those are kind of fun to work on. The instructions are excellent and the parts fit perfectly. Went through the steps to shim as described. Ended up with no shims on the mounting bracket, and only one shim under each caliper mounting bolt. Alignment and centering appears to be perfect. Nice job Wilwood. Still need to run the e-brake cables.
FWIW, on my '33 with the IRS and Wilwood brakes I found that the e-brake cables had to run under the diff, not over as shown in the manual. The cables just weren't long enough to route over the top. (Also, I agree that all of your assembly tips and kudos to Wilwood apply to the '33 versions as well!) Keith
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post #50 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-29-2018, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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FWIW, on my '33 with the IRS and Wilwood brakes I found that the e-brake cables had to run under the diff, not over as shown in the manual. The cables just weren't long enough to route over the top. Keith
I don't have them installed yet. But I've starting mocking up the provided e-brake cables. They are plenty long enough to reach over the top of the diff. Same as on my Roadster. I received Dorman C95240 cables. Dorman lists them for Ford Mustang 1998-94. Cable length: 70.98 inches, conduit length: 65.63 inches.

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post #51 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-29-2018, 03:00 AM
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I had to cut about 12 inches off my cables and crimp new ends on them. On the coupe with the irs and Wilwood brakes you only need 4 or 5 inches of cable length more than the sheath.
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FFR-4874 Mk ll, 3 bar coilovers, 5.0 with Edelbrock heads, RPM ll intake, 70mm TB, 24lb injectors, bullit replicas. Registered Aug 04, Lexus Indigo ink, silver stripes. Dec 06 POM
Gen 3 coupe #16, Dart 363 TKO600 Wilwood's IRS - registered Sept 18 and off to paint.
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post #52 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-29-2018, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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I had to cut about 12 inches off my cables and crimp new ends on them. On the coupe with the irs and Wilwood brakes you only need 4 or 5 inches of cable length more than the sheath.
David W
Agreed. The cables FF provided are 71 inches long, conduit 65-1/2 inches long. Difference of 5-1/2 inches. Dorman C95240 as mentioned previously. I already know they're going to work without modification. They must have supplied different cables for yours.

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post #53 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-29-2018, 03:40 PM
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So really big news on another front. As described in my first post, the intended engine for this build is a Gen 3 Coyote. Even though I have several contacts at Ford, still no definitive word on when the crate version will be released. Their policy is that release dates are provided right before the actual release. There was some chatter on the forum that they havenít even started the PCM programming and the crate version might not even be released this year. Based on feedback Iím getting, that doesnít appear to be the case. Best guess remains first or second quarter this year. Maybe as late as summer. Since Iím just a few weeks away from really wanting the engine and trans for mockup, Iíve been talking to myself about going with the Gen 2 Coyote. Thatís an awesome engine and love it in the Anniversary Roadster. But a part of me didnít want to give up on the Gen 3 idea. Then I had a brainstorm that if could get a Coyote block, even a scrap one, I could mount the bell housing and transmission, put the assembly in the chassis, and proceed with the build. Would buy me some months at least. Long story short, I was able to obtain a loaner Gen 2 block! It has a hole in the side right next to where it looks like #7 had a bit of an incident. I have to give it back, but no time limit. This absolutely meets my needs. In the next weeks, Iím going to get the T-56, bell, etc. and drop this into the chassis.
.
Keep the faith on that Gen 3, there are a lot of us counting on you :-)
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post #54 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 12:41 AM
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Yes, it looks like FFR supplied different cables with the Hot Rod. Sorry for adding noise to the channel.
Keith
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post #55 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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LED Lighting Plus

My plan for this build is for all LED lighting, exterior and interior. Itís bright, draws low current, and lasts a long time. If you believe the claimed hours, probably the lifetime of the car. Thatís what I did with #8674, and after living with it for a year, like it a lot. Fortunately, Factory Five did provide some LED fixtures with the Gen 3 Coupe kit. So thatís a good start. The Speedhut gauges, as most probably know, are a combination of electroluminescence panel and LED needles. So nothing to do there either. For the rest, Iíve been studying and shopping for the last few weeks, and think I have everything nailed down.

