EdwardbŁs Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build - Page 10 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #271 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 11:28 PM
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I'll take a shot. Any good resin with strands of fiberglass in it will have plenty of strength. I'm old school and prefer the epoxies. The vinyl esters are probably better to match the FFR bodies. 3M HSRF is fine and recommended by many forum members. 3M/Bondo have others that will also work. I would sand everywhere you are filling with 80 grit, cut some thin wood strips, 3/16 to 1/8 thick and glue them to the top and front of the window frame with silicone ( to create a gap). Press them in against the body to make a dam. On the bottom, glue them to the inside of the window frame down to the body to make the dam. Disassemble, wrap the window+strips in saran/cling wrap, assemble, and stuff the HSRF in all the gaps, level with a bondo spreader or ice cream stick. Sand, fill, and finish. You might want to make a gap along the bottom before or after filling for some thin weatherstrip. OK. Shoot away.

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post #272 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 03:35 PM
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Window fit

This is what I was curious about when I previously asked how the windows fit after you fitted the doors so perfectly. I'll be interested in following how you execute this mod your usual exceptional fashion!
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post #273 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Windows and Mirrors

Thanks for the responses on repairing the glass to fill the gaps between the tops of the doors and the windows. It was kind of a pain, to be totally honest. But it’s done and I think turned out well. With more body work, primer, paint, etc. they will disappear and give a much better appearance than the uneven gaps on both sides. Details make a difference.

I ended up using 3M HSRF. I was able to adjust the windows and get the gaps slightly smaller than I pictured before. I decided the gaps were just too irregular to glue on fill pieces. Resin with filler, chopped glass, etc. potentially would be a little stronger. But I had the HSRF and am familiar with using it. Plus, I do expect the windows will stay on most of the time. So the edge will usually be protected. Not that I think the result is fragile. It isn’t at all. This is the process I used. First sanded a 1/8-inch plus bevel with 80 grit paper on the top of the doors through the gel goat. Plus roughed up the remaining edges plus about 1/2-inch back on the gel coat along the top. Then used clear packing tape to wrap all the parts of the windows that would be in contact with the HSRF, and gave them several coats of car wax so they would release. Then with the windows in place, put wood strip fillers along the bottom edges with double back tape to dam the HSRF when pushed into place. The wood strips had the same clear packing tape and wax treatment.

With everything in place, filled the gaps with HSRF. Did it in two applications. First pushed firmly in to make sure everything was filled. Second to get as straight and even with the top of the door contours as possible. HSRF is not easy to sand if you haven’t heard that before. After a couple hours, popped the windows off and they released relatively easily. Removed the door shells and finished them on the workbench in the basement. There were a couple places to fill and touch up, but generally turned out well. Sanded the top and bottom flush with the doors. There’s a very slight ridge along the top edges. HSRF just doesn’t feather out like Rage Gold or whatever, plus is hard as a rock. But it’s straight and even, and one pass with body filler during paint should blend it completely. This morning put everything back together and it’s a huge improvement. I’ll add a thin piece of self-adhesive gasket or whatever at final assembly and should be good. Couple pictures of the finished product. The pictures are a little shadowy. The final gap is about 1/32-inch plus, and most importantly even all the way across.



I also finished mounting the Peter Brock sourced side mirrors I showed earlier. He provides detailed instructions including the recommended locations. They’re for a Superformance Coupe, but the locations seem to be fine here as well. He provides a backing plate and locknuts. But I decided I wanted the backing plate and nuts to be permanently captured so I didn’t have to reach inside the doors to mount and remove the mirrors. Especially since I’m planning door cards that will close the openings in the doors, and also because the mirrors are pretty wide and I may have to remove if/when using my existing trailer. So I made new backing plates out of 16 gauge steel and captured some flanged nuts with a second piece of aluminum and a 6-32 bolt. No pictures, but a simple fabrication and now bonded in place at the two mirror locations inside the doors. Mirrors are very solid, and easy to take on/off from the outside only with a ball end hex driver.



