Stix's Coupe Build - Striped Steel - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
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post #1 of 128 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
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Stix's Coupe Build - Striped Steel

Well, it's fast approaching so I wanted to kick off the build thread.

Let me first say to Factory Five: Please, please offer a 50/50 sale! I'll put in my order the first day I know about it!! I'll take delivery at any time and have the money in hand. I can also keep a secret if you let me in on the deal tomorrow

Ok... now that I have that over with. Let me introduce my build:

As you can see, I've poured lots of money and time (kidding) into an early prototype by ordering a die cast model and wrapping it in 3M brushed steel vinyl.

On a serious note, here's what I have in mind for my build:
Type 65 Coupe Base Kit
Coyote engine
AEM Infinity control
Tremec something (TKO 600, T-56, or T-6060)
New IRS
Heat and A/C
Wilwoods at some point

The engine build may start out as a F150 engine just to get started due to funds but I have some lofty goals.
There are other things I have in mind to do to the kit as an overly ambitious engineer, but those things will be revealed in time to keep everyone guessing.

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post #2 of 128 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 01:11 PM
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Welcome! Don't be afraid to ask questions and Good Luck!

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FFR#2296, 428FE, TKO, IRS (Sold)
FFR#0189CP 331/Victor Jr heads and intake, (FAST EZ EFI, Ditched it and went back to a carb)
1946 Mercury Deluxe Coupe
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post #3 of 128 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 03:57 PM
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Well, I will also keep my mouth shut about your sinister plans.

I have opinions about transmissions also so feel free to ping me on that one too !

Michael

Kit Purchased - 10/13/14
Build School - 10/17/14
Ship Date - 11/10/14
Delivered - 12/7/14 Coupe #669
First Start - 4/9/15
Go Kart - 5/2/15
Licensed - 7/17/15
Paint - 1/24/16 - 4/7/16
Hyperbolically crawling towards graduation - 5/27/17

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post #4 of 128 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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@Snakebit31 : Thanks! Don't worry, I'll be asking plenty of questions

@SeattleDad : The last time we talked I think you used the word "crazy" and not "sinister" haha! I hope my unique ideas for a powertrain, drivetrain, body, and more will end up just as sinister as I have in my mind.
I think I may be set with a modified TR-6060 at this point for various reasons.
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post #5 of 128 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 07:35 PM
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Here is one we did with a similar paint concept.
https://www.facebook.com/levyracing/...54507333427888

Please feel free to ask questions


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post #6 of 128 (permalink) Old 09-28-2016, 04:29 AM Thread Starter
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Although FFR is now offering a deal on wheels and tires which means the 50/50 sale probably isn't going to happen right away, I have been working more overtime than I'd like which gave me the funds to get this bundle of parts earlier.

The eBay find let me get the whole rear IRS setup from a 2016 Mustang GT with the Performance Package that was front end crashed at 5k miles. The seller also had it listed for the price of the base Mustang parts so effectively I got everything for half of what the differential by itself would cost new! At 5k miles, everything is practically new. Add in that I can go-cart with the stock rear brakes and sell them later, and I'm pretty happy with the find.

3.73 Torsen is the first confirmed detail of my build
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post #7 of 128 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
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Not to "let the coyote out of the bag", but I found an engine!



It's from a 2015 F-150 so it has the newer cast heads, the intake with charge motion, I think the upgraded oil pump gears, and other minor changes. Nearly everything is shared with the 2015 Mustang GT and what isn't can be easily swapped.

Since I found it for so little cost, I expect a few upgraded parts will be showing up for it over the course of my build... some of which SeattleDad has already got the inside scoop on.

More parts for a kit I don't have yet haha

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post #8 of 128 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 03:05 PM
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I spent about 3 years gathering parts for my coupe build. When F5 was doing their black friday sales I bought a bunch from them, wheels, control arms, carpet, ect. I also bought a brand new rear axle from Forte with brakes for a good price. I also got the engine in advance as well as the transmission. I had a bunch of stuff but no coupe for a while. Now I am doing the body work, and have test run the engine. Basically I am about 70% done in about 2 years. I had some setbacks and a few months where it was too hot or cold to work in the garage or I did't have the time. But now I am back on track. I do have a connection for paint, my wife works for PPG and makes automotive paint!



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2006 F5 Roadster #4039, 5.0, 4X4 Headers & Stainless Sidepipes, Holley Ultra 650 Carb, T5, Disc Brakes Front & Rear, 3.73 8.8 4 Link Rear, Chrome Roll Bar And Bumpers, Tubular Control Arms Front And Rear, 17 inch Halibrand replica rims with BF Goodrich Street Comp 2 tires, wipers, Kirkey vintage seats.