The first thing you learn when you start looking is that the market is inundated with LED lights. Of every size, kind, and variety. Most from China which is no surprise. The second thing you learn is a very high percentage of it is low quality, even junk. The third thing is that a lot of whatís advertised as automotive related is not DOT/SAE compliant. Whenever you see the words ďfor off-road use onlyĒ itís pretty certain itís not DOT/SAE compliant. For some builders, this doesnít matter and their inspection/titling/registration process doesnít check for it. For others, it is a big deal and could keep the build from being titled. In my case, even though not checked in Michigan, I still chose to use only DOT/SAE compliant fixtures. Just prevents any issues down the road, and in very general terms, I found lights with these ratings were generally higher quality.

Another criterion for me is that I wanted the lighting to look traditional or classic as much as possible. There are a lot of fixtures out there, especially headlights, that are very modern looking with halo rings, integral turn signals, etc. Nothing wrong with that if thatís what youíre going for. Iíve seen some of those products on cars at London and elsewhere. Itís pretty cool especially when done along with other modern style touches. But not my thing for this build.

After a couple purchases and returns, I found LED products from Maxxima to generally be decent quality. As youíll see when I talk details, some of the lights from Factory Five and also Watsonís Streetworks are from there. For LED headlights, here the market seems especially flooded. You can find bulbs from $20 a pair to ten times that and more. As I found out, it matters. On #8674, I have the LED headlight package from Watsonís Streetworks. They are Hella H4 Vision Plus lenses with LED replacement bulbs. Theyíre excellent. Iíve got a lot of driving on them in #8674. Theyíre bright, crisp, and make driving at night easy compared to the stock flashlight halogens. But at $249 a pair, I thought I could be clever and do the same thing for less. Bought the same Hella lenses, and some highly rated LASFIT H4 LED bulbs from Amazon for $60. You know the old clichť about you get what you pay for? After just a few minutes, realized these were not good and exercised Amazonís quick and simple return process. They werenít very bright and the light pattern was all over the place. After a lot more looking, reading, watching YouTube videos, etc., bit the bullet (budget? What budget?) and went for a pair of GTR Lighting Ultra Series 3rd Generation LED H4 bulbs. Arrived today and Iím very happy with them. Quality seems outstanding. Here they are installed in my kit provided headlight parts and Hella lenses.


Unlike some other products on the market, they use an external driver that wonít fit inside the bucket. But thereís an in-line connector so they install in the plastic kit buckets through the regular grommet with the driver mounted on the outside.

For the rest of the front lighting package, FF provided four Maxxima M09300Y marker lights and M50112 SS covers for the running and turn signal lights that go in the covered headlight area. For the fog/driving lights used on the Coupe, FF provided a pair of halogen lights. Theyíre a little small for the opening and power hogs. My 12+ amp power supply wonít light a single fixture. Plus no DOT/SAE markings. After a lot of looking, I went with KC HiLiTES 493 4" Gravity LED fog lights. Theyíre slightly larger and seem to be excellent quality. Again, not cheap (recurring theme??) but I think will be perfect. Iíll need to fab something to mount the flat base to the round interior of the opening. But that will be easy. They have a tilt adjustment screw, so will be easy to aim. Because of the low current draw, donít take heavy wiring or relays. They came with a very nice harness including Deutsch weatherproof connectors. This is the entire front lighting package:


For the rear lights, FF provided the LED running/turn signal/brake light fixtures. These are a super nice setup made up of United Pacific Industries í37 Ford taillights (thatís right!), trim rings, gaskets, and a mounting bracket held in with an internal snap ring. They are quite bright. Very happy with these.