Two more items off the list! Doesn’t get old seeing this sitting in my garage.


Tomorrow we have a club event that should be pretty amazing. I’ll find out how much I can talk about it after it’s over. Kinda sorta a track day unlike anything I’ve done with the Roadster. Stay tuned.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 06-07-2019 at 12:42 AM.
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post #274 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
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The final gap is about 1/32-inch plus, and most importantly even all the way across.
You may have to increase the gap to 3/32-1/8 or so. Primer and paint will take up a lot of the gap. Talk to your painter.
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post #275 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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You may have to increase the gap to 3/32-1/8 or so. Primer and paint will take up a lot of the gap. Talk to your painter.
All good and considered that. The way the window is mounted any added thickness would just move the window into the opening slightly, and is easily accommodated by the adjustable mounts and the bulb seal around the body.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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post #276 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 07:52 PM
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My error, I was referring to the gaps above and in front of the window frame, between the w-frame and body. I thought those were in play, not just the door to window gap. Also, the door/window will move around a little with bumps. BTW, what happened to the door gap?
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post #277 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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My error, I was referring to the gaps above and in front of the window frame, between the w-frame and body. I thought those were in play, not just the door to window gap. Also, the door/window will move around a little with bumps. BTW, what happened to the door gap?
There will be bulb seal all around the door opening that the windows close against. Those gaps are fine and will within the range of the bulb seal. My experience with these cars is the frame and body are both very stiff and in fact doesn't move around at all. But if it did, the bulb seal would handle it. Everything about the window fit is exactly how it's intended to be and will be fine.

Regarding the door gap, I assume you're suggesting the gap is too wide. It does look wider than it actually is because of the picture angle and the gel coat being removed by the slight radius on both sides. But the gap is wider than I planned. I typically shoot for 3/16-inch unfinished, which it is everywhere else. The front of the doors are 1/4-inch. I talked about this previously in the build thread. I set the gaps before fitting the front cowl, which in hindsight was a mistake and I recommended to other builders do the cowl first. When I installed the cowl, and pulled it down for the best alignment along the body, the gaps on the doors opened up slightly. Finishing will close it up some, and will have cushioning material behind.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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post #278 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Gen 3 Coyote Engine Cover

Another one of my to-do items was to address the Gen 3 Coyote engine cover. Dressing up the Coyote is not an easy task, and Ford made the Gen 3 even more difficult with the added plumbing for the Direct Injection (DI) system. With the additions, they gave up on coil covers and extended the intake manifold cover to hover over the heads. For the Mustang, this meant fitting them around the shock towers and other underhood components. So made for a “different” look to say the least.


Mocked up in the Gen 3 Coupe, didn’t look too great either. Plus is too wide for the chassis and too high for the cowl.


Needless to say, something is needed to cover some of this up.


First thing I did was whack off the oddly shaped extensions or wings as they’re affectionally called.


Reasonable start, but decided I wanted some type of extensions that would cover more up but look like they belonged. And fit in the available space. Factory Five put a Gen 3 Coyote in a 33 Hot Rod. Has an aftermarket intake, but they fabricated some extensions that went over the heads a bit, and that was an additional inspiration. Even though mine didn’t turn out anything like theirs.

First thing I did was make some mockups out of cardboard. Played with different shapes, widths, etc. I ended up with them about 4-1/2 inches wide and shaped to sort of follow the lines of the existing intake cover. Wider would have covered up more. But just looked out of proportion to me. Plus started covering things up like the oil filler and dipstick. Then decided needed to do something to dress up the extensions. Considered routing some slots, like Factory Five did, but didn’t care for that look. Plus exposed what I was trying to cover up. Played around with a bead roller borrowed from a build buddy. Haven’t ever used anything like that. Had a little trouble getting straight lines. But in the end didn’t matter. It distorted the aluminum I wanted to use way too much. Plus it was kind of an old school hot rod look that didn’t really fit with the theme of the car or the more modern angular existing cover. What I finalized on was some 1/4-strips glued and riveted to the covers. Sort of matching some similar lines on the existing cover and had a look I was happy with. I don’t pretend to be a designer or particularly artistic, so this was the best I could come up with. Also considering what tools and capabilities I have. I am happy with the result though. Even though as usual it was more work and took longer than I expected.