2014 F5 Type 65 Coupe #655, 5.0, 2x4bbl carbs, T5, 4 link 8.8, 3.73 gears, tubular control arms front and rear, disk brakes front and rear, 17 inch Halibrand replica rims with 315 rear and 245 front Mickey Thompson Street Comps, wipers and washers, seat heaters, heat and a/c, Kirkey vintage seats, carpet. Still building.
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post #9 of 128 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds like I'm not alone in the parts acquisition then. FFR's got a great SEMA sale going on now for most kits so I didn't expect them to offer even more for Black Friday. Good on them for doing that.

I'll be scouring the net to see if there are other things I can pick up at a good price this weekend to hold me over until I have the motor physically in my possession and I can do a tear-down and verify the condition of everything.

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post #10 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-12-2016, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Time for another pun: Two heads are better than one!


Since I got the F-150 engine for such a low price, I took advantage of a Black Friday sale and purchased these GT350 heads. I'm still lower than my initial budget of a base 5.0 crate motor, but this should give me a good bump in performance and let me sell the stock heads.

Now to let my bank account take a rest.


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post #11 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 02:53 PM
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Those are incredible heads and supposedly worth almost 100hp.
I understand that they are completely different, but I would imagine they just mean the casting. Do you know if the rest of the hardware from your f150 heads bolts in, cams springs followers etc?

Mike
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post #12 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Those are incredible heads and supposedly worth almost 100hp.
I understand that they are completely different, but I would imagine they just mean the casting. Do you know if the rest of the hardware from your f150 heads bolts in, cams springs followers etc?
I'd love it if they were worth 100hp, but I'm guessing that's based on the 5.0 vs a 5.0 with GT350 heads, GT350 intake, and long tube headers poster shown during a trade show. They have larger valves, slightly different valve axis of orientation, and are fully CNC on the chamber side. If they are worth 100hp, then I guess I'll have a really fun (or scary) build.

From what I've been reading, all of Ford's literature says there is a need to buy new lifters and rocker arms. Going off of Ford's online part database, the rockers and lifters have the same exact part numbers for the production GT and GT350. I know MMR sells modified rocker arms to allow the GT/F-150 cams to work in the GT350 heads because the GT cams have bigger base circles on their profile, but that doesn't explain the need to buy new rockers with the cross-plane cams made specifically for the GT350 heads. The heads come loaded with valves and valve springs.
... In short, I'm going to see what I can reuse and if I can compare the parts side by side and I'll report back what I find.

As for my cams and other internal items... well, that I'm keeping secret until I can start the engine and see if my build actually works with custom combination of parts I'm developing and electronics I'm learning. I'm leaning to start everything on a stand before it goes in the car to let the first start happen a lot earlier in the build

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post #13 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 11:44 PM
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Yes I remember now, 100hp is based, as you said, with other supporting parts.

RE: the electronics IMHO it best to use the ford ECM with a add on tuner because as far as I know no 3rd party ECUs have the Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing Ti-VCT working properly, and most require locking it out.
That is unfortunate because that's the real magic behind making a 302ci 435hp engine perfectly drivable.

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post #14 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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I've got the standalone idea covered with the AEM Infinity 708. The Ford ECM is too limited for what I want to do.

You can check out some of the discussion other forum members have had here: https://www.ffcars.com/forums/45-ford...ll-coyote.html

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post #15 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 05:25 PM
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I've got the standalone idea covered with the AEM Infinity 708. The Ford ECM is too limited for what I want to do.

You can check out some of the discussion other forum members have had here: https://www.ffcars.com/forums/45-ford...ll-coyote.html
Stix,

Glad to see you are going with the Infinity. I believe your expectations will be met or exceeded with the 708.

Trevor


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post #16 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Trevor-
Your solid progress and willingness to help everyone is what made the decision even easier.
Any thoughts on how easy or difficult it would be to get it wired up enough for an engine start outside of the car?

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post #17 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 06:21 PM
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Completely doable but seems like a lot of extra work. I think with the engine mounted in the car, this will serve you better as you begin to layout your wiring and begin making your connections.

You certainly could start the engine outside of the car and wouldn't have to make all of the optional connections to a lot of the sensors, just the basics but still a fair amount of work, especially when you begin to terminate a lot of the blunt leads with pins to feed the sensors that you'll most likely cutoff and shorten up once you install in the chassis.

This motor just isn't quite like an old push-rod motor where you just need to give it a little fuel and spark to fire it up. With a motor like the Coyote, I would want as many of the sensors hooked up and running to keep a very close eye on the engine during first start to be sure all systems are go.

BTW I am assuming you are going with the stand-alone plug & play layover harness from AEM?
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post #18 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Have you seen my garage thread? I don't mind a little extra work if it creates better results in the end and I can learn along the way. Maybe I'm too willing to do extra work once I get an idea in my mind
https://www.ffcars.com/forums/43-off-...p-me-plan.html

I anticipate using AEM's harness since I'll never be able to use the Ford control pack. Is that what you'd recommend?