For the rest of the rear lights, I think Iím going to do a 3rd brake light buried in the spoiler. I have a Maxxima M63319R 9 LED light bar that Iím tentatively planning for that. I have a smaller version that I might use but expect will go with this one. Iím planning to install a back-up light. Iíve chosen a Maxxima M42206 14 LED surface mount fixture. Finally, thereís the license plate light that FF provided with an incandescent bulb. I cut out the bulb socket and replaced it with an MAL-S-WW2 LED license plate bolt from superbrightleds.com and two SS fender washers. One on the front and one on the back. Easy mod and works great. This is the same LED license plate bolt used on #8674 and other builds to mod the Roadster license plate light bracket.



This the entire rear lighting package:


Last but not least, for the interior Iím going to install footwell lights on the underside of the dash, like Iíve done before, tied to the courtesy light circuit. Twisting the headlight knob will turn them on and off. For those, Iíll be installing Watsonís Streetworks L96WCL white LED lights from Maxxima. Also, not lighting related, but the interior will have a 12V accessory outlet and a dual USB outlet. These fixtures are from Blue Seas Systems. Always decent quality.

Thatís it for all that. Will be a while before most is installed. But for now I think itís all sorted out. As for the actual build, yesterday I completed the e-brake cable installation. Couple of slight glitches with the provided Dorman cables. I had to trim a bit off the end of the crimped piece at the calipers. Interfered with the provided Wilwood connector parts. No big deal and plenty left to hold. At the e-brake handle, the cables were actually a bit short. Wouldnít reach the male/female rod ends coming off the handle assembly. Using a hacksaw and leftover rod ends from #8674 because I had used a Lokar piece on that build, I cobbled together a 3/4-inch extension, and all is good. The e-brakes work perfectly.


Finally, spent some time yesterday aligning the IRS. It looked really wonky plus I wanted to do a sanity check on wheel spacing while the body was still on the chassis. Got the rear alignment really close I think, but will check it again when I have a rolling chassis. Most Gen 3 Coupe builders have reported the tires tuck in too far on the body, and at least a 1-inch spacer is needed. With #8674 sitting there with the same wheel/tire package Iím planning for this build, I hijacked the rear wheel/tires for a couple hours to complete the alignment and check how they fit to the body. I too found that spacers are needed. Minimum 1-inch. Maybe even a bit more. Most everything I found was either 1-inch or 1-1/2 inches. I went with the 1-inch. Ordered Eibach 90.4.25.010.3 Pro-Spacer hub centric 1-inch spacers. These are 09-2014 Mustang parts. Hub spacing is the same as the 2015+ and has the same 1/2-20 lug nuts as the rest of the build. A little pricey, but these are critical parts and Iíve been very happy with the quality of Eibach parts in the past.

Today I started work on mounting the radiator and the first sheet metal pieces on the radiator tunnel. I have some fitment issues Iím working through, including the small opening and angle for the lower radiator hose. Iíll figure it out. Also looking at other builds. Next week Iím planning to order my T-56 and bell and prepare to drop in the engine mock-up.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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post #56 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 11:32 PM
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Are you going LED for dash indicator lights? I think the ability to dim them would be a requirement as they would most likely be blinding at night otherwise.
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post #57 of 287 (permalink) Old 01-31-2018, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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Are you going LED for dash indicator lights? I think the ability to dim them would be a requirement as they would most likely be blinding at night otherwise.
Yes. Forgot about that. They also will be LED's. The Speedhut gauges already have turn signal and high beam LED's built in. I've tested them and they're not super bright. Pretty sure they'll be OK as is. I'll be adding two additional LED's -- MIL (Multifunction Indicator Light, aka Check Engine) for the Coyote and an indicator for the cooling fan. I like to see a light when it's switched on and running. I haven't picked the exact lights because I'm still designing the dash. Not worried if the MIL is too bright. In general, LED indicators are pretty easy to tone down by putting a resistor in the +12V feed.