What I did was trim the existing plastic cover down to where it was straight and had a 1/4-inch wide flat on the underside. Then made filler pieces from 1-inch wide by 1/4-inch thick aluminum. Bonded these to the underside of the cover with JB Weld plastic bonder, available at HD. Probably there is something out there more exotic that is stronger. But I drilled and tapped for some 4-40 flat head screws that add some additional mechanical strength. It’s sitting against a rib on the underside that has a filet of bonder against it. Bottom line, there isn’t a lot of stress and I don’t think it’s going anywhere. Then I made the extensions out of .040 aluminum, held onto the bottom of the 1/4-inch strip with a row of 4-40 screws. Then added the 1/4-inch strips on the top. Used JB Weld to stick down and hold. Then added 1/16-inch flat head rivets.

With the cover in place, found it was unstable in the front. The four balls that plug into grommets in the intake are toward the back of the cover and didn’t provide much support at the front. Ford also obviously saw this, because the Gen 3 cover has two added mounting points on the heads at the front. I made some brackets out of 16-gauge steel that matched up with those and attached to the bottom of the extensions. It’s a little bit of a dexterity test to reach under the extensions and start the nuts. But not something I expect to do too often and gives just the right amount of stability.

Enough talk. Here’s the final product. Just bare metal now. Will paint the body color when the car is painted along with the darker color plastic on the existing cover. The lighter color will stay the way it is. Hard to get a good angle with the cowl in the way, plus it’s a little bright in the shop with the sun shining. But I’ll take that after all the rain we’ve had. First picture from the bottom showing how it's put together. Then the finished side with it installed.




That’s it for a few days. Tomorrow prep for London including installing the new windshield in my Roadster. Assuming FedEx delivers on time. Yep, joined the broken windshield club while sitting in the garage last Monday/Tuesday. Hope to catch up with some of you in London. Looking forward to it as always.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 06-19-2019 at 02:55 AM.
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post #279 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 09:55 PM
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Looks good Paul as usual!

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post #280 of 287 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 09:26 AM
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nice work Paul!

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post #281 of 287 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Wipers, Washers, Etc.

It’s been a while since my last update. Have been getting in some good work sessions. So, some progress to report. Did take a 4+ day break to attend the annual London Cobra Show. This was, I think, our tenth year attending. Although the first couple of years were without a car and just looking and learning. Enjoyed the event like always. The new format with a single venue was a nice improvement. The weather didn’t look promising on Thursday. But weather on each following day was great. Friday took a nice cruise and of course the parade and downtown London event on Saturday. I was asked to have my Roadster in the Factory Five display again and enjoyed talking with lots of people and meeting several forum members in person. It was an honor to have Dave greet us personally when we drove in. (Shameless name dropping, sorry.) There was an “incident” on the charity rides as has been reported elsewhere, so won’t go into that. Fortunately, the police allowed things to continue. Just keeping the speeds down. I did three passes in the afternoon and I think my riders got their money’s worth. I’m not sure who had more fun though. For my street driving (and conservative approach) I don’t get to stretch the Roadster and Coyote out very often. I was amazed again what that thing will do when pushed hard. What a rush. The inside banquet on Saturday night was very nice. My wife said she missed the muddy grass floor and bugs biting her ankles from the previous outdoor under the big top venue. I didn’t. Another great contribution to CF and the winner of the raffle car wasn’t in the room or on the phone. That doesn’t ever seem to change. Sunday’s drive home was another nice day and an easy drive. With the Roadster in the SE of course. Already looking forward to next year and taking the Coupe as I’ve promised lots of folks. If you haven’t attended the London show before, you won’t be disappointed. Especially with the latest changes. Back to the build thread…