I'm ok firing things up using my laptop to monitor the engine sensors and make sure my modifications don't shake things apart or have other issues. Things like wheel triggers, A/C control, etc. won't be touched until install in the car. I may also ground and/or power things off a breadboard just to simplify things instead of doing full connectors on the bench.

Feel free to tell me I'm just crazy... I'm ok hearing that too

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post #19 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 08:31 PM
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I'll check out your garage thread.

Yes, I recommend using AEM's stand-alone harness. When I get some time, I will pull out my Ford Racing Controls pack harness and AEM's Ford Racing adapter harness and re-wire it with the stand-alone layover harness. AEM's PDB is much more compact than Ford Racing's PDB. Also, it eliminates the big adapter plug that plugs into the Controls Pack ECU. It will provide for a much cleaner install.

If you've got the time, then no, I don't think it's crazy to fire up the engine outside of the car. In fact, providing you have the time, it could be a great way to start familiarizing yourself with the wiring, data logging and tunings aspects of the Infinity ahead of time to take out some of the mystery. If you have anything wired incorrectly, it will be much easier to troubleshoot until you get everything sorted out.
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post #20 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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I'll check out your garage thread.

Yes, I recommend using AEM's stand-alone harness. When I get some time, I will pull out my Ford Racing Controls pack harness and AEM's Ford Racing adapter harness and re-wire it with the stand-alone layover harness. AEM's PDB is much more compact than Ford Racing's PDB. Also, it eliminates the big adapter plug that plugs into the Controls Pack ECU. It will provide for a much cleaner install.
The harness is PN: 30-3813, correct? And that has the fuse block that will cover the whole car or will I need an expansion for other thigns? Have you been watching prices at all to know what is reasonable to pay?
Thanks for answering the barrage of questions

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post #21 of 128 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 01:01 AM
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That is the correct harness and it will have all the fused relays that comes with the Controls Pack PDB. So coupled with the Ron Francis harness you should be good to go.

I have been watching pricing closely. AEM just announced a sale last week coming back from PRI. They are unloading all of their harnesses for really good deals. Supposed to be good through February (while inventory lasts). As for pricing, AEM has not pushed the promo to their distributor network yet.

This harness normally sells for about $1,000 but with the sale it could be as low as $700 based on a jobber sheet I saw. See link below.

http://aemelectronics.us9.list-manag...4&e=40a3cafe6e

I've never seen these harnesses on sale so this the time to buy if interested.



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post #22 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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With the continued help of @TMScrogins (and at the same time inadvertently pulling him into a headache with CARiD's very poor handling of advertised pricing), I now have a AEM Infinity 710 and Coyote layover harness sourced from JEGS.

I was also able to take delivery of the engine I bought out of state:


My best worker has been tireless at the bench figuring things out:


I'm now trying to figure out the wiring and how the F150 engine harness compares to the crate motor harness since I know there are extra leads and connectors that exist at the moment. I'm not sure if I'll have to end up buying the crate motor engine harness or what at this point so more time will go into research.

I figure that I'll do my best to understand the wiring and electrical side while I have a complete, working engine and then do the tear down for the mechanical changes.

Also, soon I'll be posting some questions I have with the fuel system since that's all new to me to assemble from scratch.

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post #23 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 04:44 AM Thread Starter
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Here are some questions I hope one of you can answer regarding the fueling:

1. Does the Gen 3 Coupe still use the 87-93 fuel tank?

2. Is there any preference to a setup where the fuel pump is in the passenger, taller part of the tank vs. a 03+ Cobra style that has it in the thinner, yet centered position since I think the tank size and shape is still nearly identical?

3. Does anyone have experience with the Aeromotive Phantom or Phantom Flex setup? I ask because it seems to be a reasonable compromise to having a sump system. https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/phantom-flex/

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post #24 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-06-2017, 04:07 PM
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Here are some questions I hope one of you can answer regarding the fueling:

1. Does the Gen 3 Coupe still use the 87-93 fuel tank?

2. Is there any preference to a setup where the fuel pump is in the passenger, taller part of the tank vs. a 03+ Cobra style that has it in the thinner, yet centered position since I think the tank size and shape is still nearly identical?

3. Does anyone have experience with the Aeromotive Phantom or Phantom Flex setup? I ask because it seems to be a reasonable compromise to having a sump system. https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/phantom-flex/
I can give feedback on #3. When I converted my system over to run E-85, it introduced some real problems with cavitation in the fuel tank. I ultimately went with the Phantom Flex setup and it solved my problems and I never looked back. Here's a thread on some of the details.

https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...es-e-85-a.html


Trevor

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post #25 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Some updates on the fueling:
1. Factory Five tech responded on the other forum that they do use the same tank. From researching, most reproduction tanks only say they're good for up to E15 or E20. I need to see what might be needed to ensure E85 is ok in the tanks.
2. Trevor's reply basically covers this by addressing cavitation. Aeromotive also sells a A1000 pump in a 03-04 Cobra style tank that can work, but is $$$
3. I think I'll be going this setup with the reply above.