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post #58 of 287 (permalink) Old 02-03-2018, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Radiator Tunnel Plus

Since the last update, got out the #30 drill bits and clecos and started at it. First up was the radiator tunnel. This is where we get to play how many clecos does it take.


I mentioned in my last update that I had a couple of fitment issues with the radiator tunnel. Two things. First, initially I couldn’t get the radiator down far enough for the top mounting bracket to sit down properly on the frame rails. The solution was to trim 1/8-inch off the back edge of the lower radiator channel. (not sure what to call it…) That allowed the radiator to push down just enough to get the top mounting bracket installed. Second is the angled lower radiator outlet. With the radiator centered in the lower mounts, the outlet is obstructed and it would be very difficult to get the lower radiator hose properly attached. Sliding it over toward the driver side helps, but then the lower mount on that side interferes. This is also mentioned in another build thread and it was suggested to bend the ear on the mount enough to push the radiator over. That’s what I did. You can see it if you look closely at the picture above. Some of the powder coat peeled off when bent that much. No surprise. I'll touch it up with gloss POR15. Matches perfectly.

It’s still going to be challenging to get the lower radiator hose installed, but I think it will work. Kind of ironic. I struggled with three Roadster builds. The Afco radiator used on those had a straight lower outlet, which points the lower radiator hose right at the frame tow hook mounts used on Roadsters. The newer angled radiator solves that problem very nicely. But sure would be nice to have a straight lower outlet on this Coupe build instead of the angled one. I think it would work much better. Oh well. These don’t show the issue too well, but this is the area in question. From the front and the back. The lower radiator hose will still be pressed against the square frame member. But I think it will go in. I’m planning to check out the Boig Motorsports upper and lower Gen 3 Coupe Coyote hoses. Hopefully they’ve taken this limited space into account.



This is the radiator tunnel with the mockup basically complete. You can see how it's off-center to the driver's side. I’m using a radiator shroud from Breeze. It’s tight, but it works. Now back apart and out for powder coat.


Couple more updates. Yesterday my Corbeau seats arrived. We went with the red stitching version. Very happy with how they look. These have pre-installed seat heaters, which I tested and work OK. Only pull 3.6 amps each on either high or low. So shouldn’t be any trouble finding a circuit for them.



Today my 1-inch Eibach rear wheel spacers arrived. Super nice quality and perfect fit. I’ve very impressed. Made in Germany actually. No surprise the existing wheel studs are longer than 1-inch, so protruded through the spacers. But I knew the FF wheels had indents between the lug holes on the back side of the wheels, so assumed they would fit. Well, we all know about assume. The indents of the wheels didn’t line up with the protruding studs so of course the wheels wouldn’t mount properly. So back apart and out with the air cut-off tool. Took it slow and easy (no choice since those tools are air hogs) and trimmed the ends off. Wheels mount perfectly. I'm probably going to put some of the Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black I've been using elsewhere on them. They do show a little through the spokes of the wheel. Can't have that. Kind of of stand out against the black Wilwood brakes.


Family activities the next couple days. But back at it next week. Pretty happy with the progress two months in. Ready for spring, but staying warm working in the garage.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 02-03-2018 at 10:26 AM.
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post #59 of 287 (permalink) Old 02-03-2018, 02:01 PM
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Nice progress Paul!
I like those seats, they wouldíve looked really nice in my car but the gen 2 does not have enough room for them.
Top notch so far.
Are you going to go with the classics color scheme then?

John

Building when I can, sigh....


Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #60 of 287 (permalink) Old 02-03-2018, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lake Orion, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Dol View Post
Nice progress Paul!
I like those seats, they wouldíve looked really nice in my car but the gen 2 does not have enough room for them.
Top notch so far.
Are you going to go with the classics color scheme then?

John
Thanks. Still considering several options for the color and color scheme. Red is a leading contender (big surprise, I know), thinking about stripes or no stripes, almost for sure no numbers or sponsor stickers. Thinking clean and modern sports car look vs. race car look. But still lots of time to decide, and change my mind.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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