Continue to work through my punch list before paint. Mostly finished the wiper installation. The Specialty Power Windows setup I described previously is now all hooked up and working with the final tube bent and installed. It took several tries but settled on the 130-degree setting for the sweep. Gives good coverage combined with the 15-inch blades. It’s nice being able to set the sweep and tailor them exactly to the installation. One hint though. I had run them very briefly while wiring some weeks ago. Just to confirm they ran, parked, etc. Not a good idea without being in packed in grease like the instructions show. Didn’t do any permanent damage, but much more and I could have.

Also mostly finished up the washers. Probably something not too many mess around with, and I can kind of see why. But I’ve sweet talked my way through inspection three times without, even though they’re specifically mentioned on the inspection form. Plus, the wiper switch I’m using has the washer function built in. So decided to go for it. The Denso tank and pump I picked out and mounted works great. I had purchased the small Lucas style spray nozzles from Finishline. However, mounted on the cowl not far from the windshield they didn’t work all that great. Only put out a small stream that either hit right at the base of the windshield, or with the slightest adjustment all the way over the windshield and onto the back hatch glass. Impressive, but not exactly what I was going for. With a lot of looking, settled on these from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. For the low price, I wasn’t expecting much. But they had good reviews and actually work perfectly. My next thought was to go to some type of a wet blade setup. But I'm done messing with this.

Another item on my list is door cards. Still a work in progress, but made some patterns out of cardboard, settled on the basic design, and cut from 1/8-inch hardboard. The tape is where the hole is at in the inner door. I want to use that space somehow for a pocket, but still deciding what to do. I also want to add some kind of door pull but looking at options there too. The door cards will be vinyl wrapped, with some portion being the carbon fiber style covering I have in the seats and showed before on the instrument cluster and center switch panel. That plus red stitching like I’ll be using elsewhere. Little bit to go here obviously.



Finally, have spent quite a bit of time working on my headers and side pipes. I’m still a couple weeks at least away from finally explaining further and showing details. But really making some progress and I’m excited about how this is going to turn out. Also excited because I’ll be able to run the engine again, which I haven’t been able to do since the body is on. Also do a couple drives up/down the street. I missed the go-kart stage because that was during the winter. The first start and initial engine runs were with Roadster side pipes that don’t fit now. Anyway, I know you guys like teasers, so here’s mine for today.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 07-03-2019 at 10:59 PM.
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post #282 of 287 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 01:28 AM Thread Starter
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Door Cards

This is probably my most trivial update to date. But finished the initial fabrication of the door cards and door bins, so will post to close that out. The doors on the Coupe are thick and have a good-sized opening. Since there’s no roll down windows () the area is free space. So decided to put it to use. Fabricated an aluminum bin for each door that’s 3-1/2 inches deep and basically the size of the opening. They’re held in place with 10-32 screws into nut plates bonded on the inside of the door. Nylon spacers hold them out to where they will be flush with the inside of the door cards. Then cut openings in my hardboard door cards that are nearly flush at the top and leave material along the bottom to hold stuff in. The shape of the openings are the same theme as the glovebox, so hopefully look like they belong. The inside of the bins will be lined with vinyl and carpet on the bottom. I also wanted to add door pulls. After looking at several options, realized I had the pulls right in front of me with the openings to the bins. But pulling on the door cards directly is probably not the best idea. So added strips of 1/2 x 3/16 steel that are also attached to the doors with spacers and nut plates and will be tight against the inside of the door cards and just below the bottom edge of the openings. Turned out nice and solid and I think will work great. The door cards will get 1/8-inch foam and then vinyl covered. The upper part will be plain vinyl, the lower part the C-F style vinyl in the seats and elsewhere, with red stitching on the line visible in the pictures. The door cards will be held in place with the door openers at the top (also going into nut plates) and strips of 3M Dual Lock reclosable fastener material. That’s what I have holding the door cards on #8674 and they've been rock solid.