Also.... holy bundles of wires! This covers the engine harness and AEM layover.


As usual, questions at the end...
The plug on the left of the image is the one from the 2011-2014 Coyote crate motor. The one on the right is from the stock 2015 F150 engine harness. Can anyone verify if the 2015+ crate motor matches the left plug, right plug, or is a third option?


The AEM Infinity harness uses the 2011-2014 harness plug which is how I found out the difference. Ford doesn't seem to have a part number for the 2015+ crate motor harness for some reason (at least I couldn't find it).
I'll need to wire up the intake charge motion actuators somehow and figure out what the power and signal requirements will be to take advantage of them here and if I ever upgrade to the GT350 intake manifold.

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post #26 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Small update with more questions in hand. I removed the F150 harness that has a different plug setup and extra connections to the auto transmission I don't need and have replaced it with the M-12508-M50 2011-2014 Coyote crate engine harness. This will mean I'll take care of the charge motion stuff at a later time with an output on the Infinity.

I had to move what I believe is a inline capacitor to the passenger side head from the 2015 driver side position, but that was straightforward. There are a couple things I'm unsure of though:

#1 should be the oil pressure sensor plug for the Mustang, #3 and #4 are the F150 oil pressure sensor and variable sensor/solenoid for the oil cooler, but....
What does #2 go to?
What sensor is #5 with the orange wire group coming from it?

Also, what is this plug for on the driver side back of the engine for 2011-2014 crates?


Does anyone have a wiring schematic of either the 2011-2014 or 2015+ harnesses? That will keep me from having to ask all these questions here in the hope that someone might know.

Thanks in advance!

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post #27 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quick update on what I found for future reference to those looking:
#1 is the oil level sensor plug for the 2011-2014 pans and I assume 2015+ pans. The F150 pans do not appear to have this sensor for some reason.
#2 is the oil pressure sensor plug that is on the GT but not the F150 (see above post)
#3 and #4 can be easily swapped for the Mustang adapter M-6880-M501 that comes with the sensor. Alternatively a remote filter option for the second gen Coyote block.
#5 turns out to be a block heater element and plug. This was a Montana truck which explains why it was installed

I'm still struggling to find what the back plug went to. Anyone able to look at the rear of their 2011-2014 harness and install?

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post #28 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 12:10 AM
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Quick update on what I found for future reference to those looking:
#1 is the oil level sensor plug for the 2011-2014 pans and I assume 2015+ pans. The F150 pans do not appear to have this sensor for some reason.
#2 is the oil pressure sensor plug that is on the GT but not the F150 (see above post)
#3 and #4 can be easily swapped for the Mustang adapter M-6880-M501 that comes with the sensor. Alternatively a remote filter option for the second gen Coyote block.
#5 turns out to be a block heater element and plug. This was a Montana truck which explains why it was installed

I'm still struggling to find what the back plug went to. Anyone able to look at the rear of their 2011-2014 harness and install?
Regarding the 11-14 variant... My harness had a back plug like that for the EVAP purge valve (which I dieted out). On the Mustang GT it is in the front passenger side by the throttle body but on the Boss it is driver side rear just like what you are showing. Not sure where it is on the F150 manifold. Seems like it would be on the front similar to the GT manifold. It has two pins and like what you show, but because I cut mine out I can't remember what it exactly looks like. I will rummage through my electrical parts bin to see if I can find the connector I cut out to see if it is a match.

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post #29 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 01:55 AM Thread Starter
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Regaring the 11-14 variant... My harness had a back plug like that for the EVAP purge valve (which I dieted out). On the Mustang GT it is in the front passenger side by the throttle body but on the Boss it is driver side rear just like what you are showing. Not sure where it is on the F150 manifold.
I think you nailed it. Thanks!
The intake manifolds are for all intents and purposes identical except for the silver paint on the GT. I made the incorrect assumption that the crate engine wouldn't have the EVAP purge valve.

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post #30 of 128 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 03:06 AM
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I think you nailed it. Thanks!
The intake manifolds are for all intents and purposes identical except for the silver paint on the GT. I made the incorrect assumption that the crate engine wouldn't have the EVAP purge valve.
The crate motors still have the full complement of connectors, wires and sensors as the factory motors. The controls pack harness is what is dieted. Therefore a number of those connectors/sensors may exist on the engine side but are not controlled by the controls pack PCM such as the oil level sensor and the EVAP valve.

I found the connector I cut out of my harness on the engine. It appears to be the same. Also for reference the wires feeding it are light green and white/brown stripe.

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