Passenger side bin and door pull. Drivers side looks the same. The white material is white powder coated scraps left over from #8674 that I recycled for this project.


Passenger side done except for covering.


Same for the drivers side.


Another item I’ll mention. Many have told me that the Coupe doesn’t have great vision out the back through the hatch glass. I’ve had a couple recommendations for a full-time back-up camera. Not a bad idea, but didn’t go there. One idea I saw – and Factory Five offers them on their website – is the 14-inch Longacre Racing wide angle rear view mirror. Thought I would give one a try. Ordered from Summit since Factory Five was showing out of stock. Plus the Summit free shipping thing. Received yesterday and took it for a 0 mph test drive. One word IMO. Fail. First, they’re designed to be mounted on the roll bar versus the windshield. They come in 1-1/2 and 1-3/4 bracket sizes. The roll bar behind the windshield measures 1-5/8. Since Factory Five has the 1-3/4-inch version on their website, that’s the one I ordered. And, no surprise I guess, the brackets only go to slightly under 1-3/4 so don’t clamp tightly. Could modify the brackets, but before I did that, confirmed where the mirror would sit and what the view looked like. Not good in either case. Due to the design of the brackets and attachment to the mirror, plus the location of the roll bar, ends up very close to you. Almost in your face. Plus, the angle has to be really wonky to see out the back and I didn’t see where it added that much. Compared to the more OE style windshield mount mirror included with the kit, very little difference. Not because of the mirrors so much as there’s just so much space available to see out the back. So the Longacre mirror goes back and I’ll be going traditional on the center rear view mirror attaching to the windshield. Fortunately, the BRE side mirrors I have on each side give a good view. So I think I’ll be OK.

As far as the tease from my last update, continue to stay tuned. Should have more news on that in the very near future. That opens up a whole bunch of progress on other fronts.

Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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Last edited by edwardb; 07-12-2019 at 11:44 AM.
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post #283 of 287 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 12:41 PM
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Nice Paul,

I still have to build my door cards too. I like what you did with the pull.
I will look into the reusable dual lock. Is that like a Velcro?

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Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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post #284 of 287 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I will look into the reusable dual lock. Is that like a Velcro?

John
Sort of. But instead of hook and loops like Velcro it's interlocking plastic stems that hook together. Comes in different adhesive types, and different stem density giving different fastening strength. I ended up with 3M Dual Lock Reclosable Fastener TB3550 250/250 Black. Available lots of places, but mine came from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B007OXK1AK. Seems like good stuff. Supposedly much stronger then Velco. Goes together with a "snap" and a predicable thickness. Just don't use too much. With the pictured amount on my Mk4 Roadster leather wrapped door cards they haven't budged. Too much and could be hard to get off. Adhesive sticks great to the painted fiberglass. For the hardboard door cards, put a layer of 5-minute epoxy where the fastener pieces was applied, and stuck them down just at it set up. Planning a very similar approach with the Coupe.


Build 1: Mk3 #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017.
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Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017.
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Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017.
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post #285 of 287 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 03:01 PM
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Thanks Paul,

My son is considering fender flares on his daily driver, but doesn't like the bolt on look. wonder if this would hold them on?


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Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
First start Sept. 18 2013
First go kart Sept 19 2013


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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Dol View Post
Thanks Paul,

My son is considering fender flares on his daily driver, but doesn't like the bolt on look. wonder if this would hold them on?

John
Maybe, I don't know. Not sure the best choice for that application.

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edwardb is offline  
post #287 of 287 (permalink) Old Today, 02:35 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Tequesta, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
Maybe, I don't know. Not sure the best choice for that application.
Hey Paul,
First thanks for the dimensions you sent. Got my 3" fixture fabricated. Going to make a 3.5 and 4.0 inch also, so I can play with what fits best.
Thanks for all of your tips and awesome fabrication techniques. Sure cuts down on the trial and errors!
Bob McLaughlin